Are homophobes born that way?

[Pah]

What provides the motivation and thought process for the homophobic. Is it generic or, as Skinner says, a product of environment? If it is environmental, is the learning place a form of religious morality?

 

[michel]

What provides the motivation and thought process for the homophobic. Is it generic or, as Skinner says, a product of environment? If it is environmental, is the learning place a form of religious morality?

I think it is probably made up from a mixture of all those componenents - and maybe others. Sex is taboo enough without having to try and understand what feels totally incomprehensible to society. I would love to write more, but my bed is calling to me..........

 

[Sunstone]

Certainly, some of it is learned. And some religious writings might be great enablers of homophobia.

Goodnight, Michel

 

[turk179]

I believe it is a product of education. Both from the parental aspect and the religious aspect, which when a child is growing up can be the same thing.

 

[SoliDeoGloria]

why can't it be innate. Isn't everything else? What more could we want? Then the nose pickers and bed wetters and everybody else can say "hey, lighten up, I was born this way." So much for all that "free will" garbage, eh?

Sincerely,
SoliDeoGloria

 

[Green Gaia]

No. They are bred by fear, hatred, ignorance and a lack of compassion. No innocent child is born that way. They are taught to hate.

I cannot blame religion for this hate. Although people with anti-gay agendas will distort their religious doctrines to justify their homophobia, those same religions overwhelmingly teach love. But the homophobe has has so much hate in him and so little compassion, that message of love is lost.

In my opinion, in religious morality there is no room for hate. The person has already been taught that hate and fed lies, by their parents, friends, society... then they use their religion as an excuse for the hate and lies. Like that somehow makes it OK.

 

[turk179]

why can't it be innate. Isn't everything else? What more could we want? Then the nose pickers and bed wetters and everybody else can say "hey, lighten up, I was born this way." So much for all that "free will" garbage, eh?

Sincerely,
SoliDeoGloria

When a child is very young and comes across a poisonous snake they have no fear of that snake until they are taught to fear it either by experience or by education. I am not comparing homosexuals with snakes. The only comparison here is how fear is created.

 

[Pah]

why can't it be innate. Isn't everything else? What more could we want? Then the nose pickers and bed wetters and everybody else can say "hey, lighten up, I was born this way." So much for all that "free will" garbage, eh?

Sincerely,
SoliDeoGloria

Actually "nose picking" is inate - it goes along with infant facsination of his or her body. Bed wetting, I believe is a manifestation of environment.

"Free will" doesn't seem to apply to homophobia - well, at least I can't imagine someone chosing to be hateful

 

[Pah]

No. They are bred by fear, hatred, ignorance and a lack of compassion. No innocent child is born that way. They are taught to hate.

I cannot blame religion for this hate. Although people with anti-gay agendas will distort their religious doctrines to justify their homophobia, those same religions overwhelmingly teach love. But the homophobe has has so much hate in him and so little compassion, that message of love is lost.

In my opinion, in religious morality there is no room for hate. The person has already been taught that hate and fed lies, by their parents, friends, society... then they use their religion as an excuse for the hate and lies. Like that somehow makes it OK.

Do you also think that homophobia, for some, is a reaction to homosexual urges? Would "social norms" created by religious dictates influence the revulsion that produces homophobia?


Anybody?

 

[standing_on_one_foot]

The motives behind it are grounded in human nature, so in that sense it's innate, but the specific manifestation certainly isn't innate, only the inclination. Anyways, people can change.

 

[SoliDeoGloria]

Actually "nose picking" is inate - it goes along with infant facsination of his or her body. Bed wetting, I believe is a manifestation of environment.

"Free will" doesn't seem to apply to homophobia - well, at least I can't imagine someone chosing to be hateful

With all these exceptions to the whole philosophy of "free will", the next question then becomes where does "free will" apply? What I love about the subject matter is that it seems that the only time somebody wants to use the phrase "free will" is when they want to take credit for something they do but when they have a problem with something, all of a sudden it's innate and can't be helped. There seems to be more than a purely objective motive behind this subject matter. Comes across more like human pride to me.

I cannot blame religion for this hate. Although people with anti-gay agendas will distort their religious doctrines to justify their homophobia, those same religions overwhelmingly teach love. But the homophobe has has so much hate in him and so little compassion, that message of love is lost.

In my opinion, in religious morality there is no room for hate. The person has already been taught that hate and fed lies, by their parents, friends, society... then they use their religion as an excuse for the hate and lies. Like that somehow makes it OK.

I must confess that I love that answer!!!

Do you also think that homophobia, for some, is a reaction to homosexual urges? Would "social norms" created by religious dictates influence the revulsion that produces homophobia?

I don't doubt that to be true for one minute although I think we will see that starting to change if the social view of homosexuality keeps going the trend it is going. Like that old cliche goes "Give them an inch and they'll take a mile"

Sincerely,
SoliDeoGloria

 

[turk179]

The motives behind it are grounded in human nature, so in that sense it's innate, but the specific manifestation certainly isn't innate, only the inclination. Anyways, people can change.

The only motive behind homophobia that is grounded in human nature is fear itself. And the only way you can become afraid of something is through experience or education IMO.

 

[SoliDeoGloria]

When a child is very young and comes across a poisonous snake they have no fear of that snake until they are taught to fear it either by experience or by education. I am not comparing homosexuals with snakes. The only comparison here is how fear is created.

Do you have any children? I have four boys so let me give you an example. My oldest was deathly afraid of dirt when he was very young before he could even walk and it lasted for a while. No matter how much I try to tell my boys not to be afraid of lightning, they are still afraid of it. Can you explain that?

Sincerely,
SoliDeogloria

 

[Katzpur]

What provides the motivation and thought process for the homophobic. Is it generic or, as Skinner says, a product of environment? If it is environmental, is the learning place a form of religious morality?

I think you know the answer to that question, Pah. Nobody is born a bigot. We all learn to hate from the people around us. Some people are just exceptional learners.

 

[turk179]

Do you have any children? I have four boys so let me give you an example. My oldest was deathly afraid of dirt when he was very young before he could even walk and it lasted for a while. No matter how much I try to tell my boys not to be afraid of lightning, they are still afraid of it. Can you explain that?

Sincerely,
SoliDeogloria

Yes I do. You have a good point but I am assuming that your son didn't even know what dirt was until he experienced it for the first time and touched it. Were they afraid of lightning before or after they experienced it for the first time. I am going to guess that they were not afraid of lightning until they heard their first huge crash. How do you explain a childs curious nature to touch even the most dangerous of objects.
To translate this back to topic, how many toddlers do you know of that walk around bashing gays because they are afraid of them. Did my daughter have an innate fear of gays when she was born because she could just tell that they had sex with the same gender?
Ummm, I guess I better answer that question . No, she did not.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Nobody is born a bigot. We all learn to hate from the people around us.

That is, of course, the politically correct (and even functionally correct) response, but I suspect that the truth is more nuanced. So, for example, while hate must be taught, we may be prediposed to some hatreds, rendering such hatreds easier to learn than others.

 

[standing_on_one_foot]

The only motive behind homophobia that is grounded in human nature is fear itself. And the only way you can become afraid of something is through experience or education IMO.

Yes, that was rather the motive I was referring to. I see your point about not being afraid of something until you experience it (if I don't know it exists, I won't be afraid of it specifically, after all). But being afraid of what you don't understand once you've experienced it is about as human as ya get. I'm not saying homophobia's right, mind you. I'm just saying that it comes from human nature (like, basically, most things we do and feel). Not saying human nature's bad either, just that bad stuff can arise from it. Mind, what people do with their inclinations is up to them, so I'd say only the potential for homophobia's innate.

Wow, I was rambling. I can't quite remember my point now

 

[turk179]

Yes, that was rather the motive I was referring to. I see your point about not being afraid of something until you experience it (if I don't know it exists, I won't be afraid of it specifically, after all). But being afraid of what you don't understand once you've experienced it is about as human as ya get. I'm not saying homophobia's right, mind you. I'm just saying that it comes from human nature (like, basically, most things we do and feel). Not saying human nature's bad either, just that bad stuff can arise from it. Mind, what people do with their inclinations is up to them, so I'd say only the potential for homophobia's innate.

Wow, I was rambling. I can't quite remember my point now

I agree with you as far as that it might be human nature to fear something that they don't understand. Where as it is my point that if something is not understood, education and experience could be used to improve on the lack of understanding as well as being a factor of the lack of understanding in the first place.
Remind me not to answer posts that end in "Wow, I was rambling." it's infectious . Just Kidding .

 

[CaptainXeroid]

'Are homophobes born that way?' I would say yes in a way, if we take homophobe to mean fear of homosexuals. I think many people's natural reaction is to fear that which is different...particularly things they don't understand. My observation has been that for many 'homophobes', it has nothing to do with religion but rather a fear of the unknown.

Most of the people I know who have a religious objection to homosexual behaviour recite the adage 'Hate the sin, love the sinner.' and believe that they are trying to save people's souls by telling them that 'God does not approve of homosexual behaviour.' Unfortunately, many of these people forgot to read the parts in which Jesus instructs us to 'love one another' and he 'came not to judge the world'. I don't think they are bad people. Some of them are a bit overzealous in trying to do what they think is right.

Like with most irrational fears, the way to combat them is familiarity. I would bet that most 'homophobes' do not actually know any homosexuals on a first name basis. Once people get to know other people they find it difficult to fear an abstract concept.

 

[Katzpur]

That is, of course, the politically correct (and even functionally correct) response, but I suspect that the truth is more nuanced. So, for example, while hate must be taught, we may be prediposed to some hatreds, rendering such hatreds easier to learn than others.

Do you think so? Which ones do you think we're predisposed to?

By the way, if I was politically correct, it was entirely accidental. I just have a hugely negative bias concerning bigotry of any kind.