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Are Jesus and Lucifer brothers?
- Thread starter Rex
- Start date
Hirohito18200
Member
I know this is an old post but o well....
There is an obvious answer to this question coming from the Christian point of view. Jesus is God, having the same nature and existing with him all along. Lucifer is an angel, created in "the begining", but not at first. Angels can't even look God in the face, so to consider them brothers, connotating somewhat equal, would be absurd.
Sorry for being so short, but i have to go adios all.
There is an obvious answer to this question coming from the Christian point of view. Jesus is God, having the same nature and existing with him all along. Lucifer is an angel, created in "the begining", but not at first. Angels can't even look God in the face, so to consider them brothers, connotating somewhat equal, would be absurd.
Sorry for being so short, but i have to go adios all.
Runt
Well-Known Member
Not being Christian, but using Christian theology to arrive at my answer, I'd say yes. If all humans and angels in creation are the sons and daughters of God, then not only is Jesus the child of God, but so is Satan (who is basically just a nasty fallen angel)... and if we think in human terms (which we must, because Christians apply human characteristics to their God: gender, personality, etc), then if two beings (Jesus and Satan) are both the "children" of God, then they are brothers.
It makes sense to me... the idea of "Good brother-bad brother" has been around for a long time, or at least the idea of brothers as rivals.
It makes sense to me... the idea of "Good brother-bad brother" has been around for a long time, or at least the idea of brothers as rivals.
Hirohito18200
Member
My appologies for not being more clear.
Jesus is not the child of God, or the offspring, or anything of that sort. (this is coming from a traditional Christian viewpoint) Jesus is God. He has always existed. Lucifer was a creation of God, or you could substitute and say Lucifer was created by Jesus, although it is assumed that the Jesus aspect of God was not responsible for creation but that is another topic. To say that Jesus was a child of God (which was what I interprited out of your earlier post Runt, please correct me if i misunderstood) would be incorrect. Read about the demise of Arianism, or Sabellianism for that matter. (early church heresies, got snuffed out with relative ease, although new aspects of the arguments are coming about...)
Jesus is not the child of God, or the offspring, or anything of that sort. (this is coming from a traditional Christian viewpoint) Jesus is God. He has always existed. Lucifer was a creation of God, or you could substitute and say Lucifer was created by Jesus, although it is assumed that the Jesus aspect of God was not responsible for creation but that is another topic. To say that Jesus was a child of God (which was what I interprited out of your earlier post Runt, please correct me if i misunderstood) would be incorrect. Read about the demise of Arianism, or Sabellianism for that matter. (early church heresies, got snuffed out with relative ease, although new aspects of the arguments are coming about...)
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
>>Mormon theology teaches: God lives on a planet called "Kolob" with his many celestial wives, having sex continually with them all to produce 'spirit children' to populate this planet.<<
wow! spent 20 years as a mormon and never heard that one before!!! :lol:
Rex, those were some harsh anti-mormon sites you found...
mg:
anyway... Hirohito18200, not all christians think Jesus=god... Jesus was the christian messiah... for whatever that does for you...
In fact Lucifer is the Roman name for the anchient greek god Hesperos who was assoicated with what later became known as Venus.
http://www.theoi.com/Ouranos/Hesperos.html
wa:-do
wow! spent 20 years as a mormon and never heard that one before!!! :lol:
Rex, those were some harsh anti-mormon sites you found...
mg: anyway... Hirohito18200, not all christians think Jesus=god... Jesus was the christian messiah... for whatever that does for you...
In fact Lucifer is the Roman name for the anchient greek god Hesperos who was assoicated with what later became known as Venus.
http://www.theoi.com/Ouranos/Hesperos.html
wa:-do
Jesus and Satan are not brothers in my faith.
I better take that back. I am no longer convinced that Satan and Lucifer are the same anymore. I have done study on this and asked a lot of people about it.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Latter-day Saints are asked this question all the time. The second we say, "Well, yes, they were at one time brothers... Let me tell you how that works in our theology," our critics are generally frothing at the mouth and hysterical. I think that a big part of the problem is that Trinitarian Christians don't seem to be particularly adept at distinguishing between God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. Yes, they believe that Jesus is God (so do we, but we make a clear distinction between the Father and the Son), but somehow this gets twisted into meaning that we believe that Jesus and Lucifer were at one time equals. This simply is not true. We don't believe that at all.
Francine
Well-Known Member
Both Satan and Jesus are my brothers, because we all have the same Creator God for our Father.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I agree with this statement 100%, but I am amazed to hear you say it. I can't count the number of times I've had Catholics tell me that Jesus was not created. Could you explain your statement in light of that criticism?
Sola'lor
LDSUJC
Jesus before he was born on Earth and was only a spirit; an Lucifer were brothers. But once Lucifer was cast out and became Satan they are no longer brothers. Lucifer was the brother of us all but once he became Satan we ceased to be our brother. Essentially he was cast out of the family.
TrueBlue2
Member
You need to note that Francine now has her religion listed as "Taoist."
Can you explain Francine?
Lucifer was the original child of the Goddess who had immense godlike power. He was the prototype Jesus/Buddha etc, the literal "King of the World" @ one time, a god of Light, hence his title "Light-bringer" and his association with Love (Venus). When the Goddess-centric societies fell into decadence, and patriarchy was born, he was demonized by the opposition and fell into evil himself. This is the beginnings of the "fallen angel" story. Milton's Paradise Lost popularized the association of Lucifer with Satan, which is false, and Isaiah's criticism of "Lucifer" in his prophetic book of the Bible is addressed to the Babylonian King who merely took the title "Lucifer" in the meaning and context of "Morning Star", not the supernatural being, or the superhuman entity who existed in prehistory that bore the name originally.
Church Fathers do not agree that Lucifer is the proper name of the Devil, look up the Catholic encyclopedia. That's because it's not, being both the name and title of the original Son of the God(dess), the bringer of Salvation, the Enlightened one, Wise Serpent etc.
Today, only occult sources believe in Lucifer as the Supreme Being (some tracts of FreeMasonry, for example). Most Luciferians think they're worshipping the Devil, when they're not. Some Luciferians understand the distinction between Lucifer and God's agent of temptation in the Bible (who is Satan).
Problem is, Lucifer is a synomn for Satan now thanks to the many theological errors of Mormonism, JHVH's Witnesses and the Protestant King James Bible.
It's a mess, but thankfully there is a positive movement amongst religious scholars now towards reevaluating Lucifer in the light of new understanding of him, and detaching his mythos and history from the murk of Satan (and Satanism).
Church Fathers do not agree that Lucifer is the proper name of the Devil, look up the Catholic encyclopedia. That's because it's not, being both the name and title of the original Son of the God(dess), the bringer of Salvation, the Enlightened one, Wise Serpent etc.
Today, only occult sources believe in Lucifer as the Supreme Being (some tracts of FreeMasonry, for example). Most Luciferians think they're worshipping the Devil, when they're not. Some Luciferians understand the distinction between Lucifer and God's agent of temptation in the Bible (who is Satan).
Problem is, Lucifer is a synomn for Satan now thanks to the many theological errors of Mormonism, JHVH's Witnesses and the Protestant King James Bible.
It's a mess, but thankfully there is a positive movement amongst religious scholars now towards reevaluating Lucifer in the light of new understanding of him, and detaching his mythos and history from the murk of Satan (and Satanism).
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
So are you saying that Catholics do not believe that Lucifer and Satan are the same individual?
Francine
Well-Known Member
You need to note that Francine now has her religion listed as "Taoist."
Can you explain Francine?
You get nothing more from me, ever.
logician
Well-Known Member
Interesting hypothesis, on what scripture is this based?
TrueBlue2
Member
Sorry to hear that. As I've indicated before I have nothing but respect for you and your ability to defend your religious views.
Publicly, the Church has never made any official pronouncements on it. Seriously!
It is repeatedly stated by the RCC that "Lucifer" is not the proper name for the Devil, and it is only on the "authority" of St. Jerome that the name Lucifer, which is variously given in the Bible as a title of the Babylonian King AND of Jesus Himself, has become a synomn for the Devil (ie. considered one and the same as Satan).
Do I expect the Church to clear up theological errors anytime soon? No.
But the facts are, the mis-association of Lucifer with Satan has done significant damage to the whole common understanding of the figure of the Devil, what he represents and who he "is" (in the abstract sense).