Are Homosexuals going to Hell?

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Would you like homosexuals and those others to go to hell? Would you abhor it, or would you be merely indifferent, accepting "God's judgement?"

Is it a sin to deny the sexual act that perpetuates the species, and instead live a life where sexual hedonism is openly embraced for pure enjoyment?

If it is, then it equally as large a sin to enjoy the sexual act when you are no longer fertile, since that also cannot perpetuate the species. So, over childbearing-age women should and must desist, and their husbands just "get used to it." (And no self-pleasuring, either, you old geezers!)

And to what extent are the machinations of demons (if you believe in their influence) to be blamed or mitigated against?

They only exist for the sole purpose of trying to excuse our own failings. You know, as in "the Devil made me do it!"

 

[Grumpuss]

Yup. And, for me, staying the course with god would have been easier, and certainly safer, but the right was for me to move on away from god and abandon hope of the "normal" life. It's not easy when you realize you pretty much have to carve out your own path in life (and not just talk about doing it), but sometimes death is preferable to the safe and easy thing to do.

Very true. And for some cowards, death IS the easy way out.

 

[Grumpuss]

Would you like homosexuals and those others to go to hell? Would you abhor it, or would you be merely indifferent, accepting "God's judgement?"

I think I've made my position on that quite clear, all the way back in Post #1.

If it is, then it equally as large a sin to enjoy the sexual act when you are no longer fertile, since that also cannot perpetuate the species. So, over childbearing-age women should and must desist, and their husbands just "get used to it." (And no self-pleasuring, either, you old geezers!)

Well, there is the idea of influencing others into a bad act. Russia has a law banning gay propaganda. The United States (and many other countries) prosecute both conspiracy crimes and hate-crimes.

I don't know that I would consider the existence of such people or the promulgation of such lifestyle philosophies to be "equally as large a sin" though.

They only exist for the sole purpose of trying to excuse our own failings. You know, as in "the Devil made me do it!"

Or, it could be both!

 

[Kemosloby]

Since the law was given so that people would know they are sinners, people who refuse God refuse to call a sin a sin. Since we're all sinners, those who refuse to be humbled and call themselves sinners could be the ones to proud to seek a savior and be saved.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Look, these practices exist:

What It’s Like to Date a Horse
Denmark's Bestiality Problem: It's Legal
Zoophilia and the law - Wikipedia
Dendrophilia (paraphilia) - Wikipedia

I didn't invent such things. All I said was that presumably, some large portion of such groups believe in a higher power. Whether or not they think they're doing anything "wrong" or deviant, do you think they're going to their (or your own) version of Hell?

While it's pretty obvious that one can find anything on the internet, I find one thing quite curious -- it would never occur to me to look any of these things up. What do you think prompted you to do so?

 

[Father Heathen]

Inevitably, some people will choose what is easy over what is right.
Good point.

Like wallowing in willful ignorance, unsubstantiated superstition, and irrational bigotry rather than having their views potentially threatened by taking the effort to actually listen, learn, and understand the world outside their own little bubble.

 

[Grumpuss]

While it's pretty obvious that one can find anything on the internet, I find one thing quite curious -- it would never occur to me to look any of these things up. What do you think prompted you to do so?

No great mystery. In this instance, it was A Vestigial Mote's suggestion that it could be a fabrication.

So how long have you been curious about these things?

 

[Father Heathen]

Since the law was given so that people would know they are sinners, people who refuse God refuse to call a sin a sin. Since we're all sinners, those who refuse to be humbled and call themselves sinners could be the ones to proud to seek a savior and be saved.

Or perhaps people simply aren't convinced that the self-appointed and self-serving middlemen who presume to speak on god's behalf are actually valid or legitimate. You can't really fault people for using their ability to reason to conclude that goofy garbage is goofy garbage.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

No great mystery. In this instance, it was A Vestigial Mote's suggestion that it could be a fabrication.

So how long have you been curious about these things?

Excuse me, but that was an attempted smear. I did NOT say I was "curious about these things." I said I was curious about why you were.

 

[Father Heathen]

anything deviating from the normal paths of nature is odd and abnormal and not right.

Like religion, technology, eye glasses, etc?

 

[LuisDantas]

It is a shame that there are still people who even consider calling homosexuality (or transexuality, bisexuality, etc) "sinful".

 

[BSM1]

As many homosexual men and women, as well as those who are transsexual, bisexual, have relations with animals and plants, it is entirely possible, even likely that many of them maintain a personal belief in God. They may even form a devout connection to their divine gods, though it may not necessarily involve the same acceptance or repugnance you feel at learning of such lifestyles.

How one conducts himself/herself in life would therefore follow some kind of path to salvation, whether it be an Abrahamic God, Hindu pantheon, Buddhist spirit, etc. It would follow for those believers who are not living gods, that the rules were designed by others and we can not rewrite them to suit our own subject experience of judgment of ourselves. Being good and chaste and procreating as we are told the god(s) of our faith want can and will clash against what many consider to be impure, disgusting, abominable and a sin against nature. While we hope and expect we have kind and merciless deities to at least partially absolve us when mental derangement is a mitigating factor, what is the effect upon our immortal souls and/or spiritual afterlife when we consciously make deviant choices that are offensive to the faiths?

He's with the angels now?

Please know that what one religion may consider foul and sin-worthy can be quite different than what another may consider tolerable. I am not looking for any rants explaining why one religion's worldview is superior to all others, or how unreasonable or immoral you may personally consider the habits of heathens to be. It's always complicated. Myself, I believe this is a question left up to God to judge who shall be rewarded with bliss and who is damned. To pass judgment on others for what happens in the afterlife, is to speak for God, and is a sin. But we can of course keep asking questions and try to live well, free from chaos.

Is it a sin to deny the sexual act that perpetuates the species, and instead live a life where sexual hedonism is openly embraced for pure enjoyment? And to what extent are the machinations of demons (if you believe in their influence) to be blamed or mitigated against?

Worse...Detroit! (Just kidding, R)

and Chevrolet exhaust pipes.

Oh, no you din't! Now I can never tell someone that my car can blow yours off the road.

 

[Father Heathen]

It is a shame that there are still people who even consider calling homosexuality (or transexuality, bisexuality, etc) "sinful".

Let's not forget that it's also "sinful" to wear mixed fabrics, eat pork or shrimp, to speak to menstruating women, to rotate crops, etc. but it's acceptable to sell one's own daughter into sexual slavery (Exodus 21:7-11). It's also required that rape victims marry their assailant, and brides are to be stoned to death if they're discovered to not be virgins.

Seriously though, it is rather perplexing that people still insist on using this sort of garbage as a moral compass in a modern, civilized world.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It is a shame that there are still people who even consider calling homosexuality (or transexuality, bisexuality, etc) "sinful".

A lot of people have nothing better to do. I don't like being rude, but I think education may help a bit. Many people may understand homosexual behavior as a sin. Anyone can do that. When you attack homosexuality, you're attacking the individual. That's the problem not the behavior.

Don't know if they can tell the difference.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@Grumpuss

Do you have evidence that homosexuality as a sexual orientation is a sin?

We know that the behavior is condemned. That's not the issue. Heterosexuals had a lot worse sex crimes in the bible than being with someone of their own gender.

We know two people of the same gender can't marry according to the bible. It doesn't refer to sexual orientation; so, heterosexuals are included in this rule too.

Where does the bible talk about the LGBTQ people specifically?

The only way, according to some christianity, homosexuals will go to hell is if they haven't accept jesus as their lord and savior or taken the sacraments of christ. Their sexual orientation has nothing to do with it.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

What the hell does being LGBT have to do with zoophilia and such? You just randomly threw a bunch of things together.

C'mon, Frankie...you don't really think that was 'random' do ya??

 

[lewisnotmiller]

anything deviating from the normal paths of nature is odd and abnormal and not right. anything deviating from from authentic revelations is sinful.

Wow.
So much wrong here. I'm pretty sure you haven't thought this through. Feel free to retract or correct it, but I wouldn't recommend holding to it, personally.

 

[columbus]

Are you asking about my own, or a meta analysis of all faiths' concept of salvation?

Yours.

Pardon me if I am misremembering. I thought you are a Christian who has referred to Scripture as an authority. That's why I asked you.

I would say he seems like a convoluted character, or at least has led a somewhat convoluted life. Someone who is "gay" typically doesn't have multiple children.

Not as much as you may think. Lots of gay people have kids. He did something rather common. He tried to "straighten" himself out by getting married and having kids. He was strongly encouraged to do that by his Christian family.
It just didn't work out.
But he was a good dad and loves being a grandpa. He's good at it.

What people think of someone or how much they love him doesn't really fit into the framework of the question.

Yes as a matter of fact it does.
If God has an opinion on the subject, I've never heard it. It's always always what someone thinks, even when they attribute their opinion to God. Usually it's an indirect attribution, quoting Scripture.
Hence my question. How does he fit into your Scriptural morality?
Tom

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It is a shame that there are still people who even consider calling homosexuality (or transexuality, bisexuality, etc) "sinful".

What is considered as wrong in Scripture is: fornication (porneia)
So, 'anyone' single is to refrain from the practice of fornication (porneia)

 

[URAVIP2ME]

First there would need to be a hell. As far as I have seen/heard/read there is absolutely no good reason to believe such a place exists.

I can agree that such a place as a permanent burning-forever hell does Not exist, except in religious-myth teachings.
However, KJV Bibles do use the English word hell, and is wrongly taught in connection to a fiery hell of No returning.
Biblical hell is just the temporary grave for the sleeping un-conscious dead until resurrection day.
That is why Jesus and the old Hebrew Scriptures teach only sleep in death at John 11:11-14; Ecclesiastes 9:5.
So, the day righteous Jesus' died Jesus went to hell, meaning the grave until God resurrected Jesus out of biblical hell aka the grave.