Are madrassas injecting hatred and breeding terrorists?

[icehorse]

Nakosis,

From your earlier post do I gather correctly that you feel that the ideology (as captured in the scripture for the last 1400 years), isn't an influence on behavior?

I'm NOT saying the ideology is the only factor, but I am saying the ideology is a SIGNIFICANT factor. Remember, across 1400 years, and now across many cultures (from West Africa to north Africa to the ME, to SW Asia to Indonesia), a large percentage of Muslims believe exactly what the scripture tells them to believe.

Are you saying the scripture has no impact on the behaviors of Muslims?

 

[Tali018]

No.

Linky:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/14/opinion/14bergen.html?_r=0

 

[icehorse]

No.

Linky:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/14/opinion/14bergen.html?_r=0

Sorry, this is one big strawman. The article takes a very literal stance on the question of educating terrorists. It says nothing about the other question in the OP, that of "injecting hatred".

The first verse of the Quran, the one said five times a day by half of the world's Muslims, for a total of FOUR BILLION TIMES A DAY, ends with the phrase (summarized): "Allah is angry with the Jews and Christians".

This is indoctrination pure and simple.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hands up if you have read the Koran and are not a terrorist!

*raises hand* And I am also not a Muslim. So it didn't convert me to either. I like some parts of it though, like taking care of the earth, planting a fruit bearing tree, and getting along with everybody.

 

[Tali018]

...... Muslim girls are married before they are old enough to make decisions for themselves or exercise free choice. Girls as young as 6 years is the official guideline but they can be married earlier if they show any maturity or independence exceeding their male partners.

Youngest Muslim child bride. You can see she is still teething!!!

Please show your source for your accusation. Otherwise this was simply a child in a hijab and I'm guessing this is where you got the photo from:
Grrrl Power! Girls Studies at UCF: marriage before menstruation

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Sorry, this is one big strawman. The article takes a very literal stance on the question of educating terrorists. It says nothing about the other question in the OP, that of "injecting hatred".

The first verse of the Quran, the one said five times a day by half of the world's Muslims, for a total of FOUR BILLION TIMES A DAY, ends with the phrase (summarized): "Allah is angry with the Jews and Christians".

This is indoctrination pure and simple.

Wrong.
In the name of Allah , the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful.
...
Guide us to the straight path
The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor, not of those who have evoked [Your] anger or of those who are astray.

I don't see anything about Allah being angry with the Jews and Christians. However, the Koran does instruct those who follow Islam to get along with Jews and Christians because they are all Muslim, a word that simply means submissive to god.

 

[Tali018]

Sorry, this is one big strawman. The article takes a very literal stance on the question of educating terrorists. It says nothing about the other question in the OP, that of "injecting hatred".

The first verse of the Quran, the one said five times a day by half of the world's Muslims, for a total of FOUR BILLION TIMES A DAY, ends with the phrase (summarized): "Allah is angry with the Jews and Christians".

This is indoctrination pure and simple.

Here is a linky. Where?
The Five Daily Prayers [with sound support for correct pronunciation and illustrations for correct positioning!]

 

[icehorse]

Hey Shadow Wolf,

Notice that I said summarized. Here's how the most commonly printed translation reads:

7. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).

So are you splitting hairs?

 

[Tali018]

And another linky:
Weekly Homework » Sunday Madrassa

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hey Shadow Wolf,

Notice that I said summarized. Here's how the most commonly printed translation reads:



So are you splitting hairs?

You didn't say summarize, and I have no idea where you're getting the Jews and Christians part from.
Surat Al-Fatihah [1:7] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم
The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor, not of those who have evoked [Your] anger or of those who are astray. My print copy, which I am told is one of the better English translations, does not include Jews and Christians.

 

[icehorse]

You didn't say summarize, and I have no idea where you're getting the Jews and Christians part from.
Surat Al-Fatihah [1:7] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم
The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor, not of those who have evoked [Your] anger or of those who are astray. My print copy, which I am told is one of the better English translations, does not include Jews and Christians.

Hey Shadow Wolf,

I don't know what else to say. I clearly indicated that I was summarizing, and I quoted letter for letter from the version of the Quran that I read. AND from what I understand, this is the most commonly reprinted English translation in the world.

Also, many Muslims have told me that all Muslims know exactly whose being referred to in that first verse.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hey Shadow Wolf,

I don't know what else to say. I clearly indicated that I was summarizing, and I quoted letter for letter from the version of the Quran that I read. AND from what I understand, this is the most commonly reprinted English translation in the world.

Also, many Muslims have told me that all Muslims know exactly whose being referred to in that first verse.

It doesn't make any since that it would refer to Jews and Christians though, when the Quran explicitly states they (no one at all) are not be forcefully converted, they are to be respected, and they too are Muslim.

 

[icehorse]

It doesn't make any since that it would refer to Jews and Christians though, when the Quran explicitly states they (no one at all) are not be forcefully converted, they are to be respected, and they too are Muslim.

Shadow Wolf,

The Quran is filled with inconsistencies - as is all scripture. But keep in mind this idea. Most Muslims haven't read the Quran, but many of them say that prayer. And they know their god is angry at Jews and Christians. They never read further to find inconsistencies, that's the message they take away. Why? Because they repeat that verse five times a day, every day of their lives.

 

[Smart_Guy]

You most certainly did give her a choice in this hypothetical scenario. And I have to say, that's surprising for me. You see, most Muslim males that I have encountered online and IRL are so repulsed by the idea. For me, it reeks of patriarchal undertones. And many have said outright that they reject such relationships not only because it goes against the Quran but also because they do not see kafirs as worthy---not unless they convert (which goes back to the whole "non-Muslims as humans" thingy). And in my honest opinion, as many progressives also opine, conversion for marriage is restrictive and often gender stratifying. Either way, I thank you for your honest [and detailed] answer.

Thank you for your understanding.

There is something I forgot to mention. My preference of not having a non Muslim husband for my daughter, is not plainly because he's a non Muslim. Even if he was Muslim, I wouldn't just approve blindly, and I mean my side of the equation.

I'm only doing this out of love for my daughter. Out of caring for her future having her own family.

Meanwhile, I see from some non Muslims when they simply know a person is a Muslim, without knowing well about them, they make a problem out of it.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

According to accounts from the AHL al-Bayt (ﻉ) and a statement addressing the meaning of the verse: ﴿غير wrath and not الضالين﴾ (1) the meaning of wrath they are Jews, and the Christians gone astray are intended (2), and some said that the wrath they the tiring which put the animosity of the AHL al-Bayt (ﻉ) and stray they the in doubt (3) who does not know the Imam (as) any who do not believe in Imamate.



The novels referred to are not in the interpretation of the meaning of wrath and the meaning of depraved but in application and some naturally these addresses, the almstzher of the meaning of the verse is absolute perverts line God and situations of indignation are wrath, and absolute drifters line God ignorant of true doctrine assets are gone astray.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Thank you for your understanding.

There is something I forgot to mention. My preference of not having a non Muslim husband for my daughter, is not plainly because he's a non Muslim. Even if he was Muslim, I wouldn't just approve blindly, and I mean my side of the equation.

I'm only doing this out of love for my daughter. Out of caring for her future having her own family.

Meanwhile, I see from some non Muslims when they simply know a person is a Muslim, without knowing well about them, they make a problem out of it.

Allah says: {and they marry the polytheist not so secure and secure nation is better than even socialization smartphoneography Gallery and they marry the pagans even believe and Abdul Momin is better than an unbeliever if you like those calling for fire and God calls to paradise and forgiveness with the authorization of shows his signs to people that they might remember}. [Surat al-baqarah: 221].

Indication the verse to prohibit marriage of a Muslim woman to a non-Muslim is not disputed between the commentators and opinio in advance and succeed, meaning every non-Muslim infidel or whether Gentile Pagans or Magi, from the people of the book, here are some العلماءويقول by Dr. ' Abd al-Kareem Zaydaan said: "and the prohibition of marriage of a Muslim woman to a non-Muslim man is forbidden and cut whatever religion is any either of the people of the book – the Jews or the Christians – or Pagan or Magus or condemn any religion...". [Detailed: c 7 p. 6].

 

[oldbadger]

From my experiance, YES

A few years back, I happened to walk beside a madrassa and they were teaching youngsters aged 6 or 7 and this was what I heard. Muslims are the only human beings. The rest look like us - but they are all animals.

Brain washing them to be future terrorist. They are destined to throw human kind into dark age.

Hello morphesium.
I live in England. Some Muslim parents and Madrassas have come under close scrutiny here because they have been cruel to children and because they have not followed the Government's laid down syllabus.
If schools do not follow agreed standards, methods and curriculums then they can either be closed ot have their funding removed.
Recent atrocities and terrorist attacks in our country have caused our Government to become very strict about how children are educated.

Last year there was a very aggressive debate, centred around a mother who beat her child because he was having difficulty in learning the Koran by heart. He died and she tried to cover up the murder by burning her house down. Some Muslims are taught that if their children can become Hafiz (spelling?) then they, the parents, will have a place in heaven.

We are becoming more careful now about the way in which all children are taught here.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Last year there was a very aggressive debate, centred around a mother who beat her child because he was having difficulty in learning the Koran by heart. He died and she tried to cover up the murder by burning her house down. Some Muslims are taught that if their children can become Hafiz (spelling?) then they, the parents, will have a place in heaven.

This is bad

How do they expect going to heaven like that? If they knew Islam well, they should also know that they are abusing their power and betraying the entrust God gave to them, not to mention killing a human being, which is forbidden. That alone could forbid them from heaven.

The Quran itself says that no one should be burdened above their capability, and mainly to each their own deeds, and also to never kills the innocent.

Prioritizing memorization of the Quran over understanding it is plain wrong.

I honestly think that schools build specifically for religious teachings should be very carefully monitored or maybe not allowed in the first place.

 

[Harikrish]

@Harikrish
everything you said is just your opinion which doesn't worth a dirt. Show me your sources.

Are a Muslim you should know your own prophet and his only virgin wife Aisha whom he married when she was only 6 years old. Muslims today follow his example and marry child brides.

 

[beenie]

^ Where is that photo from? What is it?