MD
qualiaphile
I am not trying to convince him. I know he is an enemy of reason and peace. But there are many in the West who support and defend them. I am trying to show them the truth.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Are madrassas injecting hatred and breeding terrorists?
- Thread starter morphesium
- Start date
- Status
I am not trying to convince him. I know he is an enemy of reason and peace. But there are many in the West who support and defend them. I am trying to show them the truth.
Christian20
Member
Yes that's all we can do. Goodluck and peace!!
RAYYAN
Proud Muslim
A messenger is a human too. didn't you know that!
Where is the part of Islam here! you are talking about countries not Islam
Aren't you Yezidi? aren't you a Muslim?
if you don't want to debate, then stop replying, I am giving you logical answers to your questions that you fail to support it is Islam's fault
RAYYAN
Proud Muslim
Hi RAYYAN,
Winding back to before the bickering... Some of the things you've said you personally believe in or don't believe in seem very unusual for a Muslim. Is there a book somewhere that describes your particular definition of Islam. The problem I see here is that if you keep being fast-and-loose with what Islam *is*, there is nothing to discuss with you. I can tell you that some of the things I don't like about Islam are:
- punishment for apostasy
- treating women as second class and mentally inferior to men
- perniciously spreading Sharia into secular states
- promoting blasphemy over freedom of expression
- intolerance towards minorities and other religions
These are all built in to the scripture, and these are all evident in the behaviors of millions and millions of Muslims over the last 1400 years. So perhaps you've got a different style of Islam you're promoting?
Winding back to before the bickering... Some of the things you've said you personally believe in or don't believe in seem very unusual for a Muslim. Is there a book somewhere that describes your particular definition of Islam. The problem I see here is that if you keep being fast-and-loose with what Islam *is*, there is nothing to discuss with you. I can tell you that some of the things I don't like about Islam are:
- punishment for apostasy
- treating women as second class and mentally inferior to men
- perniciously spreading Sharia into secular states
- promoting blasphemy over freedom of expression
- intolerance towards minorities and other religions
These are all built in to the scripture, and these are all evident in the behaviors of millions and millions of Muslims over the last 1400 years. So perhaps you've got a different style of Islam you're promoting?
Passing with flying colors they say, eh?
I'm at work now and Youtube is blocked. But that was part of what I was saying, it is true having an intercourse with a child is wrong, but we do not know how things were there then. Things in every aspect. Even the Hadeeth that says it, is controversial. I lean towards not accepting it at all actually. It could have been 16 and 19 instead of 6 and 9, maybe she was mature enough that she asked for it herself, maybe this maybe that, etc.
We have a saying here that roughly translates too "if the reason is know, wonder is gone"... Wooh, I managed to make it almost rhyme
There are things Prophet Muhammad was allowed, for specific reasons not just for the fun of it, and we are not. Our case here could be one of them, who knows. I tell all Muslims to not take that hadeeth into application. Do not marry little girls. It is not Quran to take it for that serious. It was some kinda story narrated by Aisha herself and not some religious instructions given.
Bottom line is; this issue is controversial. I don't think it is fare to debate it. I'm a practicing Muslim raised in the home of Islam. Believe me, in this I know good enough. My application of Islam is a cohesive and coherent result of Islam as a whole, not out of context cherry picked parts.
I'm also extremely handsome. But that's another story
DawudTalut
Peace be upon you.
Peace be on everyone...Though these things are pointed to other person.
But may I say from Ahmadiyya Muslim point of view that:
1-These things are not in Holy Quran.
2-Yes they are been practiced so but it other weaknesses which enter into masses and become part.
3-Millions upon millions think Jesus as literal son of God and he took sins of humanity. In the light of Torah, Gospel and Quran, it is not true. Obviously people misunderstood things about Jesus grossly and now such creed has become central part of Christian faith.
APOSTASY - Holy Quran (ch4:v138)
Those who believe, then disbelieve, then again believe, then disbelieve and then increase in disbelief, Allah will never forgive them nor will He guide them to the right way.
This verse proclaims that persons who renounce Islam have the opportunity to re-enter Islam if they so choose. This verse disproves the assertion that according to the Holy Quran an apostate should be put to death. Were death the automatic punishment for an apostate then there arises no question of having the opportunity to join Islam again. This verse mentions apostates who again accept Islam.
REBELLION AGAINST STATE:
Punishment of Apostacy in Islam
4-Ahamdiyya muslims are severe victims of these misunderstandings at various places, but they stand firm to correct thing back to normal, by the help of God the Exalted, that what Promised Reform is.
DawudTalut
Peace be upon you.
Peace be on all.
Madrassas from good beginning to now problems
How Ahmadiyya Muslim scholar lady writer from USA sees it.
page 30
Link @ https://www.alislam.org/topics/reply/2010_spring.pdf
Madrassas from good beginning to now problems
How Ahmadiyya Muslim scholar lady writer from USA sees it.
page 30
Link @ https://www.alislam.org/topics/reply/2010_spring.pdf
Hi DawudTalut,
First, isn't it the case that Islam is defined BOTH by the Quran and the Hadith?
Second, why does Ayaan Hirsi Ali need to travel with bodyguards? Because she's a vocal apostate and many Muslims believe she should be punished.
Third, according to recent (large, worldwide), polls, hundreds of MILLIONS of Muslims share the belief that apostasy should bring the death penalty. So, who understands Islam correctly... you? or hundreds of MILLIONS of Muslims?
First, isn't it the case that Islam is defined BOTH by the Quran and the Hadith?
Second, why does Ayaan Hirsi Ali need to travel with bodyguards? Because she's a vocal apostate and many Muslims believe she should be punished.
Third, according to recent (large, worldwide), polls, hundreds of MILLIONS of Muslims share the belief that apostasy should bring the death penalty. So, who understands Islam correctly... you? or hundreds of MILLIONS of Muslims?
Christian20
Member
Passing with flying colors they say, eh?
I'm at work now and Youtube is blocked. But that was part of what I was saying, it is true having an intercourse with a child is wrong, but we do not know how things were there then. Things in every aspect. Even the Hadith that says it, is controversial. I lean towards not accepting it at all actually. It could have been 16 and 19 instead of 6 and 9, maybe she was mature enough that she asked for it herself, maybe this maybe that, etc.
We have a saying here that roughly translates too "if the reason is know, wonder is gone"... Wooh, I managed to make it almost rhyme
There are things Prophet Muhammad was allowed, for specific reasons not just for the fun of it, and we are not. Our case here could be one of them, who knows. I tell all Muslims to not take that hadeeth into application. Do not marry little girls. It is not Quran to take it for that serious. It was some kinda story narrated by Aisha herself and not some religious instructions given.
Bottom line is; this issue is controversial. I don't think it is fare to debate it. I'm a practicing Muslim raised in the home of Islam. Believe me, in this I know good enough. My application of Islam is a cohesive and coherent result of Islam as a whole, not out of context cherry picked parts.
I'm also extremely handsome. But that's another story
Haha indeed you passed with a 10 lol!
And i believe what i see written. Eventhough you may not take the Hadeeth into perspective it is a part of the Islam, it is a handbook how to live your life aswell.
I don't make excuses to make his actions right.
I know he did more then just that he made some mistakes and people are following it and in some parts of the world acting like it.
And that it is indeed very controversial.
I'm a woman who really knows my rights, and likes to be treated equal. But i feel like the religion downgrades woman.
Let me give you an example,
We as woman have to obey the man. We have to be housewives, we cannot work.
We have to cover ourselfs.
When the male wants sexual intercorse, we must give it to him, and i absolutely don't like that.
And that the male can have more wives.
I personally believe Prophet Mohammed, lived the life, i mean he had a'lot of sex back in the days.
And when you die you are promised beautiful woman and even the features are explained of what the woman will look like.
That for me is the least important thing.
When i go to heaven i don't want hot guys with muscles waiting for me and stuff like that, i want a happy life of internity.
In Christianity we also have the New testament and other things but they all are still true and make sense.
But let me just ask you this because i i've been wondering, what is it about Christianty that you chose the Islam? I've given you my point of view why so i'm wondering what's your's!
Last edited:
DawudTalut
Peace be upon you.
Peace be on you. It may sound strange...But the true answer is:
The Ahmadiyya Muslim undestands true Islam.
Not a mere boast.
But there are reasons; the details you may please in Ahmadiyya DIR.
In short, Islam by way of Holy Quran and by way of Sayings of Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) foretold through well connected, un-forgeable ways about the moral, knowledge, economical and other conditions of the world and Muslims would be. Among these condition it is clearly mentioned that The Promised Reformer (Messiah - the Mahdi) will be Hakam and Adal [Judge and Arbiter], and he will teach the pure teaching of Islam.
Accompaying signs were mentioned , which were seen and Million accepted the man appreaded in 1889 in india, now his Fifth Khalifah in Office in UK, (alislam.org)
Many so far have not believed and rsisted, but they are realizing and keep understanding and coming.
More in INTRODUCTION TO THE STUDY OF HOLY QURAN at https://www.alislam.org/library/books/Introduction-Study-Holy-Quran.pdf
Christian20
Member
I agree with you on everything you just said!
Christian20
Member
Just because the Qoran says that in the Bible Jesus isn't mentioned to be god or the son of god, that diesn't mean that it's true. I know for a fact that you have never read the Bible. You just follow your parents their footsteps.
If i tell you to go and read a bible and read the facts for yourself, you would be afraid of the truth.
The BIBLE who was 600 years before the Islam said, "there will come many Prophets who claim that they are a messenger from god, do not believe"
And what do you guys do? Believe the very first one who came.
Jesus did wonders, jesus brought love and life when he was on earth.
Mohammed killed, and NEVER did any wonders.
I just would like to advice you to read the Bible.
DawudTalut
Peace be upon you.
Just because the Qoran says that in the Bible Jesus isn't mentioned to be god or the son of god, that diesn't mean that it's true. I know for a fact that you have never read the Bible. You just follow your parents their footsteps.
If i tell you to go and read a bible and read the facts for yourself, you would be afraid of the truth.
The BIBLE who was 600 years before the Islam said, "there will come many Prophets who claim that they are a messenger from god, do not believe"
And what do you guys do? Believe the very first one who came.
Jesus did wonders, jesus brought love and life when he was on earth.
Mohammed killed, and NEVER did any wonders.
I just would like to advice you to read the Bible.
Peace be on you.
Thanks for advice.
QUOTE:
JESUS NOT THE FIRST BORN SON:
ANGELS
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and satan was among them. JOB 1.6 & 2:1
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy. JOB 38.7
CHILDREN OF RIGHTEOUS:
That the sons of god saw the daughters of men that they were fair. GENESIS 6.2
THE ISRAELITES:
And thou shalt say to Pharaoh. Thus said the Lord, Israel is my son, even my first born. EXODUS 4.22
And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me. EXODUS 4.23
You are the children of the Lord, your God. DEUTERONOMY 14.1
Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea. Ye are the sons of the living God. HOSEA 1.10
When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt. HOSEA 11.1
JUDGES OF ISRAEL:
I have said ye are gods: and all of you are the children of God. PSALMS 82.6
EPHRAIM:
Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him. JEREMIAH 31.20
I am father to Israel, and Ephraim is my first born. JEREMIAH 31.9
DAVID:
I will declare thee a decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. PSALMS 2.7
Also I will make him my first born. PSALMS 69:37
SOLOMON:
He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father. I CHRONICLES 22.10
I will be his father, and he shall be my son. 2 SAMUEL 7.14
And he said unto me, Solomon thy son, he shall build my house and my courts for I have chosen him to be my son, and I will be his father. 1 CHRONICLES 28.6
ADAM:
Adam, which was the son of God. LUKE 3.38
OTHER CHILDREN OF GOD:
THE RIGHTEOUS:
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. ROMANS 8.14
The spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God. ROMANS 8.16
Love your enemy, bless them that curse thee, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them that despitefully use and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven. MATTHEW 5.44/45
CHRIST'S DISCIPLES:
And because ye are sons of God, God hath sent forth the spirit of his son into your hearts crying, Abba, Father. GALATIANS 4.6
CHRIST'S FOLLOWERS:
But as many as received him, to them he gave the power to become the sons of God. JOHN 1.12
For you are the children of God by faith in Jesus Christ GALATIANS 3.25.
BELIEVERS:
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God. I JOHN 5.1
PEACEMAKERS:
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the sons of God. MATTHEW 5.9
CHRIST'S DENIAL OF SONSHIP:
And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus said unto him, Thou hast said; nevertheless, I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. MATTHEW 26.63/64
And the devils also came out of many, crying out and saying; Thou art Christ, the Son of God. And he, rebuking them, suffered them not to speak, for they knew that he was Christ. LUKE 4.41
Source link: A Pocket Book of Biblical References: Son of God
Haha indeed you passed with a 10 lol!
And i believe what i see written. Eventhough you may not take the Hadeeth into perspective it is a part of the Islam, it is a handbook how to live your life aswell.
I don't make excuses to make his actions right.
I know he did more then just that he made some mistakes and people are following it and in some parts of the world acting like it.
And that it is indeed very controversial.
I'm a woman who really knows my rights, and likes to be treated equal. But i feel like the religion downgrades woman.
Let me give you an example,
We as woman have to obey the man. We have to be housewives, we cannot work.
We have to cover ourselfs.
When the male wants sexual intercorse, we must give it to him, and i absolutely don't like that.
And that the male can have more wives.
I personally believe Prophet Mohammed, lived the life, i mean he had a'lot of sex back in the days.
And when you die you are promised beautiful woman and even the features are explained of what the woman will look like.
That for me is the least important thing.
When i go to heaven i don't want hot guys with muscles waiting for me and stuff like that, i want a happy life of internity.
In Christianity we also have the New testament and other things but they all are still true and make sense.
But let me just ask you this because i i've been wondering, what is it about Christianty that you chose the Islam? I've given you my point of view why so i'm wondering what's your's!
Well those are your views and I accept your feelings and will not discuss it more. But honestly, I don't agree with them, and see the parts you mentioned are there for a reason and with good logical explanations. Women here, for example, work and even own things in their names. That does not mean I don't respect your views, I actually respect all people as long as they don't wish me, my family or my religion direct harm. I actually joined RF mainly to make friends of different beliefs and ethnicity, not to question people.
Hot guys with muscles, lol
Even I don't want those
The main reason I chose Islam over modern Christianity is the identity of God. In Islam God is a One that's not comparable to any, that was not born or had offspring. A God that is a creator and not created by any means of definitions. A God with absolute well and power. There are some other minor reasons like having Islam as a way of life as well as a religion, things like cleanliness, respect for parents specially the mother, smiling at people, and other ways of life.
That of course does not mean I have a thing against Christianity. I consider Christian and Jews my religious ancestors. Generally speaking, I care for all people no matter what their belief orientations are. I only don't want them to wish me harm as I don't wish them harm.
Last edited:
Christian20
Member
like i said before, you should read the bible.
Yerda
Veteran Member
Sorry, what was I defending and was wrong about?
mahasn ebn sawresho
Well-Known Member
Well those are your views and I accept your feelings and will not discuss it more. But honestly, I don't agree with them, and see the parts you mentioned are there for a reason and with good logical explanations. Women here, for example, work and even own things in their names. That does not mean I don't respect your views, I actually respect all people as long as they don't wish me, my family or my religion direct harm. I actually joined RF mainly to make friends of different beliefs and ethnicity, not to question people.
Hot guys with muscles, lol
You speakwiththe pious
Do you believethat womenare equal tomen
Do notspeakofyour perceptionsof
Spoke of the Quran and hadiths
Do women in Muslim societies to travel alone
Does Islam admits in music and the arts
Does Islamrespectswomen
This distinction is not on Earth but in heaven too
For the man with the nymphs albakrat
But the women believers do not have any of the men talk
Men enjoy in paradise and women serving men after each session having intercourse with one of the nymphs
Godbless youmy friend
This is Islam and this is the woman in Islam
Explain tous thetrue Islam
Islam does not explain that you want to offer to the people
Thisknowledge age
The main reason I chose Islam over modern Christianity is the identity of God. In Islam God is a One that's not comparable to any, that was not born or had offspring. A God that is a creator and not created by any means of definitions. A God with absolute well and power. There are some other minor reasons like having Islam as a way of life as well as a religion, things like cleanliness, respect for parents specially the mother, smiling at people, and other ways of life.
That of course does not mean I have a thing against Christianity. I consider Christian and Jews my religious ancestors. Generally speaking, I care for all people no matter what their belief orientations are. I only don't want them to wish me harm as I don't wish them harm.
mahasn ebn sawresho
Well-Known Member
You speakwiththe pious
Do you believethat womenare equal tomen
Do notspeakofyour perceptionsof
Spoke of the Quran and hadiths
Do women in Muslim societies to travel alone
Does Islam admits in music and the arts
Does Islamrespectswomen
This distinction is not on Earth but in heaven too
For the man with the nymphs albakrat
But the women believers do not have any of the men talk
Men enjoy in paradise and women serving men after each session having intercourse with one of the nymphs
Godbless youmy friend
This is Islam and this is the woman in Islam
Explain tous thetrue Islam
Islam does not explain that you want to offer to the people
Thisknowledge age
Do you believethat womenare equal tomen
Do notspeakofyour perceptionsof
Spoke of the Quran and hadiths
Do women in Muslim societies to travel alone
Does Islam admits in music and the arts
Does Islamrespectswomen
This distinction is not on Earth but in heaven too
For the man with the nymphs albakrat
But the women believers do not have any of the men talk
Men enjoy in paradise and women serving men after each session having intercourse with one of the nymphs
Godbless youmy friend
This is Islam and this is the woman in Islam
Explain tous thetrue Islam
Islam does not explain that you want to offer to the people
Thisknowledge age
Christian20
Member
Well those are your views and I accept your feelings and will not discuss it more. But honestly, I don't agree with them, and see the parts you mentioned are there for a reason and with good logical explanations. Women here, for example, work and even own things in their names. That does not mean I don't respect your views, I actually respect all people as long as they don't wish me, my family or my religion direct harm. I actually joined RF mainly to make friends of different beliefs and ethnicity, not to question people.
Hot guys with muscles, lol
The main reason I chose Islam over modern Christianity is the identity of God. In Islam God is a One that's not comparable to any, that was not born or had offspring. A God that is a creator and not created by any means of definitions. A God with absolute well and power. There are some other minor reasons like having Islam as a way of life as well as a religion, things like cleanliness, respect for parents specially the mother, smiling at people, and other ways of life.
I'll
in what better way to let them know how i am spiritually and loving by coming to earth myself and letting them know who God, I am.
So god send a part of his soul and chose the virgin Mary to bring him to earth. That's why he as the only one was born this way in a special way, which makes him more special than anyone ever came before him and after him.
So he came to earth to let us know and he saw how much people where sinning, and he was dissapointed, so he decided to die for our sins. So that we can finally see how much god loves us. He would he die for us? For our sins? God the almighty came to earth for us? Does he love us that much? And the answer is yes he does.
My brother once told me this amazing story.
Imagine that there was an island. And on that island there was 1 leader and he had a son.
There was a warehouse full of food and important stuff on that island and people could ONLY come in there if there was an emergency. And the leader said who ever STEALS from the warehouse will be punished with 20 lashes on his back.
So one day they found out somebody stole from the warehouse.
And it turned out to be the leader his own son.
The leader had to go through with his words and had to sentence his son for the punishment.
So when they tide up his son on a pole, before the man could hit him he, the leader jumped infront of his son and hugged him from the back and took his punishment of 20 lashes, because he loved him that much, that he would actually die for him.
And that is what Jesus/God did for us, his children, he died for our sins.
That of course does not mean I have a thing against Christianity. I consider Christian and Jews my religious ancestors. Generally speaking, I care for all people no matter what their belief orientations are. I only don't want them to wish me harm as I don't wish them harm.
I'll explain why God came to earth.
God created this earth and he wanted the people to know how much he loves us and know of his name.
And in what better way to let them know how i am spiritually and loving by coming to earth myself and letting them know who God, I am.
So god send a part of his soul and chose the virgin Mary to bring him to earth. That's why he as the only one was born this way in a special way, which makes him more special than anyone ever came before him and after him.
So he came to earth to let us know and he saw how much people where sinning, and he was dissapointed, so he decided to die for our sins. So that we can finally see how much god loves us. He would he die for us? For our sins? God the almighty came to earth for us? Does he love us that much? And the answer is yes he does.
My brother once told me this amazing story.
Imagine that there was an island. And on that island there was 1 leader and he had a son.
There was a warehouse full of food and important stuff on that island and people could ONLY come in there if there was an emergency. And the leader said who ever STEALS from the warehouse will be punished with 20 lashes on his back.
So one day they found out somebody stole from the warehouse.
And it turned out to be the leader his own son.
The leader had to go through with his words and had to sentence his son for the punishment.
So when they tide up his son on a pole, before the man could hit him he, the leader jumped infront of his son and hugged him from the back and took his punishment of 20 lashes, because he loved him that much, that he would actually die for him.
And that is what Jesus/God did for us, his children, he died for our sins.
And Yes true. I still respect and love all people. Maybe i disagree with the religion but that does not mean i would ever wish harm uppon anyone, Jesus forbid us to hate.
Last edited:
- Status