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Are Muslims disobeying the Qur'an by participating in this forum?

KWED

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
stanberger said:
in bible the woman who is raped must marry her rapist
Click to expand...
Luckily, you'll be hard pressed to find a Christian who thinks the Mosaic law of the Bible should be the law of the land.
Unfortunately, the same thing can't be said of Muslims and the Quran.
 
stevecanuck

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
firedragon said:
It does not say "when". You made that up. It does not say "How you will". You made that up.

The verse prior says women are "harthun lakum" and explains when they have periods not to have sex. Next verse says "approach them as you feel in goodness". Kadhdhimu. It tells you to be conscious of God. God consciousness or taqwa
means you have righteousness. The inner speech that tells you not to do wrong things.

It does not tell you to "rape your wife".

You made that up.
Click to expand...

Here you go. Take your pick. Nowhere is consent even hinted at. So, who should I believe - all these widely published, fluently bi-lingual scholars, or some rando on the innertubes? Please show the weakness of your argument by pretending that I'm guilty of appealing to authority. At some point all teaching, regardless of the subject, could be boiled down to appealing to authority. Isn't that what every student in every classroom in the world does when listening to the teacher?


Sahih International: Your wives are a place of sowing of seed for you, so come to your place of cultivation however you wish and put forth [righteousness] for yourselves. And fear Allah and know that you will meet Him. And give good tidings to the believers.

Pickthall: Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will, and send (good deeds) before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that ye will (one day) meet Him. Give glad tidings to believers, (O Muhammad).

Yusuf Ali: Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will; but do some good act for your souls beforehand; and fear Allah. And know that ye are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give (these) good tidings to those who believe.

Shakir: Your wives are a tilth for you, so go into your tilth when you like, and do good beforehand for yourselves, and be careful (of your duty) to Allah, and know that you will meet Him, and give good news to the believers.

Muhammad Sarwar: Your wives are as fields for you. You may enter your fields from any place you want. Reserve something good for your souls (for the life hereafter). Have fear of God and know that you are going to meet Him. (Muhammad) give the glad news to the believers.

Mohsin Khan: Your wives are a tilth for you, so go to your tilth (have sexual relations with your wives in any manner as long as it is in the vagina and not in the anus), when or how you will, and send (good deeds, or ask Allah to bestow upon you pious offspring) before you for your ownselves. And fear Allah, and know that you are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give good tidings to the believers (O Muhammad SAW).

Arberry: Your women are a tillage for you; so come unto your tillage as you wish, and forward for your souls; and fear God, and know that you shall meet Him. Give thou good tidings to the believers.
 
stevecanuck

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
firedragon said:
I will ignore your baseless insults because there are cheap people like you in this world. ;)

Mate. Verse 9:29 speaks of those who broke a treaty. They are liars. They dont believe in God because they are oath breakers. People who believe in God and the last day know they should not lie and cheat. That is not speaking of "All the atheists". You are making that up.

I have already explained that in the post you responded with a scholarly "that's a lie".
Click to expand...

As I've explained many times, every verse is created in response to a given event or desire of Mohamed, but many are stated in a generalized manner. That is exactly what we get when we read, "Fight those who believe not in Allah". That means exactly what it says.
 
stevecanuck

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
KWED said:
So does that mean that Muslims don't have to follow the Quran? If they don't want to pray five times a day, that's fine. There is no compulsion in religion, right?
Click to expand...

When you come down to it, The Qur'an is 6,236 verses of compulsion. Do EXACTLY as I say, or burn in hell. I call that nothing but compulsion.
 
KWED

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
stevecanuck said:
Here you go. Take your pick. Nowhere is consent even hinted at. So, who should I believe - all these widely published, fluently bi-lingual scholars, or some rando on the innertubes? Please show the weakness of your argument by pretending that I'm guilty of appealing to authority. At some point all teaching, regardless of the subject, could be boiled down to appealing to authority. Isn't that what every student in every classroom in the world does when listening to the teacher?


Sahih International: Your wives are a place of sowing of seed for you, so come to your place of cultivation however you wish and put forth [righteousness] for yourselves. And fear Allah and know that you will meet Him. And give good tidings to the believers.

Pickthall: Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will, and send (good deeds) before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that ye will (one day) meet Him. Give glad tidings to believers, (O Muhammad).

Yusuf Ali: Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will; but do some good act for your souls beforehand; and fear Allah. And know that ye are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give (these) good tidings to those who believe.

Shakir: Your wives are a tilth for you, so go into your tilth when you like, and do good beforehand for yourselves, and be careful (of your duty) to Allah, and know that you will meet Him, and give good news to the believers.

Muhammad Sarwar: Your wives are as fields for you. You may enter your fields from any place you want. Reserve something good for your souls (for the life hereafter). Have fear of God and know that you are going to meet Him. (Muhammad) give the glad news to the believers.

Mohsin Khan: Your wives are a tilth for you, so go to your tilth (have sexual relations with your wives in any manner as long as it is in the vagina and not in the anus), when or how you will, and send (good deeds, or ask Allah to bestow upon you pious offspring) before you for your ownselves. And fear Allah, and know that you are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give good tidings to the believers (O Muhammad SAW).

Arberry: Your women are a tillage for you; so come unto your tillage as you wish, and forward for your souls; and fear God, and know that you shall meet Him. Give thou good tidings to the believers.
Click to expand...
Love the very specific clarification in the Hilali-Khan version. I guess being the official Quran of the Saudi Dawahganda Ministry, it needs to make its prejudices explicit.
 
KWED

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
stevecanuck said:
When you come down to it, The Qur'an is 6,236 verses of compulsion. Do EXACTLY as I say, or burn in hell. I call that nothing but compulsion.
Click to expand...
Well apparently, if a gang of muggers says "give us your money or we will stab you", you don't have to. There is no compulsion. And if you refuse to hand over your wallet and you are stabbed, it's your own fault. The muggers warned you so their action is reasonable.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
stevecanuck said:
Here you go. Take your pick. Nowhere is consent even hinted at. So, who should I believe - all these widely published, fluently bi-lingual scholars, or some rando on the innertubes? Please show the weakness of your argument by pretending that I'm guilty of appealing to authority. At some point all teaching, regardless of the subject, could be boiled down to appealing to authority. Isn't that what every student in every classroom in the world does when listening to the teacher?


Sahih International: Your wives are a place of sowing of seed for you, so come to your place of cultivation however you wish and put forth [righteousness] for yourselves. And fear Allah and know that you will meet Him. And give good tidings to the believers.

Pickthall: Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will, and send (good deeds) before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that ye will (one day) meet Him. Give glad tidings to believers, (O Muhammad).

Yusuf Ali: Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will; but do some good act for your souls beforehand; and fear Allah. And know that ye are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give (these) good tidings to those who believe.

Shakir: Your wives are a tilth for you, so go into your tilth when you like, and do good beforehand for yourselves, and be careful (of your duty) to Allah, and know that you will meet Him, and give good news to the believers.

Muhammad Sarwar: Your wives are as fields for you. You may enter your fields from any place you want. Reserve something good for your souls (for the life hereafter). Have fear of God and know that you are going to meet Him. (Muhammad) give the glad news to the believers.

Mohsin Khan: Your wives are a tilth for you, so go to your tilth (have sexual relations with your wives in any manner as long as it is in the vagina and not in the anus), when or how you will, and send (good deeds, or ask Allah to bestow upon you pious offspring) before you for your ownselves. And fear Allah, and know that you are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give good tidings to the believers (O Muhammad SAW).

Arberry: Your women are a tillage for you; so come unto your tillage as you wish, and forward for your souls; and fear God, and know that you shall meet Him. Give thou good tidings to the believers.
Click to expand...

No where does it say "rape". And it says clearly Taqwa, fear God, etc etc. So your rape understanding is your personal imposition.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
stevecanuck said:
That is exactly what we get when we read, "Fight those who believe not in Allah". That means exactly what it says.
Click to expand...

But read the Quran. At least, minimum standard should be "read the chapter".

What you are doing is the height of "cherry picking". The absolute definition of "Quote mining".
 
stevecanuck

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
firedragon said:
No where does it say "rape". And it says clearly Taqwa, fear God, etc etc. So your rape understanding is your personal imposition.
Click to expand...

This verse is clearly telling men that when to have sex is entirely at their discretion. Should his wife/slave/captive be agreeable, then of course it’s not rape, but if she isn’t, then it is. And I think we all know it happens.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
stevecanuck said:
This verse is clearly telling men that when to have sex is entirely at their discretion.
Click to expand...

No it doesnt. Thats your own feelings you are imposing upon the book.

It simply says not to approach your wives sexually while they have their monthly periods and when its over approach them as you please. Karb in arabic does not every mean "force". You made that up.
 
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