Desert Snake
Veteran Member
No, Adam was just a man.
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Are prophets sinless, infallible people?
- Thread starter gnostic
- Start date
No, Adam was just a man.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Sabour
Well-Known Member
"Divine, much more than a regular man. Remember, Jesus was said to have been literally born of the Spirit, unto Mary, nothing like a prophet, really"
These were your own standards. Am I missing something ?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
That's the narrative. Not really my interpretation.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Do you mean by this that he is saying that he is divine?
I see it as someone saying don't praise me by saying "good"
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Yep, I do as well.
I think imperfection is a condition of humanity. Even Jesus as a man was imperfect. We cannot be here on earth and also be perfect.
This does not invalidate Jesus or any man. It only means to me we cannot trust blindly.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
That narrative is someone's interpretation that can be proven otherwise
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Well I don't know why you didn't answer.
Anyways we can't trust blindly true, that is why these prophets had miracles at their times so that they can prove who they are.
It was not a blind trust. They have seen the miracles.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Can't really be proven , that's why there are different types of Christians. I don't say other types of Christians are "wrong", it's how they interpret the scripture.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Well if you put all the contradicting ideas against each other and study the proofs and interpretations, you will know what I really mean.
For example, Did Jesus peace be upon him deny that he was god vs Did Jesus peace be upon him claimed divinity.
You will find that only one of these two contradicting ideas is supported by explicit statements. While the wrong idea is only supported by implicit statements taken out of context.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
I don't know if you've tried to prove this, more difficult than it seems imo.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Well okay let us try it. Can you give me two ideas?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
I'm not going to try that lol, I don't think it can be done very convincingly.
I'm going to look up verses anyways though, but keep in mind, I have no problem with considering Jesus divine.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Well okay as you like.
I don't mean to cross my line but I think you are not taking things seriously. As I see it you don't have a problem with a lot of things. I think you should do serious thinking and make a stand hearing different views.
If you were offended I am truly sorry but I truly did feel that I should speak it out.
Anyways I understand you're not interested in me putting what I think.
But If you really want some info about the subject than I advise you to youtube Ahmad dedat. He is really good at this. He has many debates with Christains, one of them is Jimmy Swaggart.
Ahmad dedat is the same guy of whom I provided the video about the crucifixion.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
I don't mind the dialogue. I can't get very involved right this minute anyway.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Prophet
breaking the statutes of my local municipality
Prophets are certainly not sinless, but they are the guides to a sinless world, a world where no being would ever harm another because it will be "filled with the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea"(Isa 11). They are not infallible either, but they can seem pretty invincible and knowledgable in debate, confounding their opponents to angry, hypocritical accusations. They are not capable of magic tricks like faith healing, but can show people how to heal their own minds by knowing themselves. "When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will know that you are the sons of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you are in poverty, and you are poverty."(Gospel of Thomas)
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Call_of_the_Wild
Well-Known Member
This is a good post..and if any of you people are familiar with my posts regarding the divinity of Jesus (The Trinity), you will know my stance on this.
Particularly when it comes to prophets, saints, holy men, etc...there are two questions that we can ask...
1. Can they sin?
2. Did they sin?
Those are two entirely different questions. Now consider Jesus; The bible is clear that Jesus did not sin (1 Peter 2:22). Now if Jesus didn't sin, did he NOT sin because he COULD, but didn't...or did he not sin because he just COULDN'T sin (impossibility).
Now consider God (The Father); Christians believe that God cannot sin. There is no possible world, or any set of circumstances that will allow for the possibility of God to sin. Now, if the same thing applies to Jesus, then Jesus and God both share the same moral character. But, if you share the same moral perfection as God, then you are God..so therefore, Jesus is God.
But we haven't yet established whether Jesus could sin or not, right? As mentioned previously, the bible teaches that Jesus did not sin. So why was Jesus able to do something that every human being did at least ONCE in their entire lives. Remember, Paul said we all sin and fall short of the glory of God (Rom 3:23). So who is left out of "all"? The saints? The prophets?
Jesus died for the sins of mankind, so if any holy man is morally perfect, then that would mean that Jesus didn't die for their sins, so therefore, they wouldn't need a Savior, right? And not only that, but if any holy man is morally perfect, then that would mean that this man would be able to die for the sins of everyone else, right?
So it seems that no one is "sinless"...no one is morally perfect, and if you can find someone that is morally perfect, that person's death would be sufficient to cover the sins of mankind...and the only person that qualifies for this job is Jesus Christ himself. So therefore, Jesus is God.