Are Homosexuals going to Hell?

[Skwim]

Are Homosexuals going to Hell?
Right along with every other sinner who doesn't repent!
ronandcarol

Young children, the mentally incompetent, and the ignorant included. Jehovah makes no exceptions because he is a loving and understanding god.

In case you can't read the title of the book god is reading, it's
....... "THE JOY OF SENDING PEOPLE TO HELL"

.​

 

[Grumpuss]

Bingo!

So why not leave it to "God" and "the sinner" to sort it out between themselves? Because, unless you actually know God's mind, you don't know whether someone is sinning and even requires whatever help you think you can offer. And too many good people have already been irreparably hurt by those religious efforts to "convert" homosexuals. It can't be done, and only cause terrible hurt.

As it happens, there are many, many Christians who accept that homosexuality is just another human expression of sexuality and love, and while not common, is not "unnatural" in the way that you like to use that word. It is, in fact, perfectly natural -- it happens naturally, people don't wander around selecting their orientation from a coin dispenser.

How did you get the idea that this was a thread about Christian intolerance of homosexuality?

 

[LuisDantas]

Perhaps it could be used as guidance for how to live. Doing good works and not being consumed with self might be what gives us salvation. Otherwise, people would just be high on heroin and banging hired donkey prostitutes 24 hours a day...

With all due respect, the logical flaw is simply way too big to ignore. Morality is far too serious a matter to be handled with such neglect as you suggest.

How hard can it possibly be for a Christian to simply say what must be said? Namely, that it makes no sense that God would be so petty and obsessed about that personal matter that is sexuality?

 

[columbus]

Oh, so it's anger at God. Okay, I get it. I don't agree with it, but I hope the two of you can work it out.

Not that I am speaking for Bob, only myself.

It took me a long time to get over my anger at God. I did eventually, but it took the realization that religion has little or nothing to do with God. Having grown up in a conservative Christian home, in a very Christian community, that took a long time.

People who repeat evil crap like "Homosexuals are going to Hell" is just a cross I have to bear.
Tom

 

[LuisDantas]

How did you get the idea that this was a thread about Christian intolerance of homosexuality?

That comes from the OP, I would wager. I certainly get that sense.

 

[columbus]

How did you get the idea that this was a thread about Christian intolerance of homosexuality?

From the thread title.

As far as I know, the only people who think that homosexuals might go to Hell are the adherents of the two big Jewish heresies, Christians and Muslims. And many of them don't, for various reasons. But I am familiar with lots who do, and since I live in Christendom they're mostly Christian. That's why I assumed that this thread is about Christian orientation bigotry.
Tom

 

[Grumpuss]

With all due respect, the logical flaw is simply way too big to ignore. Morality is far too serious a matter to be handled with such neglect as you suggest.

How hard can it possibly be for a Christian to simply say what must be said? Namely, that it makes no sense that God would be so petty and obsessed about that personal matter that is sexuality?

Why would gods set rules, only for their followers to abandon them later, because it was inconvenient for them, and then fail to judge them, as promised? It's established fact that there are homosexual Hindus, homosexual Muslims, homosexual Christians, homosexual Buddhists, etc. Presumably, there are bisexual and transsexual populations in each faith, as well as those who engage in bestiality, pedophilia, paraphilia, and perhaps other things unconsidered. The question was whether such people believe in their salvation, even as they commit large portions of their lives towards sexual self-gratification.

That comes from the OP, I would wager. I certainly get that sense.

Perhaps you should re-read the OP then. It's not a denomination-specific question.

 

[Grumpuss]

From the thread title.

As far as I know, the only people who think that homosexuals might go to Hell are the adherents of the two big Jewish heresies, Christians and Muslims. And many of them don't, for various reasons. But I am familiar with lots who do, and since I live in Christendom they're mostly Christian. That's why I assumed that this thread is about Christian orientation bigotry.
Tom

Well, it's not. If you're hung up on Christians so much, then go to the Christian DIRs.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

How did you get the idea that this was a thread about Christian intolerance of homosexuality?

I didn't. I said leave it between God and the homosexual. The Christian god isn't the only one anyone's ever heard of you know, and I didn't specify. And I said that people have been hurt by "religious efforts" not "Christian efforts" to convert them.

After that, in fact, I spoke about exactly the opposite -- Christian acceptance of homosexuality as natural.

 

[Kemosloby]

Speak for yourself. You assume that "we are all sinners" but you have absolutely zero basis (or even authority) to make such a claim.

It is insultingly rude of you to make such a presumption. Who gave YOU the authority? And who is he, and who gave HIM the authority? Hint: your bible isn't authoritative. It's your claim. You cannot use your claim to "prove" your claim... that's a logical fallacy.

Not everyone is a sinner-- not by any rational measure of the word "sin". And by rational? I mean without invoking any magic or JuJu or MoJo or any of that superstitious nonsense.

Jesus said all have sinned, therefore we're all sinners. What rational do I use to agree with Jesus? Is there really anybody who has never told a lie? Or not done something they should have done? "Anyone who sees the good they ought to do and does it not sins". And many more things, so many that nobody in their right mind can claim to have never sinned, and if you've sinned that makes you a sinner. Not even counting original sin or imagining sin. "Anyone who looks at a woman and lusts after her sins" , even thinking or imagining evil is sin.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Are Homosexuals going to Hell?

Probably. Unless they serve in the military, but even then... probably.

[Phelps is] with the angels now?

I doubt it. I couldn't even remember his name without looking him up. Pretty glad he's dead, thought it was hilarious that his family and the church that he created excommunicated him. Now if only the rest of them could sod off, we could all breath easier.

How did you get the idea that this was a thread about Christian intolerance of homosexuality?

The HUGE picture of Fred Phelps probably didn't help. Just sayin'.

 

[Grumpuss]

I didn't. I said leave it between God and the homosexual. The Christian god isn't the only one anyone's ever heard of you know, and I didn't specify. And I said that people have been hurt by "religious efforts" not "Christian efforts" to convert them.

After that, in fact, I spoke about exactly the opposite -- Christian acceptance of homosexuality as natural.

Again, why so focused on Christianity? The world's religious population is majority non-Christian.

This isn't about Christians trying to cure homosexuality. It was a general question about salvation and the rules of self-examination by the devout across diverse religious groups. As I said, the example could have been murder or torture. Yet oddly, you hone in on homosexuality and Christians.

 

[columbus]

Well, it's not.

What is it about? I thought it was about religious people who claim that me sharing gifts of sexual pleasure with a competent consenting adult, in the context of a mutually supportive and exclusive and permanent relationship, makes me a Hell bound Sinner.

If you're hung up on Christians so much, then go to the Christian DIRs.

I am not hung up on Christians. I am responding in your thread. I get along just fine with God and most religious people, including Christians.
If anything, this thread is about Christians who are hung about me. As far as I can tell. What am I missing, concerning your OP?
Tom

 

[Corvus]

Sexual repression and homophobic persecution, leads to abuse death and suffering. It is here that certain houses, on branches of certain faiths have a lot to answer for.

 

[ChristineM]

Your question was: "And how do they effect you personally?"

Your grammar is wrong is every sense in that usage:
Affect vs. Effect Grammar Rules

Ok

Oh, and *influence

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Wait, so because you can't conceive of the reason, God doesn't do it? That's an odd justification, just so you can claim some bizarre victory over theology.

Hahaha... oh wow. No no no. I believe that God doesn't do it because He doesn't exist. That's the reason He doesn't perform active surveillance of any kind. You are the one who believes He does. All I am trying to do is get you to contemplate what it means if God is out there doing this. It is exactly as I stated if it is so, and you have to believe that it is! You really have no other choice. God is sitting up there, watching everyone and their mothers have sex. He's recording it, making note of all the naughty bits, keeping a list... heck... he probably even checks it twice! Oh wait... that's Santa Clause. Oh well... what's the difference really?

If my example was murder or stealing organs from babies, I'm guessing you might have more of a problem with it. But sexual deviancy others consider unsavory gets your hackles up? I dunno, maybe complete anarchy and zero consideration for the outcome is right up your alley...

Stealing organs from babies ACTIVELY HURTS SOMEONE. You've been told this sort of distinction a thousand times, I am sure, yet somehow you think the same sorts of insufficient analogies will work with the next person you're arguing against. And I feel sex with animals is wrong... they can't give consent, so again, something is being harmed, or taken advantage of against a will. Sex with plants? That's just dumb - those people are automatically living in their own punishment. However, sex between consenting adults of any type or persuasion is not hurting you, not hurting your dog, not hurting your sycamore, not hurting the people involved... definitely not hurting babies' internal organs. Seriously... you want to pin "zero consideration" on me? Try thinking before you post... believe me, it helps!

 

[sun rise]

Why would gods set rules, only for their followers to abandon them later, because it was inconvenient for them, and then fail to judge them, as promised? It's established fact that there are homosexual Hindus, homosexual Muslims, homosexual Christians, homosexual Buddhists, etc. Presumably, there are bisexual and transsexual populations in each faith, as well as those who engage in bestiality, pedophilia, paraphilia, and perhaps other things unconsidered. The question was whether such people believe in their salvation, even as they commit large portions of their lives towards sexual self-gratification.

Perhaps you should re-read the OP then. It's not a denomination-specific question.

The vast majority of people don't believe deeply in their professed religion; deeply enough to fundamentally change how they behave in the world nor put their religion ahead of politics etc. What happens after dropping the physical body is just one piece of that. One of Meher Baba's quotes speaks directly to this:

Man's inability to live God's words, makes them a mockery.

How many Christians follow Christ's teaching to "turn the other cheek" or "to love thy neighbour as thyself?"

How many Muslims follow Mohammed's precept to 'hold God above everything else'?

How many Hindus 'bear the torch of righteousness at all cost'?

How many Buddhists live the 'life of pure compassion' expounded by Buddha?

How many Zoroastrians 'think truly, speak truly, act truly'?

So to me the question of one's attitudes toward homosexuality is only a tiny piece of a much larger issue.

 

[LuisDantas]

Why would gods set rules, only for their followers to abandon them later, because it was inconvenient for them, and then fail to judge them, as promised? It's established fact that there are homosexual Hindus, homosexual Muslims, homosexual Christians, homosexual Buddhists, etc. Presumably, there are bisexual and transsexual populations in each faith, as well as those who engage in bestiality, pedophilia, paraphilia, and perhaps other things unconsidered. The question was whether such people believe in their salvation, even as they commit large portions of their lives towards sexual self-gratification.

Perhaps you should re-read the OP then. It's not a denomination-specific question.

It is specific to doctrines that commit the self-evident moral mistake of thinking of LGBT as morally wrong.

That is plenty enough for my judgment.

 

[columbus]

Jesus said all have sinned, therefore we're all sinners.

This sentence is simply not true.
Amended to be far more accurate it would read:
"According to the people I trust to translate the words of people who lived thousands of years ago and claimed to be quoting Jesus, ......"
I don't trust you that much. I don't think you qualify as an official spokesperson for God.
Tom

 

[Shadow Wolf]

nobody in their right mind can claim to have never sinned

I am not a sinner just because you have a book that says I am.