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Are Muslims disobeying the Qur'an by participating in this forum?

muhammad_isa

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
stevecanuck said:
The Islamic Empire is a direct result of Allah's command to, "Fight those who believe not in Allah".
Click to expand...
If that's what you believe..
I could provide verses that instruct Muslims not to fight those who don't fight them, but what's the point.
..as you said in the OP .. Muslims shouldn't engage with people who deny and mock etc.
 
stevecanuck

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
muhammad_isa said:
If that's what you believe..
You see things in terms of "sex", whereas Allah prohibits relations with women without contractual responsibility.

You "cherry-pick" exceptions, due to the differences in society 1500 years ago, and claim it all to be immoral.

When I suggest that usury is immoral, you say that it is unavoidable.
I say that it needs to be approached by practical means.
It is the same with the issue of slavery. It isn't practical to change the status-quo overnight. Slavery is not endorsed as being a good thing.

Unfortunately, people are capable of all sorts of behaviour, including military conquest and subjugation of nations.
It still happens today in the 21st. century.
It is easy to speak from a "platform" where you feel relatively secure.
All I see from you is negativity. You ignore verses that encourage peace and fairness. You seem to be "stuck in a rut", reading one or two verses over and over again, and claim you are outraged etc.
We all see what we want to see.
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Allah and Mohamed seemed to think it was practical. When Mohamed (through the Qur'an) first addressed the Jews starting in 2:40, the second thing he said to them (2:41) was that they should believe in the Qur'an - "And believe in that I have sent down [the Qur'an]".
 
KWED

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
stevecanuck said:
That lie has been exposed. Muslim fighters can have sex with female captives. Period. Where's your "contractual responsibility" in that?
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To be fair, he is right.
By gaining ownership of a female captive as "spoils of war", there is an implicit contract. The Muslim fighter is the legal owner of the woman, and she is his property. Therefore "contractual responsibility" has been established. Therefore sexual access is necessarily granted. Consent is meaningless in that context.
 
stevecanuck

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
KWED said:
To be fair, he is right.
By gaining ownership of a female captive as "spoils of war", there is an implicit contract. The Muslim fighter is the legal owner of the woman, and she is his property. Therefore "contractual responsibility" has been established. Therefore sexual access is necessarily granted. Consent is meaningless in that context.
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I see your point, but I have a quibble. The contract of which you speak is between a mujaheed and his god rather than between the fighter and the slave. I don't call that a contract. It's just a convenience of his belief....:D
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
stevecanuck said:
I see your point, but I have a quibble. The contract of which you speak is between a mujaheed and his god rather than between the fighter and the slave. I don't call that a contract. It's just a convenience of his belief....:D
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By Mujahid do you mean a parent bringing up a child, or a worker, fighter? Please explain.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
stevecanuck said:
Why would it matter? Any Muslim who owns a woman is allowed to have sex with her regardless of how she was acquired.
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Thats irrelevant to your "Mujahid" post.

You are wrong. You threw a famous word. You should know what it means. No point throwing something else to ignore it.

Do you understand?
 
KWED

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
firedragon said:
Thats irrelevant to your "Mujahid" post.
You are wrong. You threw a famous word. You should know what it means. No point throwing something else to ignore it.
Do you understand?
Click to expand...
Your vain attempts at deflection never fail to amuse.
"Mujahid" broadly has only one meaning in the context of Islamic ideology, especially within the sub context of military conflict and the "spoils of war".
MUJAHID | Meaning & Definition for UK English | Lexico.com
mujahideen | Definition, Meaning, History, & Facts
Mujahideen - Wikipedia

It would be like talking about the invasion of Ukraine and saying "we mustn't give in to dictators" and you piping up with "Oh, but are you referring people who tell someone what they want writing down, or the 7os punk band, or the 19th century naval ships?"

But of course, you are perfectly aware of that, aren't you. ;)
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
stevecanuck said:
You have 1,001 ways of saying, 'Is not'. This has been one of them.
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Thanks. Yet, you still through out a word for shock effect. But you dont know the meaning of it. Try not to throw words out like that as an insult or shock effect. Not a good argument. Better to read up on it.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
stevecanuck said:
Any Muslim who owns a woman is allowed to have sex with her regardless of how she was acquired.
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You mean rape? If its not consensual, its rape right? So is that what you mean?

Can you please quote where in the Qur'an "rape" or "Forced sex" is vividly allowed?

Thanks.
 
S

stanberger

Active Member
stevecanuck said:
Verse 4:140 of the Qur'an states:

Yusuf Ali: Already has He sent you Word in the Book, that when ye hear the signs of Allah held in defiance and ridicule, ye are not to sit with them unless they turn to a different theme: if ye did, ye would be like them. For Allah will collect the hypocrites and those who defy faith - all in Hell.

It seems quite clear to me that when a Muslim engages in debate with the likes of me, that he/she is openly defying Allah's command to not do so.

A cynic might even suggest that Allah is afraid of his followers being defeated in a debate and swayed away from the 'truth'.

Comments?
Click to expand...
quran ' let there be no compulsion in religion ' muslims debate nonmuslims all over the world
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
stevecanuck said:
And Islam doesn't like you. We are both considered "the lowest of God's beasts (5:88)".
Click to expand...

The Qur'an separates the arrogant deniers who mock and insult religions from others. It also separates those who cover things up, hypocrites, those who spread corruption in the land, liars, bringers of false information, etc.

@Left Coast

5:69 As long as you believe in God, do good things, and believe in the last day, according to this verse everything is fine for you. ;)

God does not have to "like" some one. This "liking" business is a nice word to gather cavalry. Its like "Islam doesnt like you and me both, so lets get together spread falsehood together".
 
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