Are people born inherently atheist?

[outhouse]

On and on about fallacies, yet not even a single attempt to coherently or cogently explain why and how something is a fallacy.

One more time.

Saying something doesn't make it so.

I understand how and why many use accusations of argumentative fallacy when they cannot produce a valid counter-argument though.

There is no counter to your fallacy.

rocks are a fallacy, period.

You have a personal rejection of the definition, plain and simple. By giving your value statement to the definition, is opinion. NOT definition.

 

[Thana]

Do you understand what it is to be an implicit atheist?

No conscious rejection of theism is required.


My daughter is 7 and does not believe in mythology surrounding deities, she does not believe in any deity existing. She has never been a theist.

At what age was she ever a theist?

She has been an atheist since birth.


That is how it is used with meaning, if you and others want to pervert it with red herrings and straw men as you are, feel free.

I know it makes you feel big and bad to keep saying mythology when refering to Gods/religion, But it's just being obnoxious.

She's a child.
When she's capable of thinking for herself, Then you can call her an Athiest if it means so much to you.

However,
Incapability to determine your belief's does not make you Athiest.
It makes you incapable of determining your beliefs.
It also makes you sound like your projecting your beliefs onto the world.

It's not a personal dislike of the term implicit athiest,
It's just overbearing to try and put a belief onto something that can't decide for itself.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

There is no counter to your fallacy.

rocks are a fallacy, period.

And yet you cannot explain how or why.

Go back to sleep now.

 

[LuisDantas]

I've never met anyone who introduced their infant as Athiest.
And to be honest, I never really want to.

And yet it would be just as accurate as saying that they are unemployed, or illiterate.

What is the problem here?

It's a useless distinction, And since an infant can't speak, let alone think anything coherent, Then I'd say they can't believe there is no God.

They can't be positive atheists, or strong atheists, or whatever until a certain age.

They definitely are atheists by default up until that point, though.

If they could believe in God, And they choose not to, Then they're Athiest.

That too.

If they don't have the ability to do so, Then they're not Athiest.

Why not? Should we artificially pretent that maybe they can believe in God yet have decided not to tell?

Sorry, I see no sense in that at all.

Do you find it usefull to pick up a rock and let everyone know this rock is Athiest?

Useful, not really. Accurate, sure.

Is it meaningful or helpful in anyway? Does it change your opinion of said rock?
No.

No. But it seems to be changing my opinion about theists.

 

[LuisDantas]

Incapability to determine your belief's does not make you Athiest.

It most definitely does, much as incapability to read or write makes one illiterate.

It makes you incapable of determining your beliefs.

Or perhaps of holding them (far as belief in God goes) in the first place. In either case, that certainly ensure atheism.

It also makes you sound like your projecting your beliefs onto the world.

How so?

It's not a personal dislike of the term implicit athiest,
It's just overbearing to try and put a belief onto something that can't decide for itself.

Then you understand why we will not give?

 

[Valjean]

It's a useless distinction, And since an infant can't speak, let alone think anything coherent, Then I'd say they can't believe there is no God.
If they could believe in God, And they choose not to, Then they're Athiest.
If they don't have the ability to do so, Then they're not Athiest.

You're not paying attention, Thana. Atheism is not a choice. It's not a rejection of God. It's not a belief that there is no God.

 

[Thana]

You're not paying attention, Thana. Atheism is not a choice. It's not a rejection of God. It's not a belief that there is no God.

No I get the point you're all trying to make.
A lack of belief,
Without belief.

But it's a useless, meaningless distinction to put onto a child/infant.
Because they will eventually be able to stop lacking belief,
It's a temporary term, Completely unhelpful.
So what's the point?

 

[outhouse]

No I get the point you're all trying to make.
A lack of belief,
Without belief.

But it's a useless, meaningless distinction to put onto a child/infant.
Because they will eventually be able to stop lacking belief,
It's a temporary term, Completely unhelpful.
So what's the point?

It is simply a description of some ones lack of theism.

You do not get to choose when or how it is used, YOU do not define lack of theism.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

You're not paying attention, Thana. Atheism is not a choice. It's not a rejection of God. It's not a belief that there is no God.

Let's put it this way: what is the meaningful distinction between an infant's absence of belief in god, and a rock's absence of belief in god?

 

[Willamena]

yes and no

One is defined by what he lacks FIRST, and it doesn't matter how one gets to a lack of theism, one is not a theist, and if your not a theist your a atheist.

Once we determine what one does not possess, [theism] then we can run them down the funnel and determine what kind of an atheist we are dealing with. Implicit or explicit.

There is implicit and explicit atheism. Either way BOTH are not theist.

You can't "lack" something that doesn't exist.

...Except in your system, where it's enitrely possible.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

You can't "lack" something that doesn't exist.

...Except in your system, where it's enitrely possible.

My fish lacks belief in god. I bought him some books by Dawkins and Hitchens since he's an atheist, but he just looked at them and swam away. He won't even tell me why he's not interested in reading them. Some people have no manners whatsoever.

 

[outhouse]

You can't "lack" something that doesn't exist.

...Except in your system, where it's enitrely possible.

This case your wrong.

theism does exist

And some people are not theist.


The only people who have issue, are the ones complicating the definition.

 

[outhouse]

My fish lacks belief in god. I bought him some books by Dawkins and Hitchens since he's an atheist, but he just looked at them and swam away. He won't even tell me why he's not interested in reading them. Some people have no manners whatsoever.

yes fallacies are comical.

 

[Magic Man]

No I get the point you're all trying to make.
A lack of belief,
Without belief.

But it's a useless, meaningless distinction to put onto a child/infant.
Because they will eventually be able to stop lacking belief,
It's a temporary term, Completely unhelpful.
So what's the point?

The point is that they start off that way and then learn religious beliefs, rather than starting off with an inherent belief in God, as some believers claim.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

yes fallacies are comical.

So is your lack of ability to explain why anything I've said is a fallacy.

 

[Willamena]

Willamena, you seem to have this idee fixe concerning denial of God that is completely impervious to repeated correction and clarification. How can a person who's never heard of any God concept deny that which he's never heard of, for example?

They can't. But then, they are also not automatically atheists.

Atheism is a lack of theism, period. You may deny God, you may never have heard of God, you may be indifferent to the concept, but the only sine qua non is non-belief.

Atheism is the denial of god or of belief in god. "I don't believe in god."

 

[Magic Man]

Atheism is the denial of belief in god. "I don't believe in god."

Those aren't the same thing, and you don't have to say you don't believe in gods to be an atheist.

 

[Willamena]

Those aren't the same thing, and you don't have to say you don't believe in gods to be an atheist.

Yeah, I amended it because I'm sure I could make the case either way.

 

[Magic Man]

Yeah, I amended it because I'm sure I could make the case either way.

What I mean is denial is not the same as saying "I don't believe...".

 

[Willamena]

What I mean is denial is not the same as saying "I don't believe...".

I don't believe you.