Are Playing Cards Evil ???

[FFH]

Maybe because you're busy enabling their behavior instead of helping them get help?

I've tried it both ways, like for instance ratting on someone for stealing verses keeping my mouth shut. I agonized about one employee/assistant manager for days if not weeks and then went above the main manager and called the district manager who happened to be meeting with the national human resources person of the company i work for who promptly fired this assistant manager the very next day. I had worked with this guy for years, we were good friends, but he was stealing loads of money and our jobs were at stake. That store quickly closed down after he was fired and he drank himself to death, literally within about 2 or 3 years, he never recovered from being fired from that job and I felt very very very bad about it for years... He died at around age 35, just one year older than myself at the time...

He was so upset at me that he poured sugar in my gas tank twice and ruined my car the second time...

Jesus said, "if someone takes your coat, give him your cloak also"

This can be applied to those who steal from us...give them a little room to change their ways...

I didn't give this guy enough room to change and he went into a deep despair and drank himself to death in his mothers home and left behind a small child of his..

 

[MaddLlama]

I've tried it both ways, like for instance ratting on someone for stealing verses keeping my mouth shut. I agonized about one employee/assistant manager for days if not weeks and then went above the main manager and called the district manager who happened to be meeting with the national human resources person of the company i work for who promptly fired this assistant manager the very next day. I had worked with this guy for years, we were good friends, but he was stealing loads of money and our jobs were at stake. That store quickly closed down after he was fired and he drank himself to death, literally within about 2 or 3 years, he never recovered from being fired from that job and I felt very very very bad about it for years... He died at around age 35, just one year older than myself at the time...

He was so upset at me that he poured sugar in my gas tank twice and ruined my car the second time...

Jesus said, "if someone takes your coat, give him your cloak also"

This can be applied to those who steal from us...give them a little room to change their ways...

I didn't give this guy enough room to change and he went into a deep despair and drank himself to death in his mothers home and left behind a small child of his..

Would you like to answer my other questions, or are you purposefully evading them?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Ah, I can see the confusion over what is the making of true compassion.

One can be truly motivated to act out of compassion for others, for their welfare, safety, and peace of mind, but if one does not couple this compassion with wisdom, it is nothing more than what Buddha might call "idiot compassion."

It's like the average joe-schmoe taking a knife to the eyes of someone suffering from cataracts - he's urged to help by trying to take the cataracts out himself, but he does not have the wisdom to do so. His carelessness very likely will hinder or harm the sufferer as a result.

I don't doubt your heart is in the right place, FFH, but I wonder just how much you are grasping and clinging to a symbolic interpretation that may more or less be arbitrary.




Peace,
Mystic

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

He was so upset at me that he poured sugar in my gas tank twice and ruined my car the second time...

Many cars come with locking filler hatches. You can also by locking gas caps from many auto supply stores.

Jesus said, "if someone takes your coat, give him your cloak also"

This can be applied to those who steal from us...give them a little room to change their ways...

If you're working with someone who steals from the workplace, he's not stealing from you, he's stealing from your employer. I do believe that the Bible talks about loyalty to one's employer, doesn't it?

 

[Aqualung]

it's the same principle/thought pattern, regarding poker cards, by which I started this thead.

In YOUR mind, to YOUR perceptions, it is the same. But not to MY mind or to MY percetions. Cards are disturbing TO ME. Cards aren't disturbing to a lot of people. And, all THINGS are clean. So, playing cards cannot be evil qua playing cards.

Posting this stuff so others might consider what they have not considered before...

And I'm just posting my response so others might consider what they haven't considered before - namely, that all things are clean, but one must avoid things that cause unclean ACTIONS or INTENTS in their minds or hearts.

Yes, we are all striving for peace, but not all of must banish playing cards from our house for peace.

 

[Aqualung]

It's not within me, it's something the Lord has whispered to my being/spirit to avoid.

Where is your being/spirt? It's certainly not withing ME, and it can't possibly be within the cards. So, then, if it's not in you, it's not in me, and it's not in the cards, where is your being/spirit?

 

[Bishka]

Just to throw a heads up to everyone (that does not already know). FFH's behaviour is not normal for an LDS person. Most LDS play cards, but do not end up gambling. If it really was a commandment/doctrine then none of us would play cards.

I play cards with my husband and family all the time and I don't feel evil or have a sense of evil in my home. I feel happy, loved and cared for when I'm playing games with my family. I'm sure most of the other LDS can attest to this.

I do not know what FFH is trying to push here, but do not take it as a whole account of the LDS Church members. Thank you!

P.S. FFH, it has NEVER been official doctrine that we can't play cards, and that's what I'm sticking too, official doctrine!

 

[Aqualung]

Wow, do Mormons not believe in that whole "judge not" thing? Or is guessing at the spiritual faith of others somehow different?

That's a stereotype to generalise from the actions of one person in one thread to the entire religion, would you say?

 

[Jaymes]

That's a stereotype to generalise from the actions of one person in one thread to the entire religion, would you say?

I don't believe I stereotyped... if I did, it was unintentional. I was asking if Mormons believe in the "judge not" bit. I'm well aware that FFH isn't what would be considered a "mainstream" Mormon, which is why I was asking for clarification.

 

[FFH]

I don't believe I stereotyped... if I did, it was unintentional. I was asking if Mormons believe in the "judge not" bit. I'm well aware that FFH isn't what would be considered a "mainstream" Mormon, which is why I was asking for clarification.

Jaymes, it's perfectly acceptable to judge righteous judgemant, according to Jesus Christ.

Leviticus 19: 15
Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgement: thou shalt not respext the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

Deuteronomy 1: 16
And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

John 7: 24
Judge not not according to the appearances, but judge righteous judgment.

Doctrine and Covenants 11: 12
LDS scripture
And now, verily, verily, I say unto thee, put your trust in that spirit which leadeth to do good—yea, to do justly, to walk humbly, to judge righteously; and this is my Spirit.

 

[MaddLlama]

I don't know if I would consider proclaiming that playing cards are evil is a righteous judgment. Seems more like an arbitrary one.

 

[FFH]

Matthew 7: 1
King James version
Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Matthew 7:1
Joseph Smith inspired version
Judge not unrighteously, that ye be not judged; but judge righteous judgment.

According to Joseph Smith, the King James Matthew 7: 1 is in error.

So this should answer your question whether or not it's okay for an LDS member, or anyone else for that matter, to pass righteous judgement upon another.

Like Becky said, I'm not your average LDS member at all..

Not interested in being average at all.

bye for now

 

[Bishka]

So this should answer your question whether or not it's okay for an LDS member or anyone else for that matter, to pass righteous judgement upon another.

And how we come to believe that you judgment is any more righteous then ours? There is righteous judgment, but I leave that up to our leaders, prophets and apostles. I may judge, but I try not to because it is not fully my place to make judgments on other people, things, etc. In the end it is up to God to judge, not man.

 

[Aqualung]

One would only be able to pass a RIGHTEOUS judgement on revelation that is able to be generalised to certain people. So, there is the revelation that one should not use tobacco. This is extended to everyone. But there is no revelation extended to everyone that we shan't play cards. There is advice to stay away from things that give us a bad spirit (and playing cards are mentioned as something that could do that), but, since there is no specific revelation for all members regarding this subject, there can be no righteous judgment to all members regarding this subject.

 

[nutshell]

Sounds like a new thread is needed.

 

[FFH]

I don't know if I would consider proclaiming that playing cards are evil is a righteous judgment. Seems more like an arbitrary one.

Arbitrary

1) subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion

2.decided by a judge or arbiter rather than by a law or statute. : an arbitrary decision

3) having unlimited power; uncontrolled or unrestricted by law; despotic; tyrannical: an arbitrary government.

4) capricious; unreasonable; unsupported: an arbitrary demand for payment.

God is our righteous judge, according to scripture, and he's decided to pass judgement regarding Poker cards in the home, by speaking through his mouthpieces (Prophets and Apostles) on earth, and I listen to him (God) as he also whispers to my mind and heart concerning this and any other important matter which may affect my spirit in a very bad way, and since this teaching is also echoed by his Prophets and Apostles of the LDS church, then I know I'm a "normal" and but definitely not you average LDS member.

Becky claims I'm "not a normal" LDS member, which is absolutely true from her perspective and many many others..

If this teaching , concerning playing cards being evil, were my feelings alone or coming from within me, which it's not, it's being taught directly to my spirit by the spirit of God/Holy Ghost, then why do four Prophets and one well known apostle back up what I've said here ???..

LDS churches are built without crosses on them, for a reason, since they represent a horrible torcher tool invented by man and inspired by Satan...

Why would any church want that on their roof ???

Same goes with poker cards, why would anyone want what's used in the gambling industry, in their homes, if they don't believe in gambling of any kind, which the LDS church has warned about, gambling in ALL it's forms..

I'm very normal when it comes to following the Prophets and Apostles of the LDS church....

Those who call me abnormal really don't subscribe to all the teachings of the church..

I've been married in the Salt Lake temple, the highest saving ordinance performed in holy LDS temples, which allows one to enter into the highest kingdom...

I served an LDS mission for two years, spent four years in the LDS seminary program in High School, spent years teaching the gospel in various settings, primary (children's organization), Young Mens (worked with Joseph Wirthlin Jr., the son of one of our current 12 Apostles, Joseph B. Wirthlin) and taught his grandson for several years until he went off to college) also taught in the Elders Quorum for many years.

Also seved with even the tiniest of tots, in the nursery, the most precious of all God's souls and served as secretary in the Elder's quorum for years, since I was about the only one who consistantly attended my meetings...

I've studied the four standard works of the LDS church, which includes the Bible, as far as it's translated correctly..

Challenge me on whatever subject...

So basically Becky has stated I'm "not normal"/abnormal for believing Poker cards should not be in the home, so basically she's also saying four Prophets and one very well known Apostles, Bruce R. McConkie are all "not normal"/abnormal, since they have voice my same opinion on this...

 

[FFH]

And how we come to believe that you judgment is any more righteous then ours? There is righteous judgment, but I leave that up to our leaders, prophets and apostles.

And they have already passed judgement upon Poker cards and deemed them unworthy to be in our homes

I may judge,

Oh yes, we all do to one degree or another FOR SURE...

but I try not to because it is not fully my place to make judgments on other people, things, etc.

Yet you do all the time, we all righteously or unrighteously judge each other, no one is immune to this, if you think you are anyone else then you've just judged everyone incorrectly. ALL secretly judge others in their hearts if not verbally...

In the end it is up to God to judge, not man.

Final judgement is pased/up to God, thank goodness, who would want that job, sooo sad to have to judge his own children, yet there is hope in Christ and all will eventually be redeemed from hell...

That's the big difference between our religion and other Christian organizations, hell is eternal, but only Satan and his angels will be there for eternity, not anyone who has ever lived on this earth and died..

Many will spend time in hell, but will eventually be redeemed at the time of the second resurrection, at the end of the millenial reign of Christ on earth, for a thousand years, which is very very soon, according to the revelations I've read...

We don't know the day or the hour, but we can know the approximate time frame by discerning the times we live in..

Peace...

 

[FFH]

One would only be able to pass a RIGHTEOUS judgement on revelation that is able to be generalised to certain people. So, there is the revelation that one should not use tobacco. This is extended to everyone. But there is no revelation extended to everyone that we shan't play cards. There is advice to stay away from things that give us a bad spirit (and playing cards are mentioned as something that could do that), but, since there is no specific revelation for all members regarding this subject, there can be no righteous judgment to all members regarding this subject.

How is it possible to overlook four Prophet's teachings concerning this and one very well known apostle ???

Did you miss my post earlier??? Should I post it again ???

Not passing judgement upon another, only posting what I know to be true and what past LDS church leaders have warned about..

Seriously the Word of Wisdom is easy to obey, but things like gambling are much much more addictive, from what I've seen...

The managers I worked with neither drank or smoke hardly at all, if ever, but were addicted to gambling, and were way hard to be around and work with, much more so than the druggies I've worked with over the years...

Gambling is highly destructive and addictive...

I could get addicted if I focused on it enough...anyone could...

I've just always had money so there was never any temptation to gamble, and if I did, I would only lose what I already had...

No need to risk losing what I already have, I have enough...

 

[FFH]

Sounds like a new thread is needed.

yeah probably, sorry...

 

[MaddLlama]

Arbitrary

1) subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion

2.decided by a judge or arbiter rather than by a law or statute. : an arbitrary decision

3) having unlimited power; uncontrolled or unrestricted by law; despotic; tyrannical: an arbitrary government.

4) capricious; unreasonable; unsupported: an arbitrary demand for payment.

Have a closer look at 1 and 4, if you would. That's what I mean by arbitrary.

God is our righteous judge, according to scripture, and he's decided to pass judgement regarding Poker cards in the home, by speaking through his mouthpieces (Prophets and Apostles) on earth, and I listen to him (God) as he also whispers to my mind and heart concerning this and any other important matter which may affect my spirit in a very bad way, and since this teaching is also echoed by his Prophets and Apostles of the LDS church, then I know I'm a "normal" and but definitely not you average LDS member.

And, who is this prophet that God gave this holy law to? You? I can't find anyplace in the bible that says playing cards are evil, and your Mormon brethren have already pointed out that there is no such rule against playing cards in Mormon or Christian doctrine.
So, it's you and you alone who are trying to make this judgment. But, not just for yourself, but for everyone.
Are you and official prophet of the LDS church?

If this teaching , concerning playing cards being evil, were my feelings alone or coming from within me, which it's not, it's being taught directly to my spirit by the spirit of God/Holy Ghost, then why do four Prophets and one well known apostle back up what I've said here ???..

Really, so far I've seen the opposite.

LDS churches are built without crosses on them, for a reason, since they represent a horrible torcher tool invented by man and inspired by Satan...

Why would any church want that on their roof ???

Same goes with poker cards, why would anyone want what's used in the gambling industry, in their homes, if they don't believe in gambling of any kind, which the LDS church has warned about, gambling in ALL it's forms..

I don't know, maybe because it represents the horrible sacrifice that Jesus made to pay for your sins and give you an opportunity to get into heaven?

Challenge me on whatever subject..

Ok...here's a couple.

Where do the companies that manufacture playing cards get their evil essence from? I mean, they put it in the cards, right? So where does it come from? Do they get special wholesale discounts from satan?

Also, how do you feel about personal responsibility? If someone has a few too many drinks, and breaks the law or hurts someone, is that person at fault, or is it the fault of all the people in the alcohol industry?

Am I going to hell because the pay check I live on comes from a beer distribution company that's owned by my family?

Have you read any non-religiously affiliated sources on the history of playing cards and tarot cards? If so, can you name the authors and titles of the works?

Do you feel as if you are in a position to tell every member of the LDS church what is and isn't evil?