Are Jews still God's Chosen People?

[free spirit]

Do Christians have a monopoly on holiness?

No, the only and true God has the monopoly, for the only way to Christ is through God, the only way to God is true Christ. in other words You must believe in God, any God, before Christ is offered to you, then Christ will lead you to repentance back to the true God. Very simple really.

 

[free spirit]

What utter nonsense that we cannot follow the Law ,,,,
it becomes second nature if it is the culture and tradition your family has lived with
for millennia

God is not content to be the second nature, He wants to be the first nature. therefore drop the fleshly nature and put on the Holy nature. A true godly man doesn't need the law, he is the law.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Open to Jews & Christians please. Are Jews still God's chosen people? Are they not.
Please explain to me why they are or are not.

My background is charismatic, then baptist, then generic. I am somewhat acquainted with several views on this subject, but I'm not a divinity prof or anything like that.

The apologetic for Christians to continue being Christian is today very conflicted, so you can't get a single answer to this question from Christians. Most people try to rely upon the Christian apostle, Paul. Sometimes Christians believe that the appearance of Christianity in some way cancelled Judaism, but this is an arbitrary position. The Christian apostle 'Paul' writes about the replacement of the Torah in Galatians, but he writes about how permanent and important it is in Romans. This creates the appearance of a contradiction, which many people deny could exist. Some scholars explain this seeming contradiction by suggesting Paul is not a single person but multiple people. My opinion is that I agree with them, that 'Paul' is multiple people; and some Pauls disagree with other Pauls. I don't think this kind of disagreement can be explained by situational letters.

I think its petty to make declarations about Jews. We Christians actually don't know a lot about them, which is too bad.

 

[roger1440]

No, the only and true God has the monopoly, for the only way to Christ is through God, the only way to God is true Christ. in other words You must believe in God, any God, before Christ is offered to you, then Christ will lead you to repentance back to the true God. Very simple really.

Let me understand this. Christians do not have a monopoly on God, but the only way to God is through Christ. Thanks for clearly that up.

 

[free spirit]

You know, Noah had a covenant. Abraham had a covenant. Moses had a covenant. At what point exactly did one covenant cancel out the previous one? The Torah shows that Moses' son was circumcised. This proves that Abraham's covenant was still in effect in Moses' time. In fact God was angry at Moses for not circumcising his son sooner. We all agree there is to be a new covenant with God after the one of Moses was given. You believe the NT is the new covenant, we don't. In any case, what makes this new covenant cancel out the previous ones?

A covenant is a contract between two party, when one of the party doesn't keep even one part of the covenant the covenant is broken; and there are penalties for that. God never broke any covenant with men; men was always the one that broke the covenants. But God is merciful so he continue to renew the covenant. You believe it or not the latest covenant was made through the blood of Jesus Christ, a Jew; how about that! Me, a gentile calling a Jew my lord and my God. I must be anti-Semitic.

 

[dantech]

A covenant is a contract between two party, when one of the party doesn't keep even one part of the covenant the covenant is broken; and there are penalties for that. God never broke any covenant with men; men was always the one that broke the covenants. But God is merciful so he continue to renew the covenant. You believe it or not the latest covenant was made through the blood of Jesus Christ, a Jew; how about that! Me, a gentile calling a Jew my lord and my God. I must be anti-Semitic.

Who said anything about anti Semitic?

Let me ask you this. During Jesus' lifetime, was Moses' law still in effect?

 

[free spirit]

My background is charismatic, then baptist, then generic. I am somewhat acquainted with several views on this subject, but I'm not a divinity prof or anything like that.

The apologetic for Christians to continue being Christian is today very conflicted, so you can't get a single answer to this question from Christians. Most people try to rely upon the Christian apostle, Paul. Sometimes Christians believe that the appearance of Christianity in some way cancelled Judaism, but this is an arbitrary position. The Christian apostle 'Paul' writes about the replacement of the Torah in Galatians, but he writes about how permanent and important it is in Romans. This creates the appearance of a contradiction, which many people deny exists. Most scholars explain this by suggesting Paul is not a single person but multiple people.

Yes, I agree you are very confused. Please let me show one thing.
We all know that the high priest’s will was to have Jesus put to death by execution, for we read in John 11:48-50: “’If we let Him go on like this, all men will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation.’ But a certain one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, ‘You know nothing at all, nor do you take into account that it is expedient for us that one man should die, and that the whole nation should not perish.’”
The above verses make the reasoning and intention of the high priest clear. He is mainly afraid that his influential position and the Jewish religion will be abolished by the Romans because they all thought that if Jesus was not stopped, eventually the entire congregation would believe in Him and there would be no longer any need for their office and their religion (or nation.) In a nutshell we can confidently say that the high priest had Jesus put to death so that his influential office and the Jewish religion could continue its existence.
furthermore Paul was no by-polar; In a nutshell Paul was saying that when one receive the Holy Spirit the one has no longer a need for the Law, because with the Holy Spirit comes the Holy character of Christ, so if you live within that character you will always to the things that pleases Him. Simple no!

 

[free spirit]

Who said anything about anti Semitic?

Let me ask you this. During Jesus' lifetime, was Moses' law still in effect?

The anti Semitic bit; I was being ironic.
Yes, but not for Jesus; why? because Jesus was filled with grace and truth. in other words He was filled with the Holy Spirit or the Holy Character. The holy character is above the law, because it is the LAW.

 

[free spirit]

Let me understand this. Christians do not have a monopoly on God, but the only way to God is through Christ. Thanks for clearly that up.

Well put, I could not stop laughing. but it is the truth!

 

[dantech]

The anti Semitic bit; I was being ironic.
Yes, but not for Jesus; why? because Jesus was filled with grace and truth. in other words He was filled with the Holy Spirit or the Holy Character. The holy character is above the law, because it is the LAW.

I was expecting such an answer. Ok, so you make up your own rules. How exactly do you know that Jesus was filled with grace and truth. What exactly does it mean to be filled with grace and truth? How exactly do you know that being filled with the Holy Spirit gives you the right to be above the law? What exactly does it mean to be filled with the Holy Spirit? What is the Holy Spirit? How can something that is the law be above the law? You say a bunch of things that sound good but don't really mean anything.

 

[Eliab ben Benjamin]

Saul of Tarsus (Paul) was a Roman Tax collector, born some 70 years after Y'shua ...
and therefore never met him, he apparently had seizures of one sort or another ,
causing his visions so perhaps he was indeed bi-polar ... all his reported words
of his christos were his own hallucinations.

In this era he would be institutionalised for his psychosis ..

Saul of Tarsus was born in approximately AD 5 in the city of Tarsus in Cilicia (in modern-day Turkey).

Read more: What is the story of Saul of Tarsus before he became the apostle Paul?

 

[Brickjectivity]

Yes a agree you are very confused. Please let me show one thing.
We all know that the high priest’s will was to have Jesus put to death by execution, for we read in John 11:48-50: “’If we let Him go on like this, all men will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation.’ But a certain one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, ‘You know nothing at all, nor do you take into account that it is expedient for us that one man should die, and that the whole nation should not perish.’”
The above verses make the reasoning and intention of the high priest clear. He is mainly afraid that his influential position and the Jewish religion will be abolished by the Romans because they all thought that if Jesus was not stopped, eventually the entire congregation would believe in Him and there would be no longer any need for their office and their religion (or nation.) In a nutshell we can confidently say that the high priest had Jesus put to death so that his influential office and the Jewish religion could continue its existence.
furthermore Paul was no by-polar; In a nutshell Paul was saying that when one receive the Holy Spirit the one has no longer a need for the Law, because with the Holy Spirit comes the Holy character of Christ, so if you live within that character you will always to the things that pleases Him. Simple no!

Paul does uphold importance of Torah in one letter and declares it antiquated in another, or he seems to anyway. Sometimes we just can't agree about things. Paul A doesn't exclude Paul B over this. They are still together and are included in the same canon. One does not try to silence the other. Instead they have faith in God and continue working faithfully rather than talking faithfully over one another.

with the Holy Spirit comes the Holy character of Christ

...and yet Torah is considered to be a dispensation of the Holy Spirit, and Christians are advised to fill themselves with it with these words "Don't be drunken with wine but be filled with the spirit." There is so much more than one way to view this, so much more than one way we are urged to view it. Is there any wonder that Acts records a disagreement about it? "We hold this treasure in jars of clay" not in "one very smart jar of clay." More than one person. This is the "Be excellent and innocent of evil and the God of Peace will soon crush Satan under your feet" and the opposite of it is what has happened.

You can't crush Satan by talking. I mean the opposite has happened: because Christians have been critical of each other, splitting and splitting until only individuals remain, Satan has not been crushed. I will add that Historically it began with criticism of Jews. "Oh those darn Jews. Always frolicking. Always nit picking." Once Christians felt they could judge Jews they began to judge each other. Now its "Oh, those darn (fill in the blank) they just don't get it." So now the Christians have become so divided that it has come full circle, and we are back to criticizing Jews again for lack of another target.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Saul of Tarsus (Paul) was a Roman Tax collector, born some 70 years after Y'shua …

… Saul of Tarsus was born in approximately AD 5 in the city of Tarsus in Cilicia (in modern-day Turkey).

Wow! That ^ was embarrassing.

 

[JM2C]

You should first learn to rightly divide the word before you shout.

You are not dividing but subtracting the word of God just to please your twisted theology.

 

[JM2C]

The following Scriptures are reliable testimony of the existence of lies, which were disseminated in the sacred scriptures by an enemy of Christ.

Please stop preaching and get on to the subject. Are you telling me that while Paul was writing or dictating this letter to Tertius he was deliberately telling lies and at the same time telling the truth, and you could discern which one is the truth from the lie?

 

[metis]

Nothing was wrong with the Law. It was perfect. If a man could follow it w/o ever making a mistake he could prove his own righteousness. Because the standard was too high for imperfect men it proved perfect in another sense. It showed that man can not be proved righteous by works. It was a curse because the Jews were oath-bound to follow the Law..and yet they could not help but break it.

The most common theme in Torah is that us Jews must do our best to obey the Law but, as already mentioned, it never was assumed that any mortal could keep the entire Law over their entire lifetime. If we mess up, there are two provisions provided in Torah, one of punishment for that particular violation, and another is for our opportunity to repent and seek forgiveness.

If it it were that the violation of one Law was essentially the violation of them all, then the death penalty would have been cited in Torah for each and every violation. So, if you didn't keep kosher for just one meal, you must die by being stoned. But that's clearly not found in Torah or even hinted at.

As far as forgiveness is concerned, please look up "forgive" and its variations as found in Torah in a concordance, and what you'll see is that we can be forgiven of our sins, and the Temple sacrifices is only one means to do so.

 

[dantech]

The most common theme in Torah is that us Jews must do our best to obey the Law but, as already mentioned, it never was assumed that any mortal could keep the entire Law over their entire lifetime. If we mess up, there are two provisions provided in Torah, one of punishment for that particular violation, and another is for our opportunity to repent and seek forgiveness.

If it it were that the violation of one Law was essentially the violation of them all, then the death penalty would have been cited in Torah for each and every violation. So, if you didn't keep kosher for just one meal, you must die by being stoned. But that's clearly not found in Torah or even hinted at.

As far as forgiveness is concerned, please look up "forgive" and its variations as found in Torah in a concordance, and what you'll see is that we can be forgiven of our sins, and the Temple sacrifices is only one means to do so.

It's worth noting that Temple sacrifices were used mainly to forgive us for our unintentional sins.

 

[Avi1001]

The most common theme in Torah is that us Jews must do our best to obey the Law but, as already mentioned, it never was assumed that any mortal could keep the entire Law over their entire lifetime. If we mess up, there are two provisions provided in Torah, one of punishment for that particular violation, and another is for our opportunity to repent and seek forgiveness.

If it it were that the violation of one Law was essentially the violation of them all, then the death penalty would have been cited in Torah for each and every violation. So, if you didn't keep kosher for just one meal, you must die by being stoned. But that's clearly not found in Torah or even hinted at.

As far as forgiveness is concerned, please look up "forgive" and its variations as found in Torah in a concordance, and what you'll see is that we can be forgiven of our sins, and the Temple sacrifices is only one means to do so.

Metis, in your opinion, does this apply to all the Halacha or more specifically, the ethical and moral ones ?

Also, who sets the criteria for meeting the Halacha ? I would say, we do, as individuals....so it is up to us whether we meet or fail the Halacha.....so it is a subjective rather than objective test......do you agree or disagree?

 

[JM2C]

Also 2Peter 3:16 strongly warned us by saying: “As also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also to the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.”

Peter was talking about Paul’s letters here, did you know that?.
Some of Paul’s letters are really “hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort”

Distort in what way?

Example #1: Romans 11:11 Paul said:

Ro 11:11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious.

But you said or you twisted or “distorted”
NOTE: You said "You wrote Ro 11:11" No, not me Tertius did by Paul's.

IV) You wrote Ro 11:11 "Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all!" God doesn't ply games, ("to make them envious" it is a lie) they are not beyond recovery they only have to believe in Christ to be saved, they still have an advantage over the Gentiles because they have the LAW and the prophets.

Example #2: Romans 11:26 Paul said:

Ro 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.

But you said or you twisted or “distorted”

I) God shows no partiality, in other words we are all the same in God's eyes: Romans 11:26, is a diversion put there by a Jew, it's a lie.

Now you tell me who is rightly dividing the word of God or distorting the word of God? You or Paul?

 

[metis]

It's worth noting that Temple sacrifices were used mainly to forgive us for our unintentional sins.

Oh, I've accumulated tons of those-- just ask my wife.