Are Muslim-related troubles caused mainly by a lack of education?

[Paranoid Android]

Well, I am disabled, not only because I am legally blind but with intractable pain from advanced RA. So thanks for nothing really. I continue to contribute, btw. And care for an aged mother with Alzheimers. As well as write papers in my field. Not all disabled people are disabled.

Thank you, brother. Often, there is no difference between the Nazi's and if someone is Conservative. They share the view that we should not be allowed to live because we cost money. My brother, hopefully we can change things with the Long Term Plan.

 

[leibowde84]

That one raised my eyebrows too Leibowde. I mean, what the you know what? Shall we start up the internment camps again and demand all peoples not like us jump inside?? I swear this country is a cesspool. Hell, the whole world is nowadays.

What are you guys talking about? I was pointing out the absurdity of the claim that the west wants to "enslave" the arab world.

 

[leibowde84]

I was adopting a Square perspective. All that matters to the Square is money. Also, we know they are violent, because Square television basically airs violence from the six and up. Coming from that perspective that is utterly amoral, why not ? You'd be sitting on a large supply of oil and you'd make money off your arab slaves.es, it is utterly immoral, but you do lots of things that are immoral. You abort Down Syndrome kids because you don't want "retards" ( My apologies to my developmentally disabled friends, the Squares know you by that) ? It's immoral to keep us from working 25 years after the A.D.A was passed. It's immoral to lock mentally ill people in prisons. You have a lot of immorality which proves to me you need to be watched.
Again, coming from your perspective, why not do it ? It will make you a lot of immoral money.

I'm confused.

1. Are you suggesting that I am a "square"? If so, why? And, why the word "square"? I thought's that's what old people called "nerds".

2. It seems like you are grouping a lot of people under the term "square". Why do you feel comfortable making such vast, unsubstantiated, and unrealistic assumptions about people that you don't even know? Is there evidence that I am not aware of (beyond your subjective experience, of course) that you have to back this up?

 

[sun rise]

Perhaps this point is related to the OP. Muslims in America might have access to better educational tools than their counterparts in the Middle East.

Many in the Middle East have access to those tools. The problem is not education - many terrorists are well educated. To me the roots of the problem there and elsewhere go much deeper.

 

[Tumah]

Many in the Middle East have access to those tools. The problem is not education - many terrorists are well educated. To me the roots of the problem there and elsewhere go much deeper.

I hear you. maybe they're indoctrination happens before their education?

 

[psychoslice]

Psychoslice, if I may, it could be a good idea to spend some time reading about historical conflicts and the people involved in them.

I just finished a book about WW1 and I am going through another. I suspect a similar exercise could give you a sense of how formidable a task it is to live apart from the fruits of the past.

Both individual people and, most of all, living communities need a sense of identity and purpose. Doing things in ways that are not well-known and well-understood by most people in one's community is simply not at all easy.

Hi, thanks for the advice, but I'm not really into history at all, I'm more or less saying that things that worked back then are not needed here and now, as we go through the years we learn of that which never worked or was a burden to the people of that time, I also take history with a pinch of salt.

 

[Thanda]

No. Why would you think that? I was just pointing out the absurdity of the "enslavement" part.

Just pulling your leg!

 

[JoStories]

What are you guys talking about? I was pointing out the absurdity of the claim that the west wants to "enslave" the arab world.

So was I Leibowde. I would not want to enslave (Hence the remark about internment camps) anyone. Sorry if I was not clear my dear friend.

 

[JoStories]

Thank you, brother. Often, there is no difference between the Nazi's and if someone is Conservative. They share the view that we should not be allowed to live because we cost money. My brother, hopefully we can change things with the Long Term Plan.

Thanks but its sister paranoid. sister.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Well, I guess it is just that these are not the times for Muslims and Arabs to stand out. Some time in the past, the exact counter argument could have been claimed with Arabs and Muslims on the heavy side of the scale and the rest of the world on the other.

Nations had fallen and risen with time.

 

[sun rise]

I hear you. maybe they're indoctrination happens before their education?

Indoctrination is part of the situation. But also given the corrupt nature of the countries in the region, the artificial divisions imposed by the British and the French when they took over, the lack of jobs, difficulty adapting to a rapidly changing world and a romanticizing of an idealized past, we have what see today.

Well, I guess it is just that these are not the times for Muslims and Arabs to stand out. Some time in the past, the exact counter argument could have been claimed with Arabs and Muslims on the heavy side of the scale and the rest of the world on the other.

Nations had fallen and risen with time.

You're 100% right. People need to know history. If they do, they'll realize that a culture can be the most progressive one in the world and then fall. It happened to Rome, China and the Islamic world.

I've been learning about the history of Islamic Spain and find it fascinating. At one point it was a leading light for sophistication, science, art and relative tolerance in the world. It was a gateway for learning to spread into Europe with scholars from England and elsewhere coming to study and to translate Aristotle etc into Latin. Then over time it crumbled.

One thing I did not know is that the Muslim rulers of al Andalus invited Muslims in from North Africa to help defend them. The North African Muslims were very strict and became aghast at what they found and amongst other things destroyed statues which showed the human face. Today's problem with Daesh and al Queda is to me an echo of what happened centuries ago in Spain.

One documentary which explores the history of al Andalus is

 

[Smart_Guy]

Enslave them?

He's probably joking
We do need sense of humor sometimes in such threads to ease any possible tension.

 

[Nakosis]

Truth, I don't know... Thoughts?

A number of the terrorists have been educated.

"We examined the educational backgrounds of 75 terrorists behind some of the most significant recent terrorist attacks against Westerners. We found that a majority of them are college-educated, often in technical subjects like engineering. In the four attacks for which the most complete information about the perpetrators' educational levels is available - the World Trade Center bombing in 1993, the attacks on the American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, the 9/11 attacks, and the Bali bombings in 2002 - 53 percent of the terrorists had either attended college or had received a college degree. As a point of reference, only 52 percent of Americans have been to college. The terrorists in our study thus appear, on average, to be as well educated as many Americans."
The Madrassa Myth - New York Times

I wonder if it is more a matter of power and control. The US throwing it's weight around. Terrorism is a tool of war. It's used by the underdog, fighting against a more powerful foe. When you know you can't win in a straight up confrontation.

It is self destructive, so used as a last resort when other options of winning are not available. If maybe beneficial for the leadership to limit access to education for the masses. So you don't have folks questioning the leadership. We do the in the US by the high cost of education. The rich get richer partly though education.

If we had a small group of people looking to overthrow the government, they'd probably incorporate terrorism.

The uneducated are easily led. That probably helps keeping those folks in power, in power.

 

[Nakosis]

Many in the Middle East have access to those tools. The problem is not education - many terrorists are well educated. To me the roots of the problem there and elsewhere go much deeper.

Yes, terrorism in not a tool of the ignorant. It's a tool of the desperate.

 

[sun rise]

He's probably joking
We do need sense of humor sometimes in such threads to ease any possible tension.

I agree.

 

[columbus]

Indoctrination is part of the situation. But also given the corrupt nature of the countries in the region, the artificial divisions imposed by the British and the French when they took over, the lack of jobs, difficulty adapting to a rapidly changing world and a romanticizing of an idealized past, we have what see today.

You're 100% right. People need to know history. If they do, they'll realize that a culture can be the most progressive one in the world and then fall. It happened to Rome, China and the Islamic world.

This is the thing. It is a far too complex situation to reduce to one problem.

Also there is this. We here in the USA hear a lot about it. We have interests there, like oil and Israel.

Terrible things happen all over the place, they just don't get the attention. From Africa to Mexico, USA policies cause huge disasters. But we don't want to change those policies and don't care about the people so that news is on page 3 it gets mentioned at all.
Tom

 

[Mindmaster]

Yes, terrorism in not a tool of the ignorant. It's a tool of the desperate.

I am not so sure of this, case in point, ISIS is definitely going way past anyones idea of acceptable wartime behavior. There is no way to simply assume it is purely reactionary -- malice and cruelty are apparent on a massive scale.

And for all of the bickering about what the west has done to them, the middle east is far more nasty to their own people than anything we can dream up. For example, while the west remains consumer driven an most of the focus is on using things up and getting new the expendable commodity in the middle east the disposable item seems to be people. This to me is the sort of situation that the people of the west haven't put up with since they had kings and queens -- this is stone age stuff at this point. The middle east continues in barbaric fashion and stills want to be taken seriously? Well, you can't have both.. You have to behave in a civilized fashion or no one will mistake you for an equal.

 

[Nakosis]

I am not so sure of this, case in point, ISIS is definitely going way past anyones idea of acceptable wartime behavior. There is no way to simply assume it is purely reactionary -- malice and cruelty are apparent on a massive scale.

And for all of the bickering about what the west has done to them, the middle east is far more nasty to their own people than anything we can dream up. For example, while the west remains consumer driven an most of the focus is on using things up and getting new the expendable commodity in the middle east the disposable item seems to be people. This to me is the sort of situation that the people of the west haven't put up with since they had kings and queens -- this is stone age stuff at this point. The middle east continues in barbaric fashion and stills want to be taken seriously? Well, you can't have both.. You have to behave in a civilized fashion or no one will mistake you for an equal.

It seems to be about power.

"But when you read the details of the UN report, you realize the common thread in ISIS’ killings of Muslims has nothing to do with Islam. It has to do with absolute power. It doesn’t matter if you are a Sunni cleric or a Christian woman, your choice is to submit to ISIS or die."
ISIS’s Gruesome Muslim Death Toll - The Daily Beast

It's an internal power struggle as well. Using terror to cause the masses to submit to ISIS rule. Maybe not so much desperate but they've learned to use terrorism to affect their goals.

 

[Mindmaster]

It seems to be about power.

"But when you read the details of the UN report, you realize the common thread in ISIS’ killings of Muslims has nothing to do with Islam. It has to do with absolute power. It doesn’t matter if you are a Sunni cleric or a Christian woman, your choice is to submit to ISIS or die."
ISIS’s Gruesome Muslim Death Toll - The Daily Beast

It's an internal power struggle as well. Using terror to cause the masses to submit to ISIS rule. Maybe not so much desperate but they've learned to use terrorism to affect their goals.

Yes, but using such methods we must ask: What will you win?

Even if they manage to do so the only influence they will gain is with the folks they can directly terrorize. The rest of the world will just see their tyranny for what it is...

The people they are attempting to subjugate must have little use for them as well or they wouldn't need to do what they do.

 

[Nakosis]

Yes, but using such methods we must ask: What will you win?

Even if they manage to do so the only influence they will gain is with the folks they can directly terrorize. The rest of the world will just see their tyranny for what it is...

The people they are attempting to subjugate must have little use for them as well or they wouldn't need to do what they do.

Unless someone comes along to stop them, what won't they gain? Should the US get more involved? We tried with the old regime and just created a power vacuum. Saddam used terrorism to keep his people under control.