RAYYAN
Proud Muslim
Is that post suppose to be addressed to me? if so, Why don't you be brave enough and say what you want to say clearly so I can respond- What do you think/
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Are madrassas injecting hatred and breeding terrorists?
- Thread starter morphesium
- Start date
- Status
Sleeppy
Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Well no.. That was a response to the OP.. It doesn't take a whole lot of bravery to respond to a specific person on the internet.
RAYYAN
Proud Muslim
in that case, then please accept my apologies
You should read all 164 jihad verses in the Quran. It is all about fighting,killing, 72 virgins for the martyrs. The only struggle must be of the Jihadists to succeed. I will be posting all the 164 Jihad verses in audio format for those Muslims who cannot read.
Posting twice might be one way to help the 800 million illiterate Muslims who cannot post, be counted. It is no different than the jihadists who also speak for the millions of uneducated Muslims. That is why jihad is also called the Muslim struggle to gain support for Jihad the Islamic war.
RAYYAN
Proud Muslim
ok, so now you are changing the topic, from Marriage of Aisha because you are a failure and can't challenge me or anyone who knows his religion well. anyway, let's keep with your new topic Jihad verses because again, I will show you that you are a failure and a parrot. I won't ask you to list all the verses, but give me your best one. then I will show you your ignorance about the topic. If you are going to do this, at least read so you won't do stupid posts like what you did
RAYYAN
Proud Muslim
Islam means submission to God. For a Muslims this means submission to the Qur'an.
So are you claiming to know the desire of God? You are a prophet?
Personally I'm areligious. The point of my message is that it's man's nature to desire a purpose and and a truth. Islam provides a purpose and a truth. Whether you agree with it or not, it is giving people something they want.
It's a mistake to assume everyone possesses the same inherent moral values. They don't necessarily. That assumption will cause you problems, like the problems the US has caused in there attempts to deal with the Middle-East.
There are people who are raised here. Taught modern moral values who have left to go join ISIS. How do you explain that? Educated people flew plans into the World Trade Center. Training, education, upbringing are part of the picture, but only part. You are missing something because there are obvious holes in your idealism. Not everyone thinks like you, not everyone has the same morality you do. You have to realize that.
The reality is there is religion. It gives people something they want. What do you have to offer them?
It's not about the religion, it's about the behavior. There are peaceful Muslims and Christian. There are also violent ones.
Those peaceful religious folks, what do I care about there beliefs.
People are born with certain personality traits. Something that is controlled by genetics. It affects their early behavior, it affects their outlook on life, it affects their morality.
Their aggressiveness, their passiveness. I think they've determined 9 traits a person is born with that don't change, it's just who they are. They are not going to change because of education or upbringing. these will effect how the individual deals with education and upbringing.
Maybe someday science will figure how to alter these personality traits. Then maybe you can breed a group of passive humans who will accept your authority over how they should live their life.
Last edited:
Apply some critical thinking and you will be less offended by the truth.
Aisha was 6 when the prophet was 52. Aisha turned 18 when the prophet died. But we know Aisha did not have any children from Mohammad. So what were the reasons the prophet's favourite and only Virgin wife did not have children?
Reason 1. The prophet was banging her before she was of child bearing years which might have been the first few years of their marriage when she was between 6 to 12 years old.
Reason 2. By the time Aisha reached puberty Mohammad was over 60 years old and too old to think of children especially with all the other slaves he was messing with.
Reason 3. Aisha might have been damaged by the prophet who was only six when she married him and by 9 was living with him. Recent child bride deaths and uncontrollable bleeding among Yemen Muslim child brides is proof sex before puberty is extremely dangerous.
Muslims should seek medical advice rather than follow an illiterate prophet who didn't know any better and married a 6 year old girl.
RAYYAN
Proud Muslim
@Harikrish
everything you said is just your opinion which doesn't worth a dirt. Show me your sources.
everything you said is just your opinion which doesn't worth a dirt. Show me your sources.
morphesium
Active Member
Islam is derived from the Arabic word Salema which means - Peace , purity, submission and obedience
Yes, its human nature to desire - desire for creativity. hence science, arts and all good things progress. Religion is against creativity, it fears free will. In order to suppress freewill, it force-feeds violence and war. But then it is not human nature.
(If God gifted you hands, god gifted you legs, etc, etc, God gifted you a brain. there is nothing wrong in using it.)
No, once you have freewill, you understand that Your religion is robbing your life, your creativity. These are the things god gifted you.
Yes I do Agree on this. Its moral values that I too care for (but not religious).
Many scientific studies have shown that if kids are brought up in an aggressive, low moral atmosphere, they too tend to be very aggressive one with less moral. They have much less free thinking. on the other hand, if they are brought up in a peaceful atmosphere, it is the other way. ( even there is a saying in my native language (on how to bring up a child)- which I am translating here - Love a child and he will love the world.)
Here is an experiment that was conducted on a few dozen animals that shows the effect stress on free thinking .
This study was conducted with sheeps. 4o sheeps were grouped in two sets of 20 each. In one group, sheeps had a very stressful life and on the other, they were kept stress free with quality food etc. after two weeks or so, they were put in a rectangular boxes in which they could move to fro but the doors on the side were locked. Food and water was place on the opposite side of these rectangular boxes. and after some time, without the animals knowing, the side doors were opened. Those sheep that had a stressful life, did not come out of the door where as those animals that were stress free quickly came out of the door. this shows the effect of freethinking and stressful life. Stressful and aggressive life is against free thinking.
Reality is that religion gives nothing. If you can be honest with your self, then you will be able to find a lot of things in your religion that you cant agree with. (for this you will have to approach it with free will though). Religion killed people who said sun is at the center, Religion killed people for no reason. Progress of science had given much more to humanity. I dont know where you are from- but I do believe that science had done more good to you (through medicine, through good food etc than religion has done. Of-course, Religion has a pacifying nature, but even that can be achieved scientifically with out religion.
but it has nothing to do with religion.
Of-course they will. People can either have a better or worse personality and morale depending how they are trained. In sri -lanka, a few years back there were a lot of LTTE militants. now there is hardly any. why, because there are no more terrorists left to train others. why do you think some part of the world has more terrorists than others.
If people are trained to act peacfully, there will be peace. thought to love, then they will love the world. give them free thinking, then science and art and all good things will flourish. One will witness the golden age of humanity.
No, I am someone with free will and rational thinking. There are no prophets in the real world. (somewhere on the internet, when I searched for the prophet's deeds (During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them. (Bukhari 5.58.188) where do you find monkeys stoning to death ? Can this adultry be done as a single person act? No. Why didnt they stone the male monkey? There are many animals out there that keep different types of sexual relations. Even there is homosexuality in animals . ( these are scientifically doucmented and proved), but you don't see stoning to death in these animals. Additionaly, does these make sense to you? Trust me, God Gifted us with a good brain. Use it, think.
Yes, its human nature to desire - desire for creativity. hence science, arts and all good things progress. Religion is against creativity, it fears free will. In order to suppress freewill, it force-feeds violence and war. But then it is not human nature.
(If God gifted you hands, god gifted you legs, etc, etc, God gifted you a brain. there is nothing wrong in using it.)
No, once you have freewill, you understand that Your religion is robbing your life, your creativity. These are the things god gifted you.
Yes I do Agree on this. Its moral values that I too care for (but not religious).
Many scientific studies have shown that if kids are brought up in an aggressive, low moral atmosphere, they too tend to be very aggressive one with less moral. They have much less free thinking. on the other hand, if they are brought up in a peaceful atmosphere, it is the other way. ( even there is a saying in my native language (on how to bring up a child)- which I am translating here - Love a child and he will love the world.)
Here is an experiment that was conducted on a few dozen animals that shows the effect stress on free thinking .
This study was conducted with sheeps. 4o sheeps were grouped in two sets of 20 each. In one group, sheeps had a very stressful life and on the other, they were kept stress free with quality food etc. after two weeks or so, they were put in a rectangular boxes in which they could move to fro but the doors on the side were locked. Food and water was place on the opposite side of these rectangular boxes. and after some time, without the animals knowing, the side doors were opened. Those sheep that had a stressful life, did not come out of the door where as those animals that were stress free quickly came out of the door. this shows the effect of freethinking and stressful life. Stressful and aggressive life is against free thinking.
make some one to do an act (reading news paper, praying etc) continuously for 21 days - then it will turn into a habit. He will prefer to do that again. ( this is a psychological effect). These people were trained. Trained so much that they couldn't make use of their free will despite their education. they were trapped in their low-moral thinking because they were deeply religious.
Reality is that religion gives nothing. If you can be honest with your self, then you will be able to find a lot of things in your religion that you cant agree with. (for this you will have to approach it with free will though). Religion killed people who said sun is at the center, Religion killed people for no reason. Progress of science had given much more to humanity. I dont know where you are from- but I do believe that science had done more good to you (through medicine, through good food etc than religion has done. Of-course, Religion has a pacifying nature, but even that can be achieved scientifically with out religion.
Consider an average present day peaceful Christian who is very sure that the sun is at the center of the solar system. who knows the position of the internal organs in the body. Put this person in front of 13 century Peaceful Christians (at the time when Christianity was at dark ages), Let the present day christian explain to them about sun center theory and the old Christians would burn him alive thinking that he is talking unholy things.. what crime has he done? that is the curse of religion.
but it has nothing to do with religion.
Of-course they will. People can either have a better or worse personality and morale depending how they are trained. In sri -lanka, a few years back there were a lot of LTTE militants. now there is hardly any. why, because there are no more terrorists left to train others. why do you think some part of the world has more terrorists than others.
If people are trained to act peacfully, there will be peace. thought to love, then they will love the world. give them free thinking, then science and art and all good things will flourish. One will witness the golden age of humanity.
I honestly dunno what Madrassa means (with capital M), but the word madrasah is an Arabic word that simply means school. The schools I attended we all called madrasah and we learn that God does not tell us to neglect those non Muslims who do not want to fight us for our religion or want to exile us from our homes. Common sense.
I'm a native Makkan Muslim, and as you know Makkah the the birth place of Islam, and I've never studied such things and never heard of it here.
I however do not disagree with you. Maybe this Madrassa is a new terminology used by terrorists for special gatherings to bread terrorists. Those terrorists don't just worry non Muslims, they worry other normal Muslims like myself. Non Muslims as humans just like Muslims.
Did you report them to the authorities? You can also report it to the embassy/consulate of the country they belong to, if they are not locals.
Prophet Muhammad visit his sick Jewish neighbor, accepted invitations from the Jews, and married a Christian woman.
Side note:
A school of fish is called madrasah too in Arabic
Poeticus
| abhyAvartin |
King Smart Guy (it's me, Wordsmith), I have a question for you. I'll ask you the same thing that I asked Ravyyan:
If you have a daughter and she falls in love with a kafir and wishes to marry him and he doesn't want to convert, are you going to allow your daughter to marry him without ostracizing her? Please keep in mind, she's totally a-okay with marrying a kafir and believes that love is more important than one's religious identity; and therefore, she doesn't mind that he doesn't want to convert.
Hey there, Wordsmith
I honestly don't know. Answering that requires reflecting for so long. It is my daughter we are talking about here
I would like to know, and forgive me for my rudeness, how is that related to non Muslims being as human as Muslims? Some people might not want their daughters to marry, let's say, someone simply for being lazy, violent, dangerous, too old, etc. The lazy is as humans too. It is a matter of deserve. A janitor don't deserve the salary of a doctor, for example.
Last edited:
morphesium
Active Member
Nice to hear these from you. You definitely had proper schooling (madrasah). I respect that.
It seems I misspelled madrasah. Even though most of my post are against religious beliefs, I do know personally very fine people who are either (Muslims,Hindus or Christians) with varying degree of faiths and I believe that these people will be the same even without religion.
Unfortunately, the authorities know about such things but they wont take action due to the interference of politics. - I hope for a change. I have a few Muslim friends here who even say that they should stop madrasah education, because of this nature saying that they are breeding terrorism. One of my friend, who now visits temple frequently (personally, I am against these too), said that at the time of his madrasah schooling, he said that he just couldn't accept anyone other than Muslims and that even killing non-Muslims was rewarding. Hopefully, this man changed a lot.
Thanks you. And it was here in Saudi Arabia, the most radical Muslim country the Media says to be.
No worries about the spelling. It's a foreign word after all. What matters is the recognizable pronunciation. Also, don't worry about your feelings against religions. They are views and opinions that do not hurt anyone. I personally don't think I'd be the same without my religion. But that's another subject. I only ask of you, and forgive me for imposing like that, to kindly try to not show harshness in your posts. Good people will most likely accept any kind of criticism as long as it won't intentionally insult them and their beliefs with direct wordings like profanity and name calling, or between the lines implied offenses. I think that is one way to partially know good people.
I understand that it is some kinda a foreign establishment? Try reporting them to the embassy/consulate. Sometimes their countries, even if seemed radical and extremest, could have laws against such events. I guess it is worth a try. I believe it is part of our civil responsibilities to try such measurements to help spreading piece and security. I hope that Muslim friend of yours change even more.
Poeticus
| abhyAvartin |
Hey there, Wordsmith
I honestly don't know. Answering that requires reflecting for so long. It is my daughter we are talking about here
I would like to know, and forgive me for my rudeness, how is that related to non Muslims being as human as Muslims? Some people might not want their daughters to marry, let's say, someone simply for being lazy, violent, dangerous, too old, etc. The lazy is as humans too. It is a matter of deserve. A janitor don't deserve the salary of a doctor, for example.
Think about it this way: the man she will be marrying is her age. Let's say they both are post-college graduates with wonderful careers and make a good amount of money. Also, he is far from being lazy, is definitely not violent or dangerous.
However, he is an infidel, a kafir. Yet your daughter loves this fella and wants to marry him and doesn't care that he is not Muslim. And he doesn't want to convert. Both of them want to have a civil marriage, and both of them will raise any children they have as hybrids of their two faiths.
Will you be like most Islamic rigorists and condemn such a match and ostracize your daughter? Or will you be the progressive Muslim and allow your Muslim daughter to marry whomever she chooses as long as she's happy and has made a smart and responsible choice?
I gave that lazy thing as an example for other possible reason people would not allow their daughters to do whatever they want.
I think I'll be in the middle. I'd disapprove of it, but not stop her to make her own choice in respecting or ignoring my wishes. I'd do that because I believe it is good for her. I believe you would do what you believe good for your daughter sometimes even against her wishes.
I wouldn't do a similar thing to my parents (would you, if I may ask?) the ones that raised me the best they could, sacrificed their own freedom for me, and helped in making me the man you see. This specific example is not just a religious identity, it is cultural, parental, respect-oriented and law-abiding. If I go against their wishes in such a matter, I'd not be a good person.
Please don't hate me for that answer. Rules are rules, and everyone have their own rules, including you and myself. There are rules you certainly don't want to be broken, aren't there?
I'd like to revoke my exclamation from before. What does that have to do with having non Muslims as humans as Muslims? And why would my decision make me a bad person? All I did was not approving of my daughter not marrying a non Muslim. I only applied one of the laws I follow. It is not like I absolutely gave her no choice or did her harm.
Strict, I know, but please understand my position and feelings. I respect other cultures and religions doing things their way. I don't have the right to criticize them for it. I'd like the same towards me.
Note:
I don't use the word "kafir" with non Muslims. Some are offended by it, so I respect their feelings and never use it.
Poeticus
| abhyAvartin |
You most certainly did give her a choice in this hypothetical scenario. And I have to say, that's surprising for me. You see, most Muslim males that I have encountered online and IRL are so repulsed by the idea. For me, it reeks of patriarchal undertones. And many have said outright that they reject such relationships not only because it goes against the Quran but also because they do not see kafirs as worthy---not unless they convert (which goes back to the whole "non-Muslims as humans" thingy). And in my honest opinion, as many progressives also opine, conversion for marriage is restrictive and often gender stratifying. Either way, I thank you for your honest [and detailed] answer.
- Status