Are Blood Transfusions Really Life Saving?

[Shadow Wolf]

Two words: volume expander

Incase you missed it, I already posted links stating those are not suitable in all situations, and only a viable option if the patient has not lost a critical amount of blood. If you're in a trauma situation and hemorrhaging, you need blood or you're going to die, and the only viable alternatives are still human-blood based because, as of right now, there is no alternatives or substitutes for human blood.
http://www.cancer.org/treatment/tre...nd-transfusion-blood-transfusion-alternatives
Blood substitutes

So far, there is no real substitute for human blood. But researchers are working to develop a liquid that can carry oxygen and replace blood, at least for a short time, in certain situations.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

No, but consider it said.

Yes, but by you, not her.

Deeje doesn't believe in God sending people to be tormented, so it doesn't come from her.

 

[psychoslice]

Yes, but by you, not her.

Deeje doesn't believe in God sending people to be tormented, so it doesn't come from her.

The point is there are many who believe that blood transfusion is wrong in god's eyes, these are the ones my words speak to, not you.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The point is there are many who believe that blood transfusion is wrong in god's eyes, these are the ones my words speak to, not you.

Peace to you, psychoslice, always! But I have to say, I'm a Witness too, and I agree with the OP.

It is God who says it, to abstain from blood. It wasn't just in the Mosaic Law....God also told Noah. It was to apply to all of Noah's descendants. (That would be everyone, including you and me, cousin! ....lol) It was reiterated through Moses, and although the Mosaic Law was not imposed on Christians, as seen from a careful reading of many Greek (NT)Scriptures, it is clear in the discussion the Apostles had in Acts 15 (vs.28-29) that only the prohibition on blood still applied to Christians (as well as avoiding fornication.)

So, with us, it's not a health issue: rather, an obedience issue. But it serves to keep us safe and healthy.

And yes, I do go around, looking at everyone as being my cousin. Believe it or not!

Take care.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Then maybe you need a job in a university getting everyone up to date with their medical practice...

Shame on you modern medicine.

Actually, it's in the process of being done.

 

[psychoslice]

Peace to you, psychoslice, always! But I have to say, I'm a Witness too, and I agree with the OP.

It is God who says it, to abstain from blood. It wasn't just in the Mosaic Law....God also told Noah. It was to apply to all of Noah's descendants. (That would be everyone, including you and me, cousin! ....lol) It was reiterated through Moses, and although the Mosaic Law was not imposed on Christians, as seen from a careful reading of many Greek (NT)Scriptures, it is clear in the discussion the Apostles had in Acts 15 (vs.28-29) that only the prohibition on blood still applied to Christians (as well as avoiding fornication.)

So, with us, it's not a health issue: rather, an obedience issue. But it serves to keep us safe and healthy.

And yes, I do go around, looking at everyone as being my cousin. Believe it or not!

Take care.

You may believe that, but blood transfusion has helped many thousands of people who maybe dead now if not for the transfusion. I also believe that God was talking about eating the blood, how many in your church eat read meat which is blood, or cooked blood, blood is blood.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

It's interesting that JW folk conform to Bible passages they interpret as prohibiting blood transfusions, which I assume are at least the following.

Genesis 9:3-4 (KJV)
3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. 4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

Leviticus 17:10 (KJV)
10 And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people.

Acts 15:19-20 (KJV)
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Acts 15:29 (KJV)
That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

​

However, I wonder if the they also adhere to the following Biblical prohibitions.

Braided hair, gold jewelry, pearls.
1 Timothy 2:9 (KJV)
9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

Pork chops and bacon
Leviticus 11:7-8 (KJV)
7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. 8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

Remarriage
Mark 10:11–12
“Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.”

Women talking in church
1 Corinthians 14:34(KJV)
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

Linen/wool suits
Leviticus 19:19 (KJV)
19 Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.

Lobster, shrimp, oysters, clams, scallops
Leviticus11:9-10 (KJV)
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat. 10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:

Certain hair styles
Leviticus 19:27 (KJV)
27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.​

Any JW care to comment?


.

Yep, we try.....the ones that apply, that is. The Law given to Israel is not incumbent on Christians, as seen from Galatians 3 and Acts of the Apostles 15.

And our sisters do not teach in the congregations. But all this is unrelated to the OP.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It was to apply to all of Noah's descendants. (That would be everyone, including you and me, cousin! ....lol)

The laws and rules of your god do not apply to me.

 

[Olinda]

@Deeje wrote:

It was the judge's decision that the 12 year olds were mature minors who knew exactly what they were doing and were fully cognizant of the fact that death was inevitable. No amount of blood would save them. They chose not to prolong their suffering, which as a nurse you have witnessed. Chemo is devastating on an already weakened body. Sometimes these kids just don't want the suffering to go on. The children of Jehovah's witnesses do not fear death because they see beyond it.

In no way would I minimize the effects of any cancer therapy; both my partner and my niece are battling cancer. But this isn't really the point here as I understand it. If these 12 year olds were fully believing Witnesses, they would have had to refuse blood transfusions even if they could be cured by them; isn't that so?

 

[Deeje]

@Deeje wrote:

It was the judge's decision that the 12 year olds were mature minors who knew exactly what they were doing and were fully cognizant of the fact that death was inevitable. No amount of blood would save them. They chose not to prolong their suffering, which as a nurse you have witnessed. Chemo is devastating on an already weakened body. Sometimes these kids just don't want the suffering to go on. The children of Jehovah's witnesses do not fear death because they see beyond it.

In no way would I minimize the effects of any cancer therapy; both my partner and my niece are battling cancer. But this isn't really the point here as I understand it. If these 12 year olds were fully believing Witnesses, they would have had to refuse blood transfusions even if they could be cured by them; isn't that so?

As I have already mentioned, our children do not fear death because they see beyond it to a new world where there is no more death. (Revelation 21:2-5)
They have a hope that would never be compromised by disobedience to God's commands. That is what genuine faith is.....it isn't wishful thinking...it is a sure hope. (Hebrews 11:1)
The prohibition on blood was first stated to Noah, repeated in the Mosaic Law and then restated to Christians, (Acts 15:28-29) so we believe that it is more important than most any other law that Jehovah gave to humans.

For JW's there is no situation that would lead to our disobedience in this issue. As Jesus said, "...whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.  Really, what good will it do a man if he gains the whole world but loses his life? Or what will a man give in exchange for his life?"

Why would we want to save our present life through disobedience and lose the more precious life to come? This is not the life God planned for us with pain, suffering and death. This life is finite and we are all going to die someday anyway.

 

[Deeje]

The laws and rules of your god do not apply to me.

Some people may think that, but if the Creator does exist, and we believe he does, then everyone will have to account to him, whether they believe in him or not.

Pretending he is not there doesn't make him go away.

 

[psychoslice]

Some people may think that, but if the Creator does exist, and we believe he does, then everyone will have to account to him, whether they believe in him or not.

Pretending he is not there doesn't make him go away.

And pretending he is there doesn't mean he is there.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I didn't watch the video, but I respect all religious views. All I have for now is asking a question; is there a law for necessity in JW's beliefs? Like for example in Islam pork is forbidden to eat, but if one had no choice but to eat it to survive, it would be allowed to and nothing would be there against them, same for alcohol, it is allowed for medical uses.

 

[Deeje]

I didn't watch the video, but I respect all religious views. All I have for now is asking a question; is there a law for necessity in JW's beliefs? Like for example in Islam pork is forbidden to eat, but if one had no choice but to eat it to survive, it would be allowed to and nothing would be there against them, same for alcohol, it is allowed for medical uses.

If you get an opportunity to watch the video please do, it is only 5.5 mins. I can't imagine being confronted with a pork or alcohol issue would occur very often SG, but blood on the other hand is a serious issue with God. It was part of the Law of Moses.

Since God's law has no escape clauses, there is no way that we can consume blood in any way, for any reason. We believe that we can survive in most instances without the use of blood. All we need is the right doctor with the right attitude.

God's law on blood is in the Pentateuch (Lev 17:10) so I am wondering if the prohibition on blood applies in Islam?

 

[Smart_Guy]

If you get an opportunity to watch the video please do, it is only 5.5 mins. I can't imagine being confronted with a pork or alcohol issue would occur very often SG, but blood on the other hand is a serious issue with God. It was part of the Law of Moses.

Since God's law has no escape clauses, there is no way that we can consume blood in any way, for any reason. We believe that we can survive in most instances without the use of blood. All we need is the right doctor with the right attitude.

God's law on blood is in the Pentateuch (Lev 17:10) so I am wondering if the prohibition on blood applies in Islam?

Oh, I used those just as examples for allowing what forbidden due to necessity. Religions originally consider the well-being of people. I thought I didn't need to watch the video because I actually am not denying or opposing what the OP is suggesting. I can't watch it now anyway because I'm at work and it is blocked. I promise you I'll watch it at any rate when I get back home

Even if I do or don't agree that blood transfusion is good or bad, I'm not debating it, I'm on your side. I'm just asking about laws of necessity, if they exist.

Consuming blood is forbidden in Islam. Is blood in your beliefs specifically forbidden to consume, or are there other cases? In Islam it is specifically forbidden to consume only, and that means normal life consumption.

Here are some verses from the Quran allowing the consumption of the forbidden if the right necessity presents itself:

Quran 5:3
"Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than God, and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."

Quran 6:119
"And why should you not eat of that upon which the name of God has been mentioned while He has explained in detail to you what He has forbidden you, excepting that to which you are compelled. And indeed do many lead [others] astray through their [own] inclinations without knowledge. Indeed, your Lord - He is most knowing of the transgressors."

The parts in read are the excuses we follow.

So basically what my first post was all about is if maybe in your beliefs there are such pardons. Are there any? If yes, then I think blood transfusion is perhaps allowed after all in your beliefs.

Again, I'm not debating, I'm comparing mine and your beliefs, and I highly respect yours.

 

[JoStories]

It was the judge's decision that the 12 year olds were mature minors who knew exactly what they were doing and were fully cognizant of the fact that death was inevitable. No amount of blood would save them. They chose not to prolong their suffering, which as a nurse you have witnessed. Chemo is devastating on an already weakened body. Sometimes these kids just don't want the suffering to go on. The children of Jehovah's witnesses do not fear death because they see beyond it.

Can you explain to me how you can know what a child understands of death when death is so personal a concept, including what lies beyond death, if anything? No one can understand that concept the same. For me, death means a stage that is the go between for my next life. Can you prove I am wrong? Can you with 100% certainty prove that there is something beyond death? If you can, step up for that Nobel prize as no one has been able to do that as yet. and btw, a child suffering with cancer and its associated symptoms in no ways compares to a child who can be saved from death by a unit or two of PRBC. Your analogy is simply wrong.

 

[Deeje]

Oh, I used those just as examples for allowing what forbidden due to necessity. Religions originally consider the well-being of people. I thought I didn't need to watch the video because I actually am not denying or opposing what the OP is suggesting. I can't watch it now anyway because I'm at work and it is blocked. I promise you I'll watch it at any rate when I get back home

Even if I do or don't agree that blood transfusion is good or bad, I'm not debating it, I'm on your side. I'm just asking about laws of necessity, if they exist.

Consuming blood is forbidden in Islam. Is blood in your beliefs specifically forbidden to consume, or are there other cases? In Islam it is specifically forbidden to consume only, and that means normal life consumption.

Here are some verses from the Quran allowing the consumption of the forbidden if the right necessity presents itself:

Quran 5:3
"Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than God, and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."

Quran 6:119
"And why should you not eat of that upon which the name of God has been mentioned while He has explained in detail to you what He has forbidden you, excepting that to which you are compelled. And indeed do many lead [others] astray through their [own] inclinations without knowledge. Indeed, your Lord - He is most knowing of the transgressors."

The parts in read are the excuses we follow.

So basically what my first post was all about is if maybe in your beliefs there are such pardons. Are there any? If yes, then I think blood transfusion is perhaps allowed after all in your beliefs.

Again, I'm not debating, I'm comparing mine and your beliefs, and I highly respect yours.

Thank you, I look forward to your comments on the video. We have no escape clauses in the Bible. Blood is not to be taken into the body under any circumstances.

 

[Deeje]

Can you explain to me how you can know what a child understands of death when death is so personal a concept, including what lies beyond death, if anything? No one can understand that concept the same. For me, death means a stage that is the go between for my next life. Can you prove I am wrong? Can you with 100% certainty prove that there is something beyond death? If you can, step up for that Nobel prize as no one has been able to do that as yet. and btw, a child suffering with cancer and its associated symptoms in no ways compares to a child who can be saved from death by a unit or two of PRBC. Your analogy is simply wrong.

I understand your position from your medical background, but I also think that most medical personnel believe what they have been taught in medical schools. How do you know that your teachers are right about this issue? There is a lot of stubborn refusal to accept change. You have experienced this by your own admission.

I also believe that an admission of the dangers might unleash a legal backlash, to maintain the present standard may protect doctors from lawsuits.

The doctors in the video are not Mavericks, they are specialists in their field....and nothing to do with JW's. The warning is there for all to see as well as the results of the cytoscope, showing the difference between saline and whole blood and its impact on circulation and distribution of red cells. Please watch or listen to the video if you haven't already.

Now as far as the children and their personal beliefs go, as I mentioned, death to Jehovah's Witnesses is nothing more scary than going to sleep.
We have no belief in floating off somewhere after death, like the churches do. Our hope is for a future renewal of life right here on earth, under the kingdom of God. Resurrection is what is taught in scripture, not immortality of the soul. (John 5:28-29) It is just like Jesus resurrecting his friend, Lazarus. (John 11:11-14)

So our children do not fear going somewhere without their parents...they look upon death as going to sleep and waking up healthy and happy in paradise to be reunited with their family. There is nothing to fear....but something to look forward to.

Why do you keep going on about saving the child? I have mentioned many times, that we have no power under law to prevent the legal system from forcing a transfusion on our minor children, though we will do all in our power to try to prevent it.
This is why we choose our physicians carefully. Our Hospital Liaison Committee members have lists of doctors who are on board with our stance and who will operate or treat our children and ourselves without the use of blood. This saves the whole courtroom drama of taking the children out of our custody whist the medical personnel force something on them that we believe, not only breaks God's law but has been proven to be a dangerous practice.

Stubborn refusal to acknowledge the facts has in all probability cost many lives over the years......way more than those who have died for refusing blood.

 

[JoStories]

Oh, I used those just as examples for allowing what forbidden due to necessity. Religions originally consider the well-being of people. I thought I didn't need to watch the video because I actually am not denying or opposing what the OP is suggesting. I can't watch it now anyway because I'm at work and it is blocked. I promise you I'll watch it at any rate when I get back home

Even if I do or don't agree that blood transfusion is good or bad, I'm not debating it, I'm on your side. I'm just asking about laws of necessity, if they exist.

Consuming blood is forbidden in Islam. Is blood in your beliefs specifically forbidden to consume, or are there other cases? In Islam it is specifically forbidden to consume only, and that means normal life consumption.

Here are some verses from the Quran allowing the consumption of the forbidden if the right necessity presents itself:

Quran 5:3
"Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than God, and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."

Quran 6:119
"And why should you not eat of that upon which the name of God has been mentioned while He has explained in detail to you what He has forbidden you, excepting that to which you are compelled. And indeed do many lead [others] astray through their [own] inclinations without knowledge. Indeed, your Lord - He is most knowing of the transgressors."

The parts in read are the excuses we follow.

So basically what my first post was all about is if maybe in your beliefs there are such pardons. Are there any? If yes, then I think blood transfusion is perhaps allowed after all in your beliefs.

Again, I'm not debating, I'm comparing mine and your beliefs, and I highly respect yours.

you make compelling and cogent points Smart Guy...and btw..I have missed you dear one. How are things with you and yours? I suspect, however, that Deeje will tell you that there are no exceptions allowed within the laws of the LDS views. As a medical practitioner, it is not something that I understand, particularly when it comes to children not being given blood when it would save their lives. I have no issue with adults refusing, although clearly I disagree and strongly so. But as you point out for your faith and btw...I just love learning more about the faith of Islam from you. You present so well and without rancor or the dark things that ISIS represents. Anyway, that little segue aside, as you point out for your faith, there are times when the laws of Islam may be set aside, albeit very unusual situations, or at least, hopefully unusual.

 

[JoStories]

The last thing a person who has had a terrible accident and lost most of their blood, needs a god looking down and wanting to send you to hell for having a blood transfusion, lets get real.

I agree with you Psycho. I cannot comprehend God sending a person to hell for getting a life saving procedure. Of course, I don't believe in hell so that tempers my views a bit. What I don't understand is a religion that believes that all life is sacred and some; such as Catholic lore, that believe that suicide is a sure way to this hell, would state that the refusal of blood to save that life is against what God would want for us. That, for me, makes no sense.