Are Playing Cards Evil ???

[MaddLlama]

I'm just hoping for his own sake, then, that FFH doesn't have a solitaire program on his computer. :rainbow1:

That's the most evil game of all

(well, only because I never win, haha)

Maybe Mah Jong is ok?

 

[Aqualung]

There is absolutely nothing good about face cards. We can place a value on those symbols/indices, but what is their real origin ???

Does it matter what their real origin is if nobody knows and nobody uses them for bad. It's like holding against a little child the fact that they once threw up on the carpet against them for the rest of their lives. Yeah, they used to throw up on the carpet, but nobody would realise that with how well they are able to make it to the bathroom before they throw up now. Since nobody knows they used to throw up on the carpet, and they don't do it anymore, why hold it against them?

 

[Aqualung]

I don't want to say anything more until all the facts are in...

Need to gather the facts and my thoughts before speaking...

Will get back to this tomorrow/today...

Oh, okay. Well, as long as you're planning to, carry on.

 

[Panda]

I'm telling you it's always the inanimate objects that are evil [/sarcasm]

 

[Bishka]

Very clever.

He's assigniing good things to evil face cards, in order to justify his use of them., wjich he probably or undoubtedly knows is wrong..

And?


People have assigned 'good' to 'evil' things for centuries. Taken almost any holiday with a Christians aspect to it, before then it was a Pagan holiday. Does that make it evil? Take the masonic symbols, we have similar ones on the Salt Lake Temple but does that make them evil? Absolutely not.

If you are going to let cards have an evil influence over you, then sure, then can be evil and you can be lead to gamble, etc. IF you do not let them have that influence over you, then what they are is just cards. Satan won't come in if you don't let him. It is not that hard of a concept to grasp.

What makes the cards evil themselves? Nothing. It's people who assigning meaning to them and make them evil, they are not evil themselves. They cannot be, they have no will, no soul and no purpose.

 

[Buttercup]

FFH,

Why don't you ask your Bishop about the evilness of cards? A simple phone call should do.

 

[McBell]

He's assigniing good things to evil face cards, in order to justify his use of them., wjich he probably or undoubtedly knows is wrong..

Opinions differ.
Seems you made you mind up about cards before you even made this thread to "learn" about them.

There is absolutely nothing good about face cards. We can place a value on those symbols/indices, but what is their real origin ???

Please.
Now you are merely grasping at straws.
What difference does it make what their origins were?
If you are seriously going to attempt that line of reasoning, you will needs toss out Christianity and go with one of the religions that Christianity is based upon.

How did the face cards come about and what were the meanings assigned to these symbols. Are there any "hidden" images on the front or back of these cards ???

Perhaps you do not read very well.
Here is what they mean to the some people:

"You see, sir, when I look at the Ace, it reminds me that there is but one God.
And the deuce reminds me that the bible is divided into two parts: the Old and the New Testaments.
When I see the trey, I think of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
And when I see the four, I think of the four evangelists who preached the Gospel: there was Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
And when I see the five, it reminds me of the five wise virgins who trimmed their lamps; there were ten of them: five were wise and were saved, five were foolish and were shut out.
When I see the six, it reminds me that in six days God made this heaven and earth.
And when I see the seven, it reminds me that on the seventh day, God rested from his great work.
And when I see the eight, I think of the eight righteous persons that God saved when he destroyed the earth: there was Noah, his wife, their sons and their wives.
And when I see the nine, I think of the lepers our saviour cleansed, and that nine of the ten didn't even thank him.
When I see the ten, I think of the ten commandments that God handed down to Moses on a tablet of stone.
When I see the King, it reminds me that there is but one King of Heaven, God Almighty.
And when I see the Queen, I think of the blessed Virgin Mary who is the Queen of Heaven.
And the Jack or Knave is the Devil.
When I count the number of spots in a deck of cards, I find 365, the number of days in a year.
There are 52 cards, the number of weeks in a year.
There are four suits, the number of weeks in a month.
There are twelve picture cards, the number of months in a year.
There are thirteen tricks, the number of weeks in a quarter.
​

The problem here is that you lack a basic understanding of symbolism.
You want to assign your opinion more value and status than the opinions of those who disagree with you.
Yet you have not shown anything to indicate that your opinion, or the opinions of those you parrot, carry any more weight than the opinions of those who disagree with your opinion.

I call it like it is, pure evil. I can't stand to even have them around me and I have to stop myself from throwing them away if I see them at work...

I disagree.
You are merely calling it how you want to see it.
Nothing more.

If you are going to let cards have an evil influence over you, then sure, then can be evil and you can be lead to gamble, etc. IF you do not let them have that influence over you, then what they are is just cards. Satan won't come in if you don't let him. It is not that hard of a concept to grasp.

What makes the cards evil themselves? Nothing. It's people who assigning meaning to them and make them evil, they are not evil themselves. They cannot be, they have no will, no soul and no purpose.

Evil has no more influence over you than what you give it.

 

[FFH]

FFH,

Why don't you ask your Bishop about the evilness of cards? A simple phone call should do.

I already know they're no good, without having to consult anyone. I measure everything by how it/they affect/s my spirit, and face cards harm my spirit in a way I can only describe as being hurt/harmed spiritually...

Whenever something harms my spirit, it makes me feel EMPTY...

I am no longer FILLED with the Holy Ghost, but on my own...

Four LDS prophets and one apostle here have warned against the use and possession of face cards in the home...

These men obviously over ride any Bishop.

Ther first four are past Presidents of the LDS church and the last was a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the LDS church.

All these men are deceased.. their positions being filled by another upon their deaths.

Playing Cards
by W. John Walsh​

LDS church leaders have counseled Latter-day Saints to not use playing cards.


President Spencer W. Kimball taught:

"We hope faithful Latter-day Saints will not use the playing cards which are used for gambling, either with or without the gambling." (The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p.355)​

President Joseph F. Smith taught:

"Card playing is a game of chance, and because it is a game of chance it has its tricks. It encourages tricks; its devotees measure their success at the table by their ability through devious and dark ways to win. It creates a spirit of cunning and devises hidden and secret means, and cheating at cards is almost synonymous with playing at cards. Again, cards have a bad reputation and they are the known companions of bad men. If no other reason existed for shunning the card table, its reputation alone should serve as a warning. It may be conceded that superb skill is often acquired in this game of chance, but this skill itself endangers the moral qualities of the possessor and leads him on to questionable practices. Such games as checkers and chess are games more of fixed rules whose application are open and freer from cunning devices. Such games do not intoxicate like cards and other games of chance." (Gospel Doctrine, p.331-332)​

President Heber J. Grant taught:

"By the way, I hear that card playing is becoming very, very popular, and that the Church must be in favor of card-playing, because the Church authorities never say anything against it. From the time I was a child and read the Juvenile Instructor, published for the benefit of the people, I have read nothing except condemnation of card-playing and the wasting of your time in doing something that brings no good, bodily, intellectually, or in any way, and sometimes leads your children to become gamblers, because they become expert card-players. The Church as a Church requests its members not to play cards. I hope you understand me, and I want you to know that I am speaking for the Church when I ask the people to let cards alone." (Gospel Standards, p.42)​

President Joseph Fielding Smith taught:

"Children should be encouraged in the home to read and be instructed in the value of good books and how to discriminate between the good and the bad in literature. It is far better for a home to be thus provided where the children can be entertained with a good, wholesome story than to more than waste their time playing cards—a habit that cannot too severely be condemned—or spending their time in poolhalls or upon the streets in company of evil associates…." (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.3, p.204)​

Elder Bruce R. McConkie taught:

"President Joseph F. Smith has stated the position of the Church with reference to card playing in these words: "Card playing is an excessive pleasure; it is intoxicating and, therefore, in the nature of a vice. It is generally the companion of the cigaret and the wine glass, and the latter lead to the poolroom and the gambling hall. . . . Few indulge frequently in card playing in whose lives it does not become a ruling passion. . . . A deck of cards in the hands of a faithful servant of God is a satire upon religion. . . . Those who thus indulge are not fit to administer in sacred ordinances. . . . The bishops are charged with the responsibility for the evil, and it is their duty to see that it is abolished. . . . No man who is addicted to card playing should be called to act as a ward teacher; such men cannot be consistent advocates of that which they do not themselves practice.​

"The card table has been the scene of too many quarrels, the birthplace of too many hatreds, the occasion of too many murders to admit one word of justification for the lying, cheating spirit which it too often engenders in the hearts of its devotees. . . .​

"Card playing is a game of chance, and because it is a game of chance it has its tricks. It encourages tricks; its devotees measure their success at the table by their ability through devious and dark ways to win. It creates a spirit of cunning and devises hidden and secret means, and cheating at cards is almost synonymous with playing at cards." (Gospel Doctrine, 5th ed., pp. 328-332.)​

Members of the Church should not belong to bridge or other type of card clubs, and they should neither play cards nor have them in their homes. By cards is meant, of course, the spotted face cards used by gamblers. To the extent that church members play cards they are out of harmony with their inspired leaders. Innocent non-gambling games played with other types of cards, except for the waste of time in many instances, are not objectionable." (Mormon Doctrine, p.113)​

Light Planet

 

[FFH]

Will get back to this got to head to work...

 

[Hope]

FFH, do you by any chance celebrate Christmas or Easter?

 

[FFH]

I'm just hoping for his own sake, then, that FFH doesn't have a solitaire program on his computer. :rainbow1:

Funny...

That's one of the first things I delete, when I buy/set up a computer.

 

[Popeyesays]

Actually you can learn a lot by learning to play some games well: Bridge, hearts, gin rummy, cribbage all involve a great deal of prediction and quick response to a changing situation.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Aqualung]

I already know they're no good, without having to consult anyone. I measure everything by how it/they affect/s my spirit, and face cards harm my spirit in a way I can only describe as being hurt/harmed spiritually...

Well, then, they're definitely bad for YOU, but I think Paul explained it pretty well when he said that, while we are freed from the law, we should never do anything that makes us feel like we are sinning. Peter received revelation that nothing is unclean in itself. But, I don't feel like I am sinning when I use cards, and last time I check, I was the one authorised to recieve revelation for myself (aside from the prophet). Furthermore, nothing that the prophets have said is actual revelation, just words of advice. So to say that playing cards give YOU an evil spirit is fine. But to go so far as to say that playing are just plain evil is not.

 

[Aqualung]

Actually you can learn a lot by learning to play some games well: Bridge, hearts, gin rummy, cribbage all involve a great deal of prediction and quick response to a changing situation.

Regards,
Scott

We played cribbage in math when I was in the sixth grade.

 

[FFH]

Maybe if you want real facts you should do some real research into the history of playing cards, the Tarrochi, and the Rider-Waite. Because right now all you've presented is little bits of fact put together in a way--laden with ridiculous conspiracies that is--that makes them simply false.

So you don't think this link is valid, which connects current playing card indices with Tarot cards ???

International Playing-Card Society - Brief History of Playing-Cards

 

[MaddLlama]

So you don't think this link is valid, which connects current playing card indices with Tarot cards ???

International Playing-Card Society - Brief History of Playing-Cards

No, I don't think it's entirely valid. You're also apparently working off the assumption that Tarot cards have always been about fortune telling. The cards that the modern version of tarot were based on were playing cards. Look up the game "tarrocchi". It wasn't until some centuries later that cards as a fortune telling device even existed.

So, with that little bit of history in mind, what grounds do you have to call them evil?

 

[FFH]

FFH, do you by any chance celebrate Christmas or Easter?

Santa Clause, Christmas trees and the Easter Bunny, NO, Jesus Christ's birth and resurrection, YES.

Peace

 

[FFH]

Well, then, they're definitely bad for YOU, but I think Paul explained it pretty well when he said that, while we are freed from the law, we should never do anything that makes us feel like we are sinning. Peter received revelation that nothing is unclean in itself.

Please quote scripture...I think you're confusing what he said about certain previously forbidden foods in the Old Testament law.

You need to back up this claim with scripture, otherwise I will not debate it, since you've cited Peter saying supposedly what he said, not knowing what he was referring to unless you quote him/refer me to scripture stating this...

You may be interpreting what Peter said incorrectly, but again I need you to quote scripture/scriptures backing up your/Peter's claim in context..

But, I don't feel like I am sinning when I use cards, and last time I check, I was the one authorised to recieve revelation for myself (aside from the prophet).

So your revelation over rides the Prophets and Apostles of the church, both past and present ???

Your revelation contradicts four Prophets and one Apostle, quoted earlier...

It's easy to say "I had a revelation," much harder to back that claim up.

Furthermore, nothing that the prophets have said is actual revelation

just words of advice.

So to say that playing cards give YOU an evil spirit is fine. But to go so far as to say that playing are just plain evil is not.

So you disagree with four Prophets and one Apostle, concerning this..

I echo what these Prophets and Apostles teach, they are no good and should not be in anyone's possession/home...

 

[FFH]

No, I don't think it's entirely valid. You're also apparently working off the assumption that Tarot cards have always been about fortune telling. The cards that the modern version of tarot were based on were playing cards. Look up the game "tarrocchi". It wasn't until some centuries later that cards as a fortune telling device even existed.

So, with that little bit of history in mind, what grounds do you have to call them evil?

So what order are you claiming these cards to have their origins ???

Tarot
Tarochi
Poker/bridge/face/playing cards

Put them in the order of their origin, the oldest being first.

 

[Buttercup]

I'd like to ask any other LDS members to answer this question.....

What is the current stance within the church for card playing? FFH says the quoted prophets are all dead. Has the church's opinion changed about playing cards?

Katuzpur? Deep Shadow?