Are Playing Cards Evil ???

[MaddLlama]

So what order are you claiming these cards to have their origins ???

Tarot
Tarochi
Poker/bridge/face/playing cards

Put them in the order of their origin, the oldest being first.

• Playing cards without faces (though some say there were playing cards with line drawings in Egypt, though there is no clear connection, if they existed, between them and other playing cards)
• Tarrocchi
• Playing Cards with faces
• Tarot

 

[madhatter85]

I'd like to ask any other LDS members to answer this question.....

What is the current stance within the church for card playing? FFH says the quoted prophets are all dead. Has the church's opinion changed about playing cards?

Katuzpur? Deep Shadow?

<H2>“How should I feel about playing cards?”

​

Boyd R. Thomas, “Q&A: Questions and Answers,” New Era, Oct. 1984, 49–50
Answer/Brother Boyd R. Thomas
This question is really a double one. It may be asked either as “How should I feel about playing games with cards?” or “How should I feel about playing cards?” There is a substantial difference between playing games which use cards to give directions and instructions and playing games which use the ancient, double-faced cards, sometimes called “playing cards.” The nature of the cards used is an important distinction.
The playing of games in the family setting—both the active, outdoor type and the more sedentary, indoor kind—I view as great teaching aids. By this means personality traits may be developed and children learn acceptable ways to interact with others. For example, it has been important to me to teach my children how to handle defeat or disappointment. Games have been invaluable for this.
The two most common criticisms of card playing have been, first, that it is a waste of time, and second, that it tends to end in gambling. Both criticisms are valid because, while extremes, they too often occur. Writing at a time before the advent of excessive TV viewing, which is the modern time waster, and before the coming of extensive state-sponsored lotteries, which today enhance the tendency to gamble, some of our General Authorities have spoken out against card playing. Let us consider what President Joseph F. Smith said:
“While a simple game of cards in itself may be harmless, it is a fact that by immoderate repetition it ends in an infatuation for chance schemes, in habits of excess, in waste of precious time, in dulling and stupor of the mind, and in the complete destruction of religious feeling. … There is the grave danger that lurks in persistent card playing, which begets the spirit of gambling, of speculation and that awakens the dangerous desire to get something for nothing.
“One’s character may be determined in some measure by the quality of one’s amusements. Men and women of industrious business-like, and thoughtful habits care little for frivolous pastimes, for pleasures that are sought for their own sake. It is not easy to imagine that leading men in the Church would find any pleasure that was either inspiring or helpful at the card table” (Gospel Doctrine, 5th ed., Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1939, p. 329).
Elder John A. Widtsoe has given a useful perspective:
“It must be added that relaxation from the regular duties of the day is desirable and necessary for human well-being. Wholesome games of recreation are advocated by all right-minded people. Moreover, the … objections [to card playing] are not directed against the many and various card games on the market not employing the usual ‘playing cards.’ Most of these furnish innocent and wholesome recreation, and many are really instructive. It is true that they may be played to excess, but in fact it seldom happens. This is true even when such cards are used in games imitating those with ‘playing cards.’ It is true that such cards may be used for gambling purposes, but in fact it is almost never done. The pall of evil seems to rest upon the ‘playing cards’ handed down to us from antiquity” (Evidences and Reconciliations, Murray & Gee, 1943, pp. 218–19).
While it is best to avoid the use of “playing cards,” my personal experiences indicate that our family has enjoyed many benefits from playing games with cards. At a time when amusements are generally enjoyed alone, for example TV viewing and video game playing, we in our family like to play card games together. It has been both unifying and has provided the arena for much give and take. All in all, playing card games has given us many delightful moments.

</H2>
that is how the church feels about it, that was only 23 years ago so i think it's more than likely still valid. even if if were 2000 years old i would still consider it valid.

 

[Buttercup]

Thanks, Madhatter. That sounds much more reasonable, logical and sane.

 

[Aqualung]

Please quote scripture...I think you're cofusing what he said about certain previously forbidden foods in the Old Testament law.

You need to back up this claim with scripture, otherwise I will not debate it, since you've cited Peter saying supposedly what he said, not knowing what he was referring to unless you quote him/refer me to scripture stating this...

Ro 14, Luke 11:41. The acts one, though, specifies what God has cleansed, though, and I don't think you would think God has cleansed cards.

So your revelation over rides the Prophets and Apostles of the church, both past and present ???

My REVELATION overrides advice, yes.

 

[MaddLlama]

Gambling is bad for you. Obsessing over something so that it overruns your life is bad for you.

Small pieces of paper with pictures on them are not infused with supernatural evil. Unless you actually infuse them yourself.

 

[nutshell]

So, Mormons, what's the temple recommend question that addresses playing cards?

 

[Hope]

Please quote scripture...I think you're confusing what he said about certain previously forbidden foods in the Old Testament law.

You need to back up this claim with scripture, otherwise I will not debate it, since you've cited Peter saying supposedly what he said, not knowing what he was referring to unless you quote him/refer me to scripture stating this...

You may be interpreting what Peter said incorrectly, but again I need you to quote scripture/scriptures backing up your/Peter's claim in context..

I Corinthians 8 and 10. I mentioned them in my post, and aqualung referred to them as well. They're too long to post here, so if you have a Bible (and I'm assuming you do), you can look them up yourself.

They specifically refer to eating meat sacrificed to idols, but if you read the whole chapters you will see how Paul uses this example to show how it's necessary to prefer each other in love. Concerning matters that are not explicitly forbidden in Scripture, and that are not doctrinally significant, one must be very careful not to make rules and laws where there are none. I stated this in my previous post. When you do start making these laws (i.e., playing cards are "evil" and should therefore be avoided) you start heading down the slippery slope of legalism. Legalism sucks the life out of pure religion. We become like the Pharisees. Keeping up the outward appearance while neglecting the most important part, the part that God looks at the most: our hearts.

If you, FFH, or anyone else, feels playing cards are wrong, then, by all means, don't play cards. If your conscience won't allow it, then listen to your conscience. But those of us who feel more freedom in this regard, and whose consciences are not bothered, should not be made to feel we are sinning when we aren't. If playing cards are something that is expressly forbidden in Scripture, then you have a case. But since they aren't, and even Paul said "all things are permissable, but not all things are profitable," then out of love, and out of recognition of the freedom given to us through Christ Jesus, it is wise to refrain from making new laws.

 

[FFH]

Ro 14, Luke 11:41. The acts one, though, specifies what God has cleansed, though, and I don't think you would think God has cleansed cards.

Romans 14
I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Luke 11
But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you.

So you're using this scripture to justify all things as good, even if they're bad...

So basically I can apply this to anything I see...

Any image I hang on my wall is good, even if it portrays evil..

So if I hang a picture on my wall of the twin towers being destroyed by terrorists, with framed pictures of all the terrists involved, it would not disturb you in the least..

It would bother you, if you came into my home, and you would want to know why I had these particuar images on my living room wall...

It's the same with the Lord, he wants to know why we have these poker/bridge cards in our homes, which are so prevalently used for gambling and other evil uses...

The pictures are not evil, in and of themselves, but it's what they represent, which makes them evil...

Would it not disturb you to see these images on my wall, in the living room for instance, and would you not certainly want to know why I had those pictures framed and hung in a prominent spot in my home ???

Bottom line it would disturb you...

That's how I feel about Poker cards being used in the home, it's a complete intrusion into the sanctity of the home..

Bottom line, they're used for gambling, which the LDS church has spoken against time and time again, so buy another set of cards without these indices/symbols on them and use those for wholesome games (not those associated with gambling)...

It's what they're used for (gambling) that's so offensive to the Lord, not to mention the many other uses of these cards, for instance, to tell someone's future (divination) as Tarot cards....

So basically I can listen to, watch or look at anything I want, and even though it may be evil, as long as I don't think it's evil, I can still justify it as a good thing, verses seeing it for what it really is; evil.

Wow, now I can just do or have whatever I want, as long as I don't think it's evil...

This isn't a good thought pattern. I've fallen into that trap before... It messed me up pretty bad..

My REVELATION overrides advice, yes.

So your advice should be heeded over four past Presidents of the LDS church and a very well known Apostle of the Lord.

 

[FFH]

So, Mormons, what's the temple recommend question that addresses playing cards?

"Is there anything in your conduct that's not in harmony with the teachings of the church?"

"Do you sustain/support all church leaders?"

 

[McBell]

Romans 14
I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Luke 11
But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you.

So you're using this scripture to justify all things as good, even if they're bad...

So basically I can apply this to anything I see...

Any image I hang on my wall is good, even if it portrays evil..

So if I hang a picture on my wall of the twin towers being destroyed by two maniacs, "it's all good"...

Would that not bother you if you came into my home and you saw that picture on the wall ???

Would it not disturb you, and you would certainly want to know why I had that picture framed and hung in a prominent spot in my home ???

Bottom line it would disturb you...

That's how I feel about Poker cards being used in the home, it's a complete intrusion into the sanctity of the home..

Bottom line, they're used for gambling, which the LDS church has spoken against time and time again, so buy another set of cards without these indices/symbols on them and use those for wholesome games (not those associated with gambling)...

It's what they're used for (gambling) that's so offensive to the Lord....

So basically I can listen to, watch or look at anything I want, and even though it may be evil, as long as I don't think it's evil, I can still justify it as a good thing, verses seeing it for what it really is.

Wow, now I can just do or have whatever I want, as long as I don't think it's evil...

This is not a good thought pattern. I've fallen into that trap before... It messed me up bad...

Actually, it seems to me that the romans 14 verse is merely verification of what Hope said:

If you, FFH, or anyone else, feels playing cards are wrong, then, by all means, don't play cards. If your conscience won't allow it, then listen to your conscience. But those of us who feel more freedom in this regard, and whose consciences are not bothered, should not be made to feel we are sinning when we aren't. If playing cards are something that is expressly forbidden in Scripture, then you have a case. But since they aren't, and even Paul said "all things are permissible, but not all things are profitable," then out of love, and out of recognition of the freedom given to us through Christ Jesus, it is wise to refrain from making new laws.
​

You seem to be saying that the only reason for the existence of cards is for gambling.
Something that I know for a fact is flat out wrong.

Or perhaps you are saying that because cards can be used for gambling that that makes them evil.
One can apply this line of reasoning to anything one wants to, even the Bible.
Is this not the source of your mini rant above, that something can be applied to whatever the applier wants to apply it to?

Lastly, you have provided nothing but the opinions of others to support your opinion that cards are evil.

So your advice should be heeded over four past Presidents of the LDS church and a very very very well known Apostle of the Lord.

Since I am not a member of the LDS church, I feel no need to take something that past presidents of that organization say as anything other than their opinion on the matter.

Further more, it appears you have turned this 'cards are evil' charade into nothing more than an appeal to numbers contest.

 

[FFH]

Straight and simple Mestemia, it's what they represent, that's offensive to the Lord.

It's what they represent (gambling) and what they're mostly/exclusively used for in that industry, which is offensive, to a person who does not gamble...

If I hung a picture of Jesus in an athiest room, would that not be offensive to him/her ???

The picture is nothing but a rendering of what people think Jesus looks like, but it's what he represents, to athiests, that's offensive..

So by this same thought pattern I can go ahead and hang pictures of Jesus Christ in any federal building I want to, in this nation, and there won't be any outcry from the public...

After all, hey, it's just a picture...

Or how about a cross on/in/outside every public building in this nation or a Jewish star, for that matter, or a crecent moon...

After all they're just symbols representing those particular religions.

It goes both ways, you would be just as offended...

So it is with poker cards...

 

[Bishka]

which is offensive, to a person who does not gamble...

No they aren't.

 

[s2a]

Folks...let's all bear in mind that it was FFH that brought a flood posting of errata entitled: "Bible Matrix prophecies: 2006".

None of the afforded (let me reemphasize that), NONE of the "decoded prophecies" were ever realized, even to this day.

NONE.

Read through the entirety of that thread (as painful as it may be) to garner some relative perspective and context of which to politely treat with FFH's erratic, ironic, and readily eviscerated acts of errant evangelism.

C'mon ya'll!

Just why don't you just feel guilty about playing poker, and gambling at cards and humbly become a penitent sinner seeking forgiveness and redemption before God Almighty?

Don't be a pawn of the Joker...errr...Satan!

Repent! Now!

Get Jesus...before he gets you!

 

[Aqualung]

Romans 14
I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Luke 11
But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you.

So you're using this scripture to justify all things as good, even if they're bad...

No, I'm not. I'm using scripture to justify that all THINGS are CLEAN. Actions might not be clean. Intents might not be clean. They might not be good. But THINGS are clean (as stated in the Bible). It is the actions or intents that are evil. Playing cards can be used for evil (gambling) but all THINGS (including playing cards, presumably) are clean.

So basically I can apply this to anything I see...

Any image I hang on my wall is good, even if it portrays evil..

If YOU think it portrays evil, then no, it's not good. This causes actions that are not good (that is, denying your conscience or the spirit just to have the picture on the wall), but the picture in itself is still clean. It's just your reactions to it and actions stemming from it that aren't.

So if I hang a picture on my wall of the twin towers being destroyed by terrorists, with framed pictures of all the terrists involved, it would not disturb you in the least..

Sure, it would disturb ME, but I also wouldn't have it hanging in my house. But, as the Bible states, all THINGS are clean. Again, it the actions that I take in regards to these things that are either clean or not.

It would bother you, if you came into my home, and you would want to know why I had these particuar images on my living room wall...

I don't know if I care enough about what other people find aesthetically pleasing to want to know why, but I guess for the hypothetical we could accept that. But just for this thread.

It's the same with the Lord, he wants to know why we have these poker/bridge cards in our homes, which are so prevalently used for gambling and other evil uses...

And what if I told him, "I use them because playing cards together is one of the only activities my family enjoys doing together. I learn more about them and their lives playing cards with them than I ever would have if we didn't have cards. Even though they are used for gambling by some people, I never had a thought to gamble with them, deceiving my brothers and sisters in Christ out of their hard-earned money and enticing them with dreams of huge profit." What do you think he would say about that?

The pictures are not evil, in and of themselves, but it's what they represent, which makes them evil...

And representations are ENTIRELY internal. You think cards represent evil, so, by all means, please don't play cards. I had never even heard that some people thought they represented evil until you brought it up, and I'm not even convinced that they DO represent evil in even the slightest way, so why should I shun them?

That's how I feel about Poker cards being used in the home, it's a complete intrusion into the sanctity of the home..

Then don't use them. I wouldn't think the same way, though, so why should I refrain? (Obviously, though, if you were ever to come over, I would make sure my cards were out of sight, for if I make my brother to stumble, the blame is on me, but what about when you're not around, and you have no idea what I'm doing? Why should I refrain from something that does ME no harm, and actually helps me strengthen certain LDS ideals (namely, the family)?)

It's what they're used for (gambling) that's so offensive to the Lord, not to mention the many other uses of these cards, for instance, to tell someone's future (divination) as Tarot cards....

How do you know this? How do you know that it's not the actions and intents of the card users that offends the Lord so much? How do you know it's the THINGS (which Jesus, in the Bible, said were clean) that offends him?

Wow, now I can just do or have whatever I want, as long as I don't think it's evil...

Exactly. The the message that Paul and others preached. The higher law is about the conscience and the intuition with the spirit, not about following point-by-point laws that govern every single aspect of your lives.

 

[Buttercup]

It's the same with the Lord, he wants to know why we have these poker/bridge cards in our homes, which are so prevalently used for gambling and other evil uses...

Can't you say this about owning a computer and getting on the internet?

Computers are used to view illicit porn among other 'evil' acts.

 

[FFH]

Folks...let's all bear in mind that it was FFH that brought a flood posting of errata entitled: "Bible Matrix prophecies: 2006".

None of the afforded (let me reemphasize that), NONE of the "decoded prophecies" were ever realized, even to this day.

NONE.

Read through the entirety of that thread (as painful as it may be) to garner some relative perspective and context of which to politely treat with FFH's erratic, ironic, and readily eviscerated acts of errant evangelism.

C'mon ya'll!

Just why don't you just feel guilty about playing poker, and gambling at cards and humbly become a penitent sinner seeking forgiveness and redemption before God Almighty?

Don't be a pawn of the Joker...errr...Satan!

Repent! Now!

Get Jesus...before he gets you!

Boy that was offensive..

**Discredit the opposing part** and effective tactic...

Never claimed to be perfect, but am striving in that direction...

I apologized to you in that thread, or did you forget that...

I posted those codes for all to see, if they in fact came true in any way.

I've never deleted anything on that thread and all are welcome to scrutinize it and see it for what it is..

No apologies here for that thread...

See it for what is is...

This is a religious forum, so should be all just talk about the weather ???????????

 

[McBell]

Straight and simple Mestemia, it's what they represent, that's offensive to the Lord.

And again you show a serious lack of basic understanding of what symbolism is.
to YOU they represent something you believe to be offensive to the lord.
To me, they do not represent anything the lord would find as offensive.

It's what they represent (gambling) and what they're mostly/exclusively used for in that industry, which is offensive, to a person who does not gamble...

I must have missed the verse that states that gambling is a sin.
Would you please be so kind as to present it?

If I hung a picture of Jesus in an athiest room, would that not be offensive to him ???

Quite possibley it would.
However this actually hurts your case as it shows that representation is subjective.

The picture is nothing but a rendering of what people think Jesus looks like, but it's what he represents to athiests, that's offensive..

This also hurts your case.
It shows that perhaps you do understand that what something represents to someone is within that someone, not the item.

Perversity is in the eyes of the perceiver, NOT in what is being perceived.

So by this same thought pattern I can go ahead and hang pictures of Jesus Christ in any federal building I want to, in this nation, and there won't be any outcry from the public...
After all, hey, it's just a picture...
Or how about a cross on/in/outside every public building in this nation or a Jewish star, for that matter, or a crescent moon...
After all they're just symbols representing those particular religions.
It goes both ways, you would be just as offended...

Because the majority of people agree that certain symbols represent certain certain religious affiliations, to present one of said representations is seen as supporting what the symbol represents.
Since the US has this thing about not being allowed to promote one religion over another, every single religion would have to have one of it's symbols presented as well. Since there are religions popping up left and right in this country (USA) it would be impossible to keep up with all the symbols.

So it is with poker cards...

For you perhaps.
And for the small number of people who share in that opinion.
But not for the majority of people.

 

[FFH]

Sure, it would disturb ME, but I also wouldn't have it hanging in my house.

it's the same principle/thought pattern, regarding poker cards, by which I started this thead.

They are disturbing to me. Just seeing a deck of cards disturbs me...

I'm not perfect in any way, only one person, who has ever lived on this earth, can claim to be perfect...

Posting this stuff so others might consider what they have not considered before...

I'm interested in bringing my life to a place of peace, while on this earth. Is that not what we're all striving for...

 

[Buttercup]

Boy that was offensive..

I also apologized to you in that thead, or did you forget that...

I think I understand where he's coming from. If you find playing cards to be evil, fine. Just don't try to make us feel as though it's evil for us to play. I can honestly say that the thought of playing cards being evil has never crossed my mind. And, now that it has crossed my mind because of the attention brought on by you, I am even more certain that playing a friendly game of cards with family or friends is entirely innocent. It's no different than shooting hoops or playing tennis with family as well.

People who see evil everywhere actually scare me. Lighten up FFH!

 

[YmirGF]

I disdain concepts of evil but I do believe in ignorance.

I am an avid Cribbage player (and darn good) and am going to learn the art of Bridge very soon. Evil is as evil does. When you are "good" evil has no meaning. Case closed. By the way: God is a cracker Poker player. Talk about holding ones cards close to one's chest. Oy vey. (Tip: Do not let him be the dealer.)