Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true?

[Aupmanyav]

Either a summit of world leaders to change the current order to be able to deal justly with dictatorships or WW3 then a world summit to establish a new order to be able to deal with them.

The UN General Assembly met on Feb. 23 and asked the parties to resolve the dispute by negotiations. UN has done its part.

"Baháʼu'lláh was raised with no formal education but was well read and devoutly religious."

That is what the Bahais say. He may have read Persian translations of Torah, Quran and Bible. Did he read anything else? And is that reflected in his writings? What is the criteria and proof that he was well-read.

But for someone who claims to be a Prophet, the motivation behind those prophecies could be another important Criteria.

Too= me, his motivation was to establish a familial cult, a personality cult, and he succeeded in that, passing on the crown to his son and his son passed it down to his grandson. They lived happily ever after and never had to do any other work.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

It wouldn't be believable, no. This falls under 2) in my list of criteria. If a prophecy is so vague or inscrutable that no one can tell what it actually predicts, someone else doesn't get to come along later after some event happens and say, "Oh, see! This is what they meant!"

So, if some one in year 1800 says ABCD. and this same person somewhere else has said "A means year 2000" and in another place, that same Person said "B means city of new york", and in another Book he says "C means Mr. Mike", and in another place he says "D mean, Book of life:.
Then if in year 2000, in city of New york a Person by the name of Mike writes a Book called, "Book of life", this is unbelievable? Why?

 

[Left Coast]

So, if some one in year 1800 says ABCD. and this same person somewhere else has said "A means year 2000" and in another place, that same Person said "B means city of new york", and in another Book he says "C means Mr. Mike", and in another place he says "D mean, Book of life:.
Then if in year 2000, in city of New york a Person by the name of Mike writes a Book called, "Book of life", this is unbelievable? Why?

If the same person gives a clearer explanation of their earlier vague prophecy, then I'd just ignore their earlier vague prophecy and analyze what they said clearly and whether it meets the criteria. But it sounds like what you're describing is an attempt by later adherents to comb through the supposed prophet's vague statements to find a way to fit them into things that already happened.

Do you have a specific example here?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Which proved.....what?
What good did any such telling do?
Many people were probably thinking just that, just as many people have been watching Putin's moves over recent years.

The claims and tellings of Bahais that never happened just got forgotten, I expect.

It proved we needed to change, it proved we still do.

The peace and security of all humanity is unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established, that unity can never happen while the Councils given of God are passed unheeded, that is what Abdul'baha shared, but more importantly the way he lived was in Love, Peace and embracing all humanity.

The telling gives us all a fair chance of making the right choices. The rest is up to us.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You're aware other people predicted World War II as well, yes?

Are they prophets?

We have a choice to consider what those predictions offered in the way of solutions.

Did they also offer the solutions?

Also did their lives reflect the solution offered?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So far all I have seen are subjective opinions making those claims, but even were an astronomically unlikely even accurately and unequivocally predicted and then occurred, why would you assume divine agency must be involved?

That is because the peace and security of all humanity is unattainable unless and until.its unity is established.

That unity can never be found while the prerequisites to peace, that God, through the Pen of Baha’u’llah has given us, pass unheeded.

That is written into prophecy and how the future will unfold.

Regards Tony

 

[InvestigateTruth]

If the same person gives a clearer explanation of their earlier vague prophecy, then I'd just ignore their earlier vague prophecy and analyze what they said clearly and whether it meets the criteria. But it sounds like what you're describing is an attempt by later adherents to comb through the supposed prophet's vague statements to find a way to fit them into things that already happened.

Do you have a specific example here?

OK, I understood. Yes, I have a real case.
But for now Let's continue with a hypothetical example and build some agreement around that.

Let's say, there is a Person, who has followers and companions, because they think this person is very wise and intelligent.
This person says to his followers, that in my writings there are decoded information, and only those of you who truly are wise and read my Book carefully can possibly know these hidden knowledge.
He says, after I die, in future, another person comes who is also very wise, and my followers on that day are to follow him.
Then in his writings, he gives many signs, to recognize this person. As said in my example, he says ABCD...J, and each of these letters have a meaning, such as name, year of birth, year of death, name of book,..etc. But he does not say explicitly what each means, rather in his various books, he says for example A means Michael, or B mean Book of life,...
In addition to that, he also talks about another future person, and in the same manner gives signs for the second person, KLMNO...R, where each of these are also a sign, that is defined in a hidden way in his other books, in such a way, that only and only if someone truly reads and understands, can figure it out.
Then some centuries later, two people appear exactly in the year, place that was said, with exact birthday, and death time, name of books, etc.
In like manner, these two people each wrote many books, that also included prophecies of future but in a decoded way, that also came true in like manner.
So, in your opinion if all of these happend, how can we tell of it is believable or not?

 

[Left Coast]

We have a choice to consider what those predictions offered in the way of solutions.

Did they also offer the solutions?

Also did their lives reflect the solution offered?

Regards Tony

Yes, they believed the Treaty of Versailles needed different terms and that the economic struggles in Germany would pave the way for authoritarianism and further conflict.

But I'm sure you knew all that, since you have studied these issues so carefully to critically analyze the statements of the leaders of your religion.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Another Trailblazer quagmire thread. Her other thread died so she started this one to get renewed attention. Same old pattern here, she makes absurd claims, we respond with reason and facts, she denies them and makes more absurd claims, wash, rinse, repeat. Yawn. I've seen this show.

If you think Susan posts topics such as this for her own attention, you can not be more wrong.

This post is to make people aware that what is happening in the world has been given fair warning and the solutions have already been given.

How to go about it is up to all of us as a united humanity.

Regards Tony

 

[Left Coast]

OK, I understood. Yes, I have a real case.
But for now Let's continue with a hypothetical example and build some agreement around that.

That's tough to do because we're speaking in weird abstractions. Just lay it out.

Let's say, there is a Person, who has followers and companions, because they think this person is very wise and intelligent.
This person says to his followers, that in my writings there are decoded information, and only those of you who truly are wise and read my Book carefully can possibly know these hidden knowledge.

Typical mystery cult stuff, sure.

He says, after I die, in future, another person comes who is also very wise, and my followers on that day are to follow him.
Then in his writings, he gives many signs, to recognize this person. As said in my example, he says ABCD...J, and each of these letters have a meaning, such as name, year of birth, year of death, name of book,..etc. But he does not say explicitly what each means, rather in his various books, he says for example A means Michael, or B mean Book of life,...
In addition to that, he also talks about another future person, and in the same manner gives signs for the second person, KLMNO...R, where each of these are also a sign, that is defined in a hidden way in his other books, in such a way, that of someone truly reads and understand can figure it out.
Then some centuries later, two people appear exactly in the year, place that was said, with exact birthday, and death time, name of books, etc.
In like manner, these two people each wrote many books, that also included prophecies of future but in a decoded way, that also came true in like manner.
So, in your opinion if all of these happend, how can we tell of it is believable or not?

Sounds very bizarre and roundabout as a method of communication for people who supposedly have the creator of the universe whispering in their ear. Again, without you actually laying out what was said it's tough to really analyze it. My initial reaction is that it sounds rather far-fetched, though.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

That's tough to do because we're speaking in weird abstractions. Just lay it out.



Typical mystery cult stuff, sure.



Sounds very bizarre and roundabout as a method of communication for people who supposedly have the creator of the universe whispering in their ear. Again, without you actually laying out what was said it's tough to really analyze it. My initial reaction is that it sounds rather far-fetched, though.

Lets not get to divinity claims now.
But in the example, one reason could be because, if the names and birth, place, etc was told explicitly, someone could possibly kill them, so, it was kept secret. Another wisdom was that this person wants only those who truly read and thought in his books, become successful to recognize the future wise men, because this is a reward for those who truly and fairly treated his teachings. He does not want everyone to recognize them.
So, you seem doubtful, but consider the probability that something like this happens.
What I'm concluding, no matter what prophecy is fulfilled there is always room for rejecting them, or saying these are coincidence.

 

[Link]

You will have to go through Imam Mahdi (a) and his hidden forces before they hand the world over to hypocritical debauched satanic soothsayers.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

If you think Susan posts topics such as this for her own attention, you can not be more wrong.

This post is to make people aware that what is happening in the world has been given fair warning and the solutions have already been given.

How to go about it is up to all of us as a united humanity.

Regards Tony

It might be too late to save the world:

"It is too late to save the world. The Message of Baha'u'llah has been in the world over one hundred years to save mankind, but it has been rejected all over the world. The calamity will be sudden. He spoke of the American statesman from the President down, all are helpless and impotent. The United States is not now an altruistic nation. You help others to help yourselves.

The Russian submarines will paralyze Great Britain, the United States, Europe, the Atlantic, Pacific and Mediterranean seaboards."
Prophecies about the Calamity


Putin waves nuclear sword in confrontation with the West

According to some recorded saying of Baha'u'llah, He said only after this Clamity happens, people start thinking why it happend. Then the conclude it was because of prejudice, one form of which is Religion. They try to make religion disappear. But after sometime, they realize human cannot live without religious beliefs. At that time, they investigate unbiased, which religion is best. Then they choose the Faith.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It might be too late to save the world:

"It is too late to save the world. The Message of Baha'u'llah has been in the world over one hundred years to save mankind, but it has been rejected all over the world. The calamity will be sudden. He spoke of the American statesman from the President down, all are helpless and impotent. The United States is not now an altruistic nation. You help others to help yourselves.

The Russian submarines will paralyze Great Britain, the United States, Europe, the Atlantic, Pacific and Mediterranean seaboards."
Prophecies about the Calamity


Putin waves nuclear sword in confrontation with the West

According to some recorded saying of Baha'u'llah, He said only after this Clamity happens, people start thinking why it happend. Then the conclude it was because of prejudice, one form of which is Religion. They try to make religion disappear. But after sometime, they realize human cannot live without religious beliefs. At that time, they investigate unbiased, which religion is best. Then they choose the Faith.

Yes we are in dangerous times, one can still hope, but hope is definitely fading that man will not bring this destruction upon their own selves.

A friend said something interesting this morning, Putin is a dictatorship of the old world order, a mentality where it is thought war solves the problems.

Thus maybe we have to learn war does not solve anything, in any way shape or form.

May all be safe and happy, all the best to you and all, Regards Tony

 

[Left Coast]

Lets not get to divinity claims now.

The whole point of prophecy is that it is supernatural. If you claim a perfectly natural cause for accurate prediction, we're having a whole other conversation.

But in the example, one reason could be because, if the names and birth, place, etc was told explicitly, someone could possibly kill them, so, it was kept secret.

In that case we'd still need solid evidence that the alleged prophet meant what it's alleged he meant centuries after the fact.

But also, if he actually knows what will happen, not simply what might happen, then attempts to thwart that future would be irrelevant.

Another wisdom was that this person wants only those who truly read and thought in his books, become successful to recognize the future wise men, because this is a reward for those who truly and fairly treated his teachings. He does not want everyone to recognize them.

Again, that's truly bizarre. Particularly for a religion that wants everyone to be part of it. (Or don't you?)

So, you seem doubtful, but consider the probability that something like this happens.

I'm doubtful because the probability is quite low. As I'm willing to bet you yourself would determine if we were talking about alleged prophecies of prophets your religion hasn't taught you to accept as valid.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The whole point of prophecy is that it is supernatural. If you claim a perfectly natural cause for accurate prediction, we're having a whole other conversation.

Fair enough.

In that case we'd still need solid evidence that the alleged prophet meant what it's alleged he meant centuries after the fact.

But also, if he actually knows what will happen, not simply what might happen, then attempts to thwart that future would be irrelevant.

True

Again, that's truly bizarre. Particularly for a religion that wants everyone to be part of it. (Or don't you?)

Not really. The Religion itself says, otherwise. God does not want everyone, but only those who are very sincere.
Why would a self subsisting God need those who are not sincerely after Him?
He won't, right?

I'm doubtful because the probability is quite low. As I'm willing to bet you yourself would determine if we were talking about alleged prophecies of prophets your religion hasn't taught you to accept as valid.

Do you mean, the probability that something like I described happened is very low?

 

[Tiberius]

The old world order being rolled up and a new world order is rising in its stead. Not only the Baha’is but many other people have seen this process unfolding all over the world at an ever-increasing pace but it has become even more apparent now that war has broken out in the Ukraine.

Top stories

Opinion: Putin’s assault on Ukraine will shape a new world order

How Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine Could Change the Global Order Forever

China ponders how Russia’s actions in Ukraine could reshape world order

Bury the Old World Order

Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true? In the latter half of the 19th century, Baha’u’llah prophesied that what we are seeing now would take place. I believe that humans will build the new world order with the assistance of God and what was revealed by Baha’u’llah.

“Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 7

“By My Self! The day is approaching when We will have rolled up the world and all that is therein, and spread out a new order in its stead. He, verily, is powerful over all things.” Gleanings, p. 313

“The world’s equilibrium hath been upset through the vibrating influence of this most great, this new World Order. Mankind’s ordered life hath been revolutionized through the agency of this unique, this wondrous System—the like of which mortal eyes have never witnessed.” Gleanings, p. 136

The phrase "new world order" in the Baháʼí Faith refers to the replacement of the collective political norms and values of the 19th century with a new system of worldwide governance that incorporates the Baháʼí ideals of unity and justice for all nations, races, creeds, and classes. The idea of world unification, both politically and spiritually, is at the heart of Baháʼí teachings.[1][2]

Baháʼu'lláh taught that the future order will be the embodiment God's scheme for mankind.[3] Later on his successors, ʻAbdu'l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi, interpreted "unification of mankind" as the eventual establishment of a world commonwealth, later as a democratic elected world government based on principles of equity and justice.[4]

Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_world_order_(Baháʼí)

This "prophecy" about a "new world order" is vague, and thus fails point five in my list of things that a real prophecy requires (see my signature). There are dozens of things in the last century that it could equally apply to.

Really, you must try harder.

 

[Left Coast]

Not really. The Religion itself says, otherwise. God does not want everyone, but only those who are very sincere.
Why would a self subsisting God need those who are not sincerely after Him?
He won't, right?

This insinuates that people who aren't Baha'i aren't "sincere," which I find both inaccurate and offensive. Just because I don't buy what your religion is selling doesn't make me insincere.

Do you mean, the probability that something like I described happened is very low?

Yes.

 

[CG Didymus]

I guess your position as a believer may give you this platform. I am not a believer. Thus it maybe unfair for me to make skeptical remarks.

Thus, with all due respect, I withdraw from this conversation. Hope you understand.

Just so you know, I get a lot out of your comments. Not many have your knowledge and perspective.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

This insinuates that people who aren't Baha'i aren't "sincere," which I find both inaccurate and offensive. Just because I don't buy what your religion is selling doesn't make me insincere.

Baha'u'llah said we cannot judge, because no body knows their own end. He said, many times, those who say they believe, at the end loose their belief, and many of those who have not believed could even at the end of their life become believers.
It is not about one calling themselves Bahai or whatever, because some might be just imitating blindly the religion of their forefathers rather than being a sincere believer. We just cannot judge. But, overall, the Scriptures says, the purpose of God, is reward or punishment everyone according to his standards. For that reason, He has tests for each one of us, so, according to how we do with the tests, He can reward us accordingly. So, a major test, is recognition of His messengers.

Yes.

Yes, I agree has a low probability.