Are people really going to get help paying for their Health Insurance?

[DallasApple]

But that is not what Obama said. So, let me ask you a couple of simple questions
1. Was he lying and knew it
2. Was he in the dark and didn't know what he was talking about

Your choice but both of them make Obama look bad.

I think he was ill advised about 1 % of the population . I don't think he lied nor had know idea what he was talking about .

I think its people like you /...More interested in calling Obama any name you can think of short to the name you really want to call him dragging any chance down that the Affordable Care Act can work.

DID you lose YOUR insurance that you like and want to keep?

I didn't ..I just want a chance to get it MORE affordable.. Just for premiums we pay about 18% of our annual income. Our deductable is 5,000 EACH annually .On top of co-pays . And that's NO maternity ..no "mental" etc./

If our insurance is cancelled ? THEY (Cigna) is going to lose a LOT of free money . I'll pay the 1% penalty on my taxes .(a FRACTION of what we pay for insurance) and put the money in a "sick account" .

We have private insurance..we would be one in the small % of people that get "cancelled" I dare them to cancel us. I will have 8,400 a year to save in the bank.

We only have insurance ..for IN CASE,,, We might have to spend 1,200 on average for annuals and my husband has diabetes . So we will still be still be saving 6,500 a year being cancelled. The insurance companies will lose that profit.

**** Cigna.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

So you say. What say you about the following?

President Obama Continues Questionable
From above link

Or a collage of his lies.
Video: Obama Saying You Can Keep Your Plan -- Daily Intelligencer


So, tell me is he lying or not, now I mean word for word not what you think he meant or what he thought he meant.

He was telling the truth as it relates to the ACA Law and guidelines. Had insurers not changed their policies in a significant way (according to the ACA guidelines) then these people would still be on their grandfathered policies. That's not what these companies did. Many of these companies changed their policies....which is what they ALL do...and others dropped current policies informing their customers they could stay but under a new policy through them (on the open market)...that was going to be significantly higher. Many of these companies expressed in their letters that they simply could not compete and and afford to keep cost low.

If your policy is dirt cheap per month yet your insurance company has put out over $1.2 Million dollars in the course of 5-7 years for your cancer treatment, like the one lady in California, and you (the insurer) have a small percentage of the market in the state....how much longer do you think you can continue to keep that client and remain viable? You can't....not if your goal is to make money. Insurance companies don't see you as a "friend"...they see you as a $ dollar sign. In many cases it was their job when you got sick to "NOT" pay for your treatment or drop your coverage.....that is no different now.

Check this out.....It goes to the heart of what we've been saying for years now.

[youtube]_Bxh9W_wyc4[/youtube]
KTLA News HMO's Cancel Coverage When You Get Sick - YouTube



Not only does this express that Republican Gov. Shwarzenegger (at the time) wanted to cover ALL Californians but at the end of the clip...the guy reporting says an attorney who represents people who have been dropped said "if everybody was covered we wouldn't have these problems".....mind you this report was way back in 2006. It was true then and it's even more true today.

 

[esmith]

He was telling the truth as it relates to the ACA Law and guidelines. Had insurers not changed their policies in a significant way (according to the ACA guidelines) then these people would still be on their grandfathered policies. That's not what these companies did. Many of these companies changed their policies....which is what they ALL do...and others dropped current policies informing their customers they could stay but under a new policy through them (on the open market)...that was going to be significantly higher. Many of these companies expressed in their letters that they simply could not compete and and afford to keep cost low.

I guess your mind and others go blank or refuses to see the obvious when asked a very simple question and the answer is not what you want. So, let's get it straight. Obama said specifically "if you like your health insurance you can keep it". He did not qualify that statement with any other conditions or facts. You can argue until your face turns blue but the facts are the facts.

Let say you want to borrow some money, you come to me and I say that "I will loan you $100 at 2.5% interest for 1 month". At the end of the month you bring me $102.50 and I tell you that you owe me an additional $5.00 for administrative overhead. You then say "but you said that I could borrow $100.00 for 1 month at 2.5% interest". Yes but I didn't mention the additional charges which are mentioned in the contract which are in addition to the interest.

Did I lie to you?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I guess your mind and others go blank or refuses to see the obvious when asked a very simple question and the answer is not what you want. So, let's get it straight. Obama said specifically "if you like your health insurance you can keep it". He did not qualify that statement with any other conditions or facts. You can argue until your face turns blue but the facts are the facts.

And if you understood the ACA Law you'd realize that right there in plain English they provided a caveat to all this. When the law went into effect the people on these plans were grandfathered in. Insurance companies followed that law and since the insurance companies changed the customer's policy in a significant way or decided not to carry that policy for whatever reason any "new" plan they offered had to be ACA compliant. Insurance companies could've avoided all of this but they chose to do otherwise. Like I said...they're in it to make money..so it's to their benefit to put you on a policy that charges you more and makes them money. This is why they up their rates and change their policies yearly....This isn't news. Did you even watch the video. It confirms everything I just said.

If you have a plan that was purchased before the law went into effect and you like it, you can keep it provided the insurance companies make no significant changes to your plan. This was true then when the law went into effect and it's true today. Federal lawmakers in both houses are now trying to introduce legislation that retroactively covers 2013 and back....

Let say you want to borrow some money, you come to me and I say that "I will loan you $100 at 2.5% interest for 1 month". At the end of the month you bring me $102.50 and I tell you that you owe me an additional $5.00 for administrative overhead. You then say "but you said that I could borrow $100.00 for 1 month at 2.5% interest". Yes but I didn't mention the additional charges which are mentioned in the contract which are in addition to the interest.

Did I lie to you?

If I borrowed money from you I'd want all terms and conditions in writing. If everything was in writing, as it was in the ACA, and I came to you playing dumb on paying back the money I borrowed then you'd have a point....but you don't....:sad:


It was known from the beginning that companies could change a policy in a significant way or cancel a policy altogether so any "new" policy offered would have to be ACA compliant. If you and others trying to use that talking point didn't know or don't understand that provision in the law..then that's on you. I knew it was there as well as many others......

 

[McBell]

I guess your mind and others go blank or refuses to see the obvious when asked a very simple question and the answer is not what you want. So, let's get it straight. Obama said specifically "if you like your health insurance you can keep it". He did not qualify that statement with any other conditions or facts. You can argue until your face turns blue but the facts are the facts.

Ah, so you acknowledge that insurance companies dropped certain policies in order to make Obama a "liar" so that you can have some more "ammunition" to throw?

Seems you are merely looking for things about Obama to whine to whine about.

And no, i did not miss your blatant hypocrisy of your first sentence.

 

[esmith]

If you have a plan that was purchased before the law went into effect and you like it, you can keep it provided the insurance companies make no significant changes to your plan. This was true then when the law went into effect and it's true today. Federal lawmakers in both houses are now trying to introduce legislation that retroactively covers 2013 and back....

Take a real close look at the statement you made. Just to help you I highlighted the portion I'm referring to. Did Obama make that statement? No. He left out the part starting with "provided"

If I borrowed money from you I'd want all terms and conditions in writing. If everything was in writing, as it was in the ACA, and I came to you playing dumb on paying back the money I borrowed then you'd have a point....but you don't....:sad:

But just like the American public, you didn't read it. I just happened to say you have to accept the loan and all terms so you can find out whats in it. And since you are the type that believes my company and my CEO you accept that I will not screw over some of the people that borrow from me and you believe my company is good and any one that attempts to warn you you disbelieve . Then I send my CEO out to lie.

 

[esmith]

Ah, so you acknowledge that insurance companies dropped certain policies in order to make Obama a "liar" so that you can have some more "ammunition" to throw?

Seems you are merely looking for things about Obama to whine to whine about.

No, I do not acknowledge that insurance companies dropped certain polices to make Obama a "liar". The insurance companies are in bed with Obama in most cases. The insurance companies are going to make more money since all American citizens have to buy insurance policies or be fined. sorry taxed.

Yeah whine whine whine, but that is not what those that are opposed to Obama and certain Democrats are doing, they are attempting to educate the population to this reckless direction this country is taking. And it appears from many polls that the country is starting to see that the country is headed in the wrong direction. It is those that support the Obama group that are whining about the deserved criticism this administration is receiving.

 

[McBell]

No, I do not acknowledge that insurance companies dropped certain polices to make Obama a "liar". The insurance companies are in bed with Obama in most cases. The insurance companies are going to make more money since all American citizens have to buy insurance policies or be fined. sorry taxed.

Yeah whine whine whine, but that is not what those that are opposed to Obama and certain Democrats are doing, they are attempting to educate the population to this reckless direction this country is taking. And it appears from many polls that the country is starting to see that the country is headed in the wrong direction. It is those that support the Obama group that are whining about the deserved criticism this administration is receiving.

I guess your mind and others go blank or refuses to see the obvious when asked a very simple question and the answer is not what you want...

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Take a real close look at the statement you made. Just to help you I highlighted the portion I'm referring to. Did Obama make that statement? No. He left out the part starting with "provided"

I know exactly what I typed....and it's still true. You can keep your plan. It wasn't the Obama administration that made any sort of guarantee and it certainly wasn't a promise given the provisions in the ACA that made it perfectly clear what constituted a grandfathered plan. The problem is people like you and others that want to hold him to this without even reading or understanding the law is what's amazing here. If you have a plan that you like you can keep it. It was known since 2010 around the time when the law was implemented that insurance companies had the right to change plans or cancel them. It's always been that way (see the video in my previous post).....Since NO law can force an insurance company keep a plan for life the clause was created that plans prior to the ACA law would be grandfathered in. Insurance companies agreed and complied with the law. It is the perogotive of the insurance company to change or cancel a plan but under the ACA guidelines if they change their plan in a significant way (which includes calceling a plan)...then any new plan must meet the full guidelines of the ACA. If they make minor changes that aren't in a signfcant way then that plan remains grandfathered. What part of this aren't you and the rest of the Republican whiners getting.......:sad:

 

[Monk Of Reason]

For those that claim that Obama "lied" about being able to keep your insurance.

1) Nothing in the law prohibits any health insurance from staying on. It does how ever impose things that everyone agrees is a good idea.

2) The fact that insurance companies are "dropping" people is not because of Obamacare but usually as knee jerk reactions. Nothing in the law is shutting down health insurance compaines.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

But that is not what Obama said. So, let me ask you a couple of simple questions
1. Was he lying and knew it
2. Was he in the dark and didn't know what he was talking about

Your choice but both of them make Obama look bad.

You've presented a false dichotomy, and in any case we've been over this. My answer is that when he was asked about this waaaaaay back in 2009, he qualified his statement. As for the 5-second sound bite he was repeating, it was a bit misleading, but given that 2 million Americans became uninsured every month before the ACA, I think Obama underestimated how hysterical people would get about less than 5% of the population "losing" their current insurance and, in many cases, having it replaced by better, more affordable options.

What's remarkable to me is that conservatives have re-discovered, for the first time in years, that they care about people who lose insurance. As long as Obamacare is the perceived cause of that loss of insurance, that is. Otherwise, it's "let 'em die".

 

[MysticSang'ha]

What's remarkable to me is that conservatives have re-discovered, for the first time in years, that they care about people who lose insurance. As long as Obamacare is the perceived cause of that loss of insurance, that is. Otherwise, it's "let 'em die".

I find this interesting, too. That those who a couple years ago were suggesting that health care is strictly a "privilege" and not a "right" are suddenly quite upset about people losing their health care "privileges".

Is this a shift in public perception on what are fair entitlements and what aren't?

 

[Revoltingest]

I find this interesting, too. That those who a couple years ago were suggesting that health care is strictly a "privilege" and not a "right" are suddenly quite upset about people losing their health care "privileges".
Is this a shift in public perception on what are fair entitlements and what aren't?

Perhaps what you see is that the Republican Party sends out mixed messages. We notice that they still have some members who are "conservatives" (small gov types), who treat health care as the individual's responsibility, but they also have many who lean in a more socialistic direction (eg, the Bushies), & would expand social programs, even increasing taxes to do so. Political power does seem to be shifting in the direction of the Bush type Publican, & away from the Goldwater types.

 

[dawny0826]

Interesting that you even flat out admit you have no clue what is going on and still, here you are talking **** about that which you no nothing about...





EDIT
I have not changed the above because I feel to do so would be dishonest.

Reverend Rick
I apologize for the above blow up.

The above is me taking out my frustration and aggravation over not being able to get any reliable information concerning the ACA from either side on you and you do not deserve it.

I think every single time I read a thread about the ACA, something new pops up that wasn't explained before in a prior publication or even conversation between ACA supporters, those staunchly against and even those who are just trying to figure it out.

This is our reality and I want to face it as fairly and factually as possible...but, it's hard to come to any sort of solid conclusion when the facts appear to change on a regular basis.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I find this interesting, too. That those who a couple years ago were suggesting that health care is strictly a "privilege" and not a "right" are suddenly quite upset about people losing their health care "privileges".

Is this a shift in public perception on what are fair entitlements and what aren't?

I guess for me anyway "entitlements" are earned not owed. Social Security is a good example. You work for 40 years or better paying into the system your entire life, you are entitled to benefits.

Just being born here, (and some folks don't even meet that requirement) may receive benifits, but I don't think they are entitled.

We help folks out of compassion which is the right thing to do, but I don't feel they are always deserving especially when they make bad decisions generation after generation.

I hate the medical profession and think people are too doctor dependant but realise that medical care is a nessessary evil.

My biggest issue is the expense. We have too many expensive tests that do more to keep the doctor from lawsuits than real patient care.

I think enabling folks to live longer lives just increases the governments liability.

Lets just live our natual life and check out with some dignity.

I will not live in a nursing home crapping on myself for ten years.

I will not cling to a miserable life because I am afraid to die.

I makes me sick seeing old folks running up medical bills rebuilding their bodies with new hips, knees, eyes and such.

We just cannot afford that. Why do people feel entitled to be a burden on society?

Young folks starting families they cannot support is another issue of mine.

Yes there are folks who have disabilities, they cannot get out and work. These are the folks we should help not able bodied folks.

 

[McBell]

I think every single time I read a thread about the ACA, something new pops up that wasn't explained before in a prior publication or even conversation between ACA supporters, those staunchly against and even those who are just trying to figure it out.

This is our reality and I want to face it as fairly and factually as possible...but, it's hard to come to any sort of solid conclusion when the facts appear to change on a regular basis.

Could it be because the "facts" that are being presented are never supported by using the ACA?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Perhaps what you see is that the Republican Party sends out mixed messages. We notice that they still have some members who are "conservatives" (small gov types), who treat health care as the individual's responsibility, but they also have many who lean in a more socialistic direction (eg, the Bushies), & would expand social programs, even increasing taxes to do so. Political power does seem to be shifting in the direction of the Bush type Publican, & away from the Goldwater types.

Good point. Medicare Part D, anyone?

 

[Revoltingest]

Good point. Medicare Part D, anyone?

We're gonnna have a long & bumpy road towards single payer, eh?

 

[DallasApple]

I find this interesting, too. That those who a couple years ago were suggesting that health care is strictly a "privilege" and not a "right" are suddenly quite upset about people losing their health care "privileges".

Is this a shift in public perception on what are fair entitlements and what aren't?

Yes .The wealthy should get cheap insurance.

The poor should die.

 

[DallasApple]

I guess for me anyway "entitlements" are earned not owed.

So you think a guy "earning" $10 an hour should pay the same as someone making $50 an hour our ? And pay the same amount for the same illness?