Are human lives more valuable or of more worth than those of other species?

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm drinking so...

I can tell.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Ok, make that argument then. Tell me why human life, especially that of a defenseless child is worth less than the life of a wild animal.

I don't think anyone is trying to argue that the life of a human is worth less than any an individual of any other species. People have been arguing for a view of equality, but that's about it.

Now I could put on my misanthrope hat and start seriously bashing humanity in this thread, including the resource-sucking, bratty DNA replicants we're expected to communally fawn over and worship as pure, innocent angels. Would you like me to do that?

 

[Quintessence]

I don't think anyone is trying to argue that the life of a human is worth less than any an individual of any other species.

I've been tempted. So far, better judgement has prevailed.

Though it should go without saying that if one values present biodiversity, the life of a T/E species is "worth more" than any human. Humans are in zero danger of extinction.

 

[Jainarayan]

I just don't understand why they had to kill the poor animal. Don't they have guns with darts to make animals fall asleep instead? And what kind of security do they have that allowed for the kid to fall in there in the first place?

The tranquilizer may have taken too long to work. It's not immediate. Being darted cold have enraged the gorilla, no telling what he'd do then.

 

[Nietzsche]

Is your cousin's life more valuable than your pet dog?

Gonna have to be careful with questions like those. If your cousin is a serious piece of ****, the answer is rightly "no".

 

[Tumah]

Gonna have to be careful with questions like those. If your cousin is a serious piece of ****, the answer is rightly "no".

That could be. But as thinking beings, I'd think that we can look beyond our individual circumstances to answer the general question: is family more important that a pet?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That could be. But as thinking beings, I'd think that we can look beyond our individual circumstances to answer the general question: is family more important that a pet?

No. One of my cousins killed a pet baby rabbit of mine by dropping her on her head, leading her to develop a brain hemorrhage and dying a slow death. She also stole from me. I wouldn't mind dropping her on her stupid head from a height of 20 feet or so. Unfortunately, she's apparently reproduced. Most of my family are a great argument for eugenics. I hate them all, and most of them hate me. I'd save my pet tarantula over any of them.

My pets are the only family I have now, since my mom has passed away (life seems to enjoy taking the ones I love and who love me away, which was a very short list in the first place).

 

[Nietzsche]

That could be. But as thinking beings, I'd think that we can look beyond our individual circumstances to answer the general question: is family more important that a pet?

Eh, this is where we split paths, I think. My pet is part of my family. There has never been a moment in my life where I've not had a dog. The list of people, not just family, I'd save over my dog doesn't extend past the single digits.

 

[Jainarayan]

Eh, this is where we split paths, I think. My pet is part of my family. There has never been a moment in my life where I've not had a dog. The list of people, not just family, I'd save over my dog doesn't extend past the single digits.

I can't disagree. I have relatives I've not seen in decades. I have in-laws who've been nothing but trouble to me for over 20 years. These people mean nothing to me. The dogs and cat come first.

On the other hand, I'm not going to pass judgement on the parents or the zoo because I wasn't there. All I can say is that in this case, the child probably was in danger, and sad as it is, sometimes deadly force is necessary.

As a teenager I had a dog that had bitten one too many kid, including a family member. I came home from school to find that Dutch had been taken to a "farm" by my father. Uh huh, the farm in the sky. He had to be put down before he did some real damage.

 

[FearGod]

Since the killing of Harambe, the Western lowland gorilla who was shot dead at the Cincinnati Zoo on Saturday, I've been following the reaction and the debates over it, including reading the comments on the sites reporting it. I've also aired my opinion on Twitter. (My reaction is one of great sorrow and outrage.)

Anyway, many of the comments I've seen say things along the line of "sad that the gorilla was killed, but the boy's safety was paramount" and some comments have been deriding those who proclaim the human kid as the most important being in this equation. Regardless of your opinion on this specific situation, this does call attention to a way of thinking that is prevalent throughout the world and which is promoted by most world religions and popular philosophies - that is, anthropocentrism or speciesism, the idea that humans are inherently of greater worth than all other species. This tends to go hand in hand with the belief that humans are superior than other animals and even that humans are set apart from nature and that we are somehow "not animals".

Personally, I very much disagree with that. I don't think humans are special, superior or more valuable than any other lifeforms. I don't think we were specially made or somehow set apart from other species. I think we're merely the product of biological evolution and natural selection like all other lifeforms on this, and probably other, planets. We're just merely a very tiny strand in an immense web of life that encompasses galaxies. To me, there is no evidence for claims of human specialness or inherent superiority aside from what humans believe or assert about themselves. The universe and the planet existed long before our ape species did and will continue long after we're gone. I do not view myself or my species as more valuable than or superior to a dog, an elephant, a snake, a fish, a whale, a plant, a bacteria or a fungus. It's not low self-esteem or mere misanthropy, either (although I am a misanthrope, but that's mostly due to disappointment and disgust at the behavior, conceit and delusions of arrogance of my species). That's simply the result of myself attempting to hold to a more holistic and cosmic view of reality.

In fact, I think a good argument could be made that the gorilla's life was actually of far more worth than the human boy's life, simply going by numbers. There are almost 7.5 billion humans on the planet but less than 200,000 gorillas of all subspecies in the world. Humans are a dime a dozen and more are arriving on the planet each moment, but gorillas are not. They're going to disappear soon and that's due to human actions. I can understand why a person would be more likely to judge a child as having more importance or worth than a non-human animal. But that's just bias, ultimately, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing. But I do think we've passed the time that we can get away with promoting such views since we're actively destroying the biosphere and leading many species to extinction. Our insane arrogance is literally going to kill us and perhaps a good chunk of the planet, as well, unless we get it in check right away.

Anyway, I'm tired and this is been on my mind a bit. I probably could've presented my opinion in a more in-depth manner, but hopefully this thread will spark some thoughtful discussion.

Your thoughts?

I felt sad indeed about the Gorilla, but still the child's life was threatened, guessing here is a waste of time, the best choice
was to end the life of the gorilla and i think the zoo management should resign and even questioned for the negligence.

 

[Nietzsche]

I felt sad indeed about the Gorilla, but still the child's life was threatened, guessing here is a waste of time, the best choice
was to end the life of the gorilla and i think the zoo management should resign and even questioned for the negligence.

It wasn't the zoo workers who screwed up. Why was that kid so ****ing close to where he could get in? The fault here is with the parents.

 

[Tumah]

Eh, this is where we split paths, I think. My pet is part of my family. There has never been a moment in my life where I've not had a dog. The list of people, not just family, I'd save over my dog doesn't extend past the single digits.

But do you recognize that as a symptom of the type of people you are related to? Given a good, caring relative and your well-natured dog who do you choose?

 

[Jainarayan]

The fault here is with the parents.

Like I said, I wasn't there, but on second thought, why is a 4 year old allowed to run around (as in "not in a stroller") in a crowd? I see 2 scenarios, neither of which is appealing:

1. The kid is killed or maimed by the gorilla.
2. The kid is abducted.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It wasn't the zoo workers who screwed up. Why was that kid so ****ing close to where he could get in? The fault here is with the parents.

The kid snuck in. He got in on purpose. I posted about that situation here: http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/obama-shoots-king-kong.187808/#post-4769093

 

[FearGod]

It wasn't the zoo workers who screwed up. Why was that kid so ****ing close to where he could get in? The fault here is with the parents.

The gorilla's area should be designed in away as to prevent a little child from getting in.

 

[Nietzsche]

The gorilla's area should be designed in away as to prevent a little child from getting in.

It is. The child had to make a concerted effort to do it. During which time the parents really should've considered doing more than "nothing".

 

[FearGod]

It is. The child had to make a concerted effort to do it. During which time the parents really should've considered doing more than "nothing".

Maybe they were busy with whatsup, facebook and such social media.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Maybe they were busy with whatsup, facebook and such social media.

Lol. A lot of people have been saying that.

“Zoos aren’t your baby sitter,” Corwin told Fox 25 News. “Take a break from the cell phone and the selfie stick and the texting. Connect with your children. Be responsible for your children. I don’t think this happened in seconds or minutes. I think this took time, for this kid, for this little boy to find himself in this situation. And ultimately, it’s the gorilla that has paid that price.”

Selfie stick:

Lol.

 

[Nietzsche]

Maybe they were busy with whatsup, facebook and such social media.

That remains firmly outside the responsibility of the zoo. Parents are at fault. Their negligence and, frankly, soul-crushing stupidity killed a gorilla.

I will not fault the zoo for killing the gorilla to save the child, in the same way I'm not going to fault a fireman for wrecking a house to save people from a fire that was started because some retard was smoking in bed.

 

[FearGod]

Lol. A lot of people have been saying that.

“Zoos aren’t your baby sitter,” Corwin told Fox 25 News. “Take a break from the cell phone and the selfie stick and the texting. Connect with your children. Be responsible for your children. I don’t think this happened in seconds or minutes. I think this took time, for this kid, for this little boy to find himself in this situation. And ultimately, it’s the gorilla that has paid that price.”

Selfie stick:

Lol.

This disease is spreading everywhere, people are going crazy with silfie.
Indeed the gorilla paid the price.