Deeje, you are like a dog with a bone with this video. There are very few posts where you do not repeatedly state to watch. We are past that now. Either we watched it or we didn't. Can we move on to the discussion of what the video had to say? Now, that said, how can you say to Smart Guy that his potentially having to eat pork, etc, is any less difficult than you getting blood? If for Smart Guy and the faith of Islam is a serious part of that faith how is that any less or more than your beliefs about blood? You seem to state that your blood issue is more important to God somehow. God's alleged laws seem to vary greatly depending on what branch of Christianity one adheres to. For example, the admonition about suicide with Catholics, the overt hatred of gays by many more rigid Protestant branches, your views on blood, etc. Are these all true? Are these all what God wants? And who decides which one truly comes from God? The passages that relate to your views on blood are from the OT. Do you see Jews who choose to receive blood as being damned or not adhering to the laws of God? Are you really willing to say that all Jews have it wrong and only you have it right??
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Are Blood Transfusions Really Life Saving?
- Thread starter Deeje
- Start date
Deeje, you are like a dog with a bone with this video. There are very few posts where you do not repeatedly state to watch. We are past that now. Either we watched it or we didn't. Can we move on to the discussion of what the video had to say? Now, that said, how can you say to Smart Guy that his potentially having to eat pork, etc, is any less difficult than you getting blood? If for Smart Guy and the faith of Islam is a serious part of that faith how is that any less or more than your beliefs about blood? You seem to state that your blood issue is more important to God somehow. God's alleged laws seem to vary greatly depending on what branch of Christianity one adheres to. For example, the admonition about suicide with Catholics, the overt hatred of gays by many more rigid Protestant branches, your views on blood, etc. Are these all true? Are these all what God wants? And who decides which one truly comes from God? The passages that relate to your views on blood are from the OT. Do you see Jews who choose to receive blood as being damned or not adhering to the laws of God? Are you really willing to say that all Jews have it wrong and only you have it right??
How do you know yours views are right? Giving blood to save lives can be proven scientifically. The notion of life after death or even your waiting for paradise cannot be proven but can only be believed. What if you are wrong?
Again, how do you know this? Have you proven this scientifically? It is mere belief and most children would much rather live and breathe and play with their friends than die. I would suggest you do a study where you ask a group of children, of any and all faiths, what they would prefer.
Because saving the life of that child trumps your letting them die for your beliefs which may or may not be true every single solitary time. There are NO beliefs that trump saving the life of a child. Not one.
Aquitaine
Well-Known Member
Gloating about how the JW's position was right all along, which it isn't, but that is what I suspect her intentions to be.
Hello again
Okay, I watched the video. I noticed that the emphasis is on "risk", not the existence of harms in the very nature of blood transfusion that tells us it 100% negative. Risk is a fact when it comes to medical practices, but that does not mean we should allow certain deaths to happen without trying to do something about it and stand there watching as long as there is even the slightest possibility of success. The video does not seem to call for halting that practice right away, it rather calls for finding better alternatives to clear as much risks as possible after finding many risks, and that makes complete sense. Any better alternatives are always the best choice to move to.
I wouldn't call them "escape clauses", as when an act that happens to be forbidden is done due to necessity, it would be done for the purpose of covering up for that necessity, not finding a way around to enjoy that forbidden act. I'd call it exceptional necessary pardons/permissions.
I ask of you to please look deeper in your beliefs. I have a strong feeling there are exceptions due to necessity. I can't believe God allows misfortune to fall upon us in cases we have no choice in, in which our lives are at known risk. I understand that if an adult chooses to not undergo blood transfusion refuses to have it, but I this it would not be fair to those who are not mature enough to understand the gravity of the situation they are in if their lives are at risk. I believe that God would never allow that. We are talking about life and death here.
Perhaps answering my question from my previous post could help you in this:
By asking that, I'm trying to find possibilities that your belief could actually have no problems with blood transfusion. Could you please refer to the verse that forbids using blood? I have a feeling that between the lines, it is just about dietary teachings only.
Oh gosh... it is so very nice of you checking on this insignificant one. All is well here (except for not receiving salary for 6 month now
). I hope everything is good with you too, JS. Really thank you for asking Yes, I agree with you completely. Even I encourage Muslims to disregard Islamic laws if the right necessity is there. Laws in Islam can be completely disregarded as long as valid pressing necessity presents itself, and in our discussion here that's medical necessity. Islam even encourages one to take those pardons of disregarding the laws, even tho if they were not taken, more credit will be given. But it does give a complete choice in making the decision. Prophet Muhammad did say that God loves it when His pardons are taken.
I'm doing my best in representing my beliefs the way I see right, ma'am. I'm glad to see it is bearing fruits
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Perhaps not but let me ask you this. Have you seen someone who has lost a significant amount of their blood volume? I can tell you that it has significant symptoms that are not pleasant and could be seen as tormenting. There is significant lethargy. Confusion. Weakness. As the blood loss becomes more profound, organs begin to shut down, including the kidneys, the peripheral blood supply causing the extremities to ache and be extremely cold, the liver, the brain, and so on. Perhaps you think this is pleasant but I can assure you it is not.
How is a child dying of a severe liver lac not a health issue? And how in the world is that considered healthy??
I am so sorry to hear that you are not being paid dear one. That must be very hard and frustrating. I pray you are able to get enough to eat and the like.Oh gosh... it is so very nice of you checking on this insignificant one. All is well here (except for not receiving salary for 6 month now
Yes, I agree with you completely. Even I encourage Muslims to disregard Islamic laws if the right necessity is there. Laws in Islam can be completely disregarded as long as valid pressing necessity presents itself, and in our discussion here that's medical necessity. Islam even encourages one to take those pardons of disregarding the laws, even tho if they were not taking, more credit will be given. But it does give a completely choice in making the decision. Prophet Muhammad did say that God loves it when His pardons are taken.
I'm doing my best in representing my beliefs the way I see right, ma'am. I'm glad to see it is bearing fruits
As for how you represent your faith, I cannot think of a more peaceable and loving example of Islam. You, IMO, live and breathe what Mohammed (PBUH) taught. I would be very proud of you my friend. and how I truly wish that all of Islam and Christianity could be as kind hearted as you and set the examples of what Mohammed (PBUH) and Christ taught. Alas, dear one, people like to fight and religion is one of those things that people like to fight over the most. Perhaps in our next lives, we will see this peace come to fruition.
I understand and respect that you believe this. You, I would hope, would understand that I don't believe, 1. That God has a gender, and 2. that God is so limited that God cannot be the God of all faiths. You are free to believe as you wish but I choose to see God as bigger than your faith seems to intimate.Some people may think that, but if the Creator does exist, and we believe he does, then everyone will have to account to him, whether they believe in him or not.
Pretending he is not there doesn't make him go away.
I am so sorry to hear that you are not being paid dear one. That must be very hard and frustrating. I pray you are able to get enough to eat and the like.
As for how you represent your faith, I cannot think of a more peaceable and loving example of Islam. You, IMO, live and breathe what Mohammed (PBUH) taught. I would be very proud of you my friend. and how I truly wish that all of Islam and Christianity could be as kind hearted as you and set the examples of what Mohammed (PBUH) and Christ taught. Alas, dear one, people like to fight and religion is one of those things that people like to fight over the most. Perhaps in our next lives, we will see this peace come to fruition.
I'm living with my parents and not married. My savings with my budget expending, I think I can manage until things improve
I'm optimistic. Hopefully one day everyone will put aside their differences and hold hands. I'm personally working on that. God bless, ma'am
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Yikes! Deeje isn't LDS; she's a Jehovah's Witness.
I don't know which of us would find that particular mix-up most offensive. 
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Your god isn't the only one known as "creator." Those rules, those laws, those ways, they do not apply to me.Some people may think that, but if the Creator does exist, and we believe he does, then everyone will have to account to him, whether they believe in him or not.
Pretending he is not there doesn't make him go away.
I wrote that in the early morning before coffee. I meant no offense nor would I ever. Mea culpa on the mixup but I promise you, it was just that. If someone finds that offensive, I am sorry but really.. its not like its a huge thing.Yikes! Deeje isn't LDS; she's a Jehovah's Witness.
Excellent question, SG!
Simply put, Revelation 2:10 (the last part) would apply to us. As Deeje stated, this life (in this System) is not the only one, in which we will probably die anyways. The next one --.when most humans will be resurrected -- will afford them the chance for everlasting life!
I think it necessary to bring this to your attention: you wrote, "They have a hope that would never be compromised by disobedience to God's commands." You meant it "would never be compromised by obedience to God's commands", right?
Thank you for the heads up, HC. I think that verse could be about certain death, not possible deaths that have chances to avoid like accidents causing sever loss of blood. I think it is about death in a general sense as it come upon us. What do you think? If there are verses about not killing oneself or doing it harm intentionally, or other verses with details related to death, then I think those verses could govern this one. As I believe, Abrahamic religions have their scriptures as whole units with different constituents (verses) complimenting each other (within individual religions I mean) and non should be taken individually. You know of any such verses if they exist?
Olinda
Member
Deeje, I've already posted that your religion previously forbade accepting organ transplants. Then that was changed to a 'personal conscience decision'. yet in the meantime, jws had died from renal failure and other conditions, in obedience to an interpretation that was later reversed.
What if the interpretation on blood transfusions is changed in the future? You are currently allowed to take most blood fractions, which is already difficult to reconcile with 'abstaining from blood' as you understand it. Will the deaths that have resulted over the years have been in vain? will the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society be safe from lawsuits of bereaved families?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Don't worry about it, Jo. I was just giving you a bad time.
LOL
it's a "never the twain shall meet" kind of mix up. LDS and JW's are polar opposites in their belief systems. The only thing we have in common is door knocking apparently.
@Olinda
You said...."Deeje, I've already posted that your religion previously forbade accepting organ transplants. Then that was changed to a 'personal conscience decision'. yet in the meantime, jws had died from renal failure and other conditions, in obedience to an interpretation that was later reversed."
Might I remind you that early on in organ transplantation, there were a lot of failures due to it being a new medical procedure. As time and techniques were refined, and knowledge increased, the success rates climbed and rejection rates fell. Have you seen what "Graft Verses Host Disease" can do?
"If you have an allogeneic stem cell transplant or a reduced-intensity allogeneic transplant, you're at high risk of developing graft versus host disease (GVHD). In fact, the older the person, the higher the risk for GVHD.
GVHD develops when the donor's immune cells mistakenly attack the patient's normal cells. GVHD can be mild, moderate or severe — even life threatening. Its symptoms can include:
GVHD can be acute or chronic. Its severity depends on the differences in tissue type between patient and donor. The older the patient, the more frequent and serious the reaction may be
Chronic GVHD usually occurs at about three months post-transplant, although in some cases it may not develop for a year or more after the transplant..
symptoms.... may include one or more of the following:
https://www.lls.org/treatment/types-of-treatment/stem-cell-transplantation/graft-versus-host-disease
I am grateful to my brothers for not rushing into this without due regard for its efficacy and compatibility with Bible principles. As we have said many times now, we do not fear death, so making a fuss about dying is pointless if we are all going to die sooner or later anyway. We love life, but it is the life to come that is way more important to us than living in this poor excuse for an existence. If I could stop the world, I would want to get off. I hate what humans are doing to each other and to the planet itself. Dying would actually be a big relief for many. There are much worse things than dying.
God's law on blood has been around since the days of Noah. It remains unchanged to this day. Blood is sacred to God and he forbids its consumption in any manner. Christians are told to "abstain from blood" and to refrain from eating unbled meat. These two commands were part of a short list of "necessary things" required for all Christians. Both pertained to the consumption of blood. (Acts 15:28, 29) God doesn't change his mind on something this important to him.
Blood fractions are also relatively new on the scene. Research has shown us that many of these fractions are passed naturally from mother to child in the womb, despite the fact that their blood is often a completely different blood group and can be missing factors that the mother's blood possesses. (e.g. the RH factor)
Since I am sure there will be many more who die in spite of receiving a blood transfusion, than those who die from refusing one, I believe many doctors should be sued for damages for giving patients unnecessary blood transfusion, and putting them at risk for no good reason. The studies revealed that almost 60% of them were not appropriate. Only 12% were considered necessary. What is that telling you?
You said...."Deeje, I've already posted that your religion previously forbade accepting organ transplants. Then that was changed to a 'personal conscience decision'. yet in the meantime, jws had died from renal failure and other conditions, in obedience to an interpretation that was later reversed."
Might I remind you that early on in organ transplantation, there were a lot of failures due to it being a new medical procedure. As time and techniques were refined, and knowledge increased, the success rates climbed and rejection rates fell. Have you seen what "Graft Verses Host Disease" can do?
"If you have an allogeneic stem cell transplant or a reduced-intensity allogeneic transplant, you're at high risk of developing graft versus host disease (GVHD). In fact, the older the person, the higher the risk for GVHD.
GVHD develops when the donor's immune cells mistakenly attack the patient's normal cells. GVHD can be mild, moderate or severe — even life threatening. Its symptoms can include:
- Rashes, which include burning and redness, that erupt on the palms or soles and may spread to the trunk and eventually to the entire body
- Blistering, causing the exposed skin surface to flake off in severe cases
- Nausea, vomiting, abdominal cramps, diarrhea and loss of appetite, which can indicate that the gastrointestinal (digestive) tract is affected
- Jaundice, or a yellowing of the skin, which can indicate that your liver is damaged
- Excessive dryness of the mouth and throat, leading to ulcers
- Dryness of the lungs, vagina and other surfaces
GVHD can be acute or chronic. Its severity depends on the differences in tissue type between patient and donor. The older the patient, the more frequent and serious the reaction may be
Chronic GVHD usually occurs at about three months post-transplant, although in some cases it may not develop for a year or more after the transplant..
symptoms.... may include one or more of the following:
- Patches of skin may be lost.
- Skin color may deepen and texture may become hard.
- The skin may heal by scarring, causing the motion of nearby joints, such as the fingers, to become restricted.
- Hair loss may accompany skin injury.
- The drying and scarring effects of the attack by the donor cells can affect the inside of the mouth and the esophagus (from the throat to the stomach), causing them to become excessively dry and damaged. This reaction can result in ulcers.
- The tendency to drying can lead to loss of tear formation and general eye redness and irritation. Dryness of the vagina and other surfaces may also occur.
- The lungs may also show effects of drying and scarring.
- Liver injury can result in liver failure and diminished bile flow.
- Bile may back up into the blood and cause jaundice.
https://www.lls.org/treatment/types-of-treatment/stem-cell-transplantation/graft-versus-host-disease
I am grateful to my brothers for not rushing into this without due regard for its efficacy and compatibility with Bible principles. As we have said many times now, we do not fear death, so making a fuss about dying is pointless if we are all going to die sooner or later anyway. We love life, but it is the life to come that is way more important to us than living in this poor excuse for an existence. If I could stop the world, I would want to get off. I hate what humans are doing to each other and to the planet itself. Dying would actually be a big relief for many. There are much worse things than dying.
God's law on blood has been around since the days of Noah. It remains unchanged to this day. Blood is sacred to God and he forbids its consumption in any manner. Christians are told to "abstain from blood" and to refrain from eating unbled meat. These two commands were part of a short list of "necessary things" required for all Christians. Both pertained to the consumption of blood. (Acts 15:28, 29) God doesn't change his mind on something this important to him.
Blood fractions are also relatively new on the scene. Research has shown us that many of these fractions are passed naturally from mother to child in the womb, despite the fact that their blood is often a completely different blood group and can be missing factors that the mother's blood possesses. (e.g. the RH factor)
Since I am sure there will be many more who die in spite of receiving a blood transfusion, than those who die from refusing one, I believe many doctors should be sued for damages for giving patients unnecessary blood transfusion, and putting them at risk for no good reason. The studies revealed that almost 60% of them were not appropriate. Only 12% were considered necessary. What is that telling you?