Are Religions and Gods manmade?

[TransmutingSoul]

And you are free to think you have all the answers.

Personally I have no answers to the world's issues, as I only share what Baha'u'llah offered.

If you ask about a solution, I will look up what the Baha'i Writings offer, and what past scriptures offer, but I do choose when I will do that.

So back to my main point. What measures do Baha'is adopt with the small number of people who will not fall into line?

Ignore them?
Talk to them?
Go to war against them?

The Baha'i will not be in control of World affairs and who can say how the future will unfold!

I see the elected nation representatives will choose and vote upon any action required.

WithIn the Baha'i faith, diplomacy has always been the method. If diplomacy ultimately fails, then various levels of spiritual sanctions are then imposed within the Faith.

Regards Tony

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Personally I have no answers to the world's issues, as I only share what Baha'u'llah offered.

If you ask about a solution, I will look up what the Baha'i Writings offer, and what past scriptures offer, but I do choose when I will do that.



The Baha'i will not be in control of World affairs and who can say how the future will unfold!

I see the elected nation representatives will choose and vote upon any action required.

Within the Baha'i faith, diplomacy has always been the method. If diplomacy ultimately fails, then various levels of spiritual sanctions are then imposed within the Faith.

Regards Tony

The ultimate has to be war because some will not stop until it's war.

Now you have the problem of deciding who decides togo to war.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The ultimate has to be war because some will not stop until it's war.

Now you have the problem of deciding who decides togo to war.

Could be, it might not be.

The world is showing many signs of a great shift. It may be a natural disaster on a worldwide scale.

It may be an object from space.

One would hope so, as any war to come would use the atom bomb.

Regards Tony

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Could be, it might not be.

The world is showing many signs of a great shift. It may be a natural disaster on a worldwide scale.

It may be an object from space.

One would hope so, as any war to come would use the atom bomb.

Regards Tony

When that day comes we will all rejoice.

 

[Trailblazer]

He could have written about major things that dwarf all others. If he knew anything.

He did.

 

[Trailblazer]

Some people will expect everyone to fall in line with the "evidence" that converted them. No matter how wrong they are. Religion does that to some.

Some people will disregard the "evidence" based solely upon their own confirmation bias no matter how wrong they are.

 

[Bird123]

I said that if you investigate you can prove to yourself that the Messengers truly got messages from God, but that is not the same thing as proving that as a fact that everyone will agree upon so it might be a fact to you, but not an established fact.

fact
something that is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information:

FACT | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

As I said before, I do not believe that God goes visiting and I do not believe God holds any petty things dear and I do not believe Messengers reveal petty things.

How would anyone know that what they Discovered are facts and not beliefs?

All you ever said is that we can Discover God through His actions and I told you I do not believe that what we SEE in the world represents God's actions but rather it represents the actions of man.

You did not answer my question. I asked: "But you expect me to blindly accept that you had interaction with the Almighty God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth?"

Pandemics are caused by a virus and death is just part of life. God does not stop these things but God does not cause them either.
People go hungry because of humans who do not care enough about other people.
God allows some religions to exist that are not true because God honors free will.

I already told you I do not believe God visits anyone, so we are going on circles.

You mean everything you believe about God, nothing that can ever be proven as a fact.

I do not think you have a clue at all. Knowledge exists beyond your feeling and believing.

I do not see any point going round and round on the same points we have covered in the past as well as recently. We are not going anywhere except in circles.

your quote:I said that if you investigate you can prove to yourself that the Messengers truly got messages from God, but that is not the same thing as proving that as a fact that everyone will agree upon so it might be a fact to you, but not an established fact.
My Answer: What you are really saying is that through investigation one can establish a Belief. On the other hand, a messenger who actually did have an interaction with God would have the proof. I do not believe they have simply through their actions. They do not reflect God. Further, God mentioned no messengers to me at all. Why not? God already knew that I know messengers are not needed with God's system. That crutch does not entirely lead in the right direction.

your quote:As I said before, I do not believe that God goes visiting and I do not believe God holds any petty things dear and I do not believe Messengers reveal petty things.
My Answer: Beliefs are a dime a dozen. Are you taking efforts to Discover whether these beliefs are true or do you just accept.

your quote:
I told you I do not believe that what we SEE in the world represents God's actions but rather it represents the actions of man.
My Answer: Is not all this God's creation? One's creation reflects One. You can not separate the two. By separating the two, you eliminate so many valuable questions. It also shows you value blame, thereby you blame mankind. This leads you to see negatively on people and this world. You choose to value those petty things rather than Discovering what actually exists.

If God is perfect, how could God create such imperfection in mankind? There are a million questions that can not be ignored if one really seeks the truth. The answers to these questions do exist. Everything about God will add up perfectly.

your quote:
Pandemics are caused by a virus and death is just part of life. God does not stop these things but God does not cause them either.
People go hungry because of humans who do not care enough about other people.
God allows some religions to exist that are not true because God honors free will.
My Answer: How can you say God has no hand in these things when God created it all? Do you always close your eyes to everything except what you want to see? These are actions of God. Why does God do it? Could there be something like Reasons??

Do you understand why I say your vision is narrow and you are blind to so much. Much more information lives beyond the surface. How does it all add up? It adds up just as it is, without blinders on. It's going to take work.

your quote:We are not going anywhere except in circles.
My Answer: I am not going in circles. I copy God. I place truth in the world. If you ask the same question, it has to come out the same. I am not giving you beliefs that can be bargained with. Like God, I will place truth in your life and it doesn't matter how many times.

God's Greatest moment is when that Light Bulb goes off over your head and you Understand. This is for everyone including myself.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
You see, I do not need to have expectations of anyone. Why not? I know in time everyone is going to get there for there has never ever been a time limit on learning. For this reason, regardless of anyone's bad choices, I can still love them Unconditionally rather than hate, judge, condemn and want payback. Does not this eliminate so many petty things???

 

[Trailblazer]

What you are really saying is that through investigation one can establish a Belief. On the other hand, a messenger who actually did have an interaction with God would have the proof. I do not believe they have simply through their actions. They do not reflect God.

No, I am not saying that. I am saying that in order to believe one must look at the proof the Messenger provided. That includes their Actions and their Person which reflects the attributes of God.

Beliefs are a dime a dozen. Are you taking efforts to Discover whether these beliefs are true or do you just accept.

To Discover of the beliefs are true, we need to do an investigation of everything that surrounds the Messenger and His Revelation and His Writings.

Is not all this God's creation? One's creation reflects One.

Everything in creation reflects God to the extent of its capacity but humans turn the mirror of their souls to their own lower material nature they reflect that lower nature.

By separating the two, you eliminate so many valuable questions. It also shows you value blame, thereby you blame mankind.

Man has free will so he is responsible for his actions. Responsibility is not blame.

This leads you to see negatively on people and this world. You choose to value those petty things rather than Discovering what actually exists.

I see what is in front of me, some of it is good and some of it is bad.

If God is perfect, how could God create such imperfection in mankind?

God did not create imperfection on mankind, everyone was born perfect. Then throughout the course of their lives, humans became imperfect when they turned to their lower material nature and chose self over others and self over God.

How can you say God has no hand in these things when God created it all? Do you always close your eyes to everything except what you want to see? These are actions of God. Why does God do it? Could there be something like Reasons??

Nobody knows God’s actions, some people just believe they do.

Do you understand why I say your vision is narrow and you are blind to so much.

I understand why you believe that but I do not agree. I see what is important to see but there is always more to Discover.

“Generally, it takes three encounters from seemingly different and independent sources to mold a human belief. If we hope to find the truth in a world full of contradicting ideas, we need to make use of all the resources at our disposal: science, history, experience, holy scripture — and our own power of discovery.”

https://bahaiteachings.org/finding-accepting-truth

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Still going on about the Flood when the evidence it's a myth is overwhelming. There is no layer of bones around the world, DNA proves there was no Flood of the entire world.

Were there floods in different areas for different reasons and at different times? YES but no biblical flood.

NOTED:
You didn’t answer my questions to explain the evidence.

It’s obvious you are just reiterating what you’ve been told, never examining the evidence for yourself.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Actual science:

http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Nr38Reasons.pdf California State University's list of 38 reasons why mainstream science knows there was no worldwide flood.

The entire argument against the Flood that you posted, is predicated on acceptance of Young-Earth Creationism, a false presumption.
So really, you and others are rejecting the Flood, based on wrong presuppositions....more than one...

1) YEC is inaccurate! And
2) the waters needed to ‘cover the mountains’ were no “5 miles high”, as falsely asserted by some.

I myself have explained that...many times.

I noticed you didn’t answer my questions. Why not? Because you can’t answer them!

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

He did.

Such as?

Predictions of wars isn't good enough unless they come with very accurate dates.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Some people will disregard the "evidence" based solely upon their own confirmation bias no matter how wrong they are.

Some times I will accept the evidence based on their confirmation bias. No matter how wrong they are.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

The entire argument against the Flood that you posted, is predicated on acceptance of Young-Earth Creationism, a false presumption.
So really, you and others are rejecting the Flood, based on wrong presuppositions....more than one...

1) YEC is inaccurate! And
2) the waters needed to ‘cover the mountains’ were no “5 miles high”, as falsely asserted by some.

I myself have explained that...many times.

I noticed your bones didn’t answer my questions. Why not? Because you can’t answer them!

So you now say the bible is wrong.

Give us your evidence of the flood and we can agree or disagree.

A one time and place layer of bones isn't good enough.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

So you now say the bible is wrong.

No, not at all! The interpretation of it by those who support YEC, is wrong. Yom in Hebrew, translated as "day" in English, simply is not limited to a literal 24 hrs. Neither is it in English .... Many times people will say, "Back in my Grandmother's day". Does that refer to a literal 24 hrs? No.
And the Hebrew "Yom" allows for the same understanding.

The Bible is accurate, but many interpretations of it are faulty.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

No, not at all! The interpretation of it by those who support YEC, is wrong. Yom in Hebrew, translated as "day" in English, simply is not limited to a literal 24 hrs. Neither is it in English .... Many times people will say, "Back in my Grandmother's day". Does that refer to a literal 24 hrs? No.
And the Hebrew "Yom" allows for the same understanding.

The Bible is accurate, but many interpretations of it are faulty.

So where is your evidence the Flood actually happened?

Because the previous evidence you gave was wrong. One layer of bones in one place only proves something happened there, not worldwide. Freshwater on icecaps is because it comes from the rain that fell.

DNA around the world in species and Man prove that those lines weren't obliterated 4,000 or even 10,000 years ago.

Either your god lied about the flood or Men made up the story.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

No, I am not saying that. I am saying that in order to believe one must look at the proof the Messenger provided. That includes their Actions and their Person which reflects the attributes of God.

how many religions are there - Google Search

With 10,000 religions or version of the same religion, a god would know the situation any messenger faces. So it's logical a god would give a true messenger undeniable proof he's the right one. Something we can't get wrong, can't be made up, interpreted badly. If god wants the messenger to be believed.

Saying beware of false messengers, or each one told a different story to fit the people doesn't convince anyone. Because with so many different versions 9,999 have to be wrong.

Of course, if god wanted to his messengers to be disbelieved, he's bang on course.

 

[Trailblazer]

Such as?

The Works of Bahá'u'lláh

Predictions of wars isn't good enough unless they come with very accurate dates.

Good enough for who? Good enough for what?
Now you set the requirements for Messengers of God.

 

[Trailblazer]

The Bible is accurate, but many interpretations of it are faulty.

You can say that again.

but many interpretations of it are faulty

 

[Trailblazer]

how many religions are there - Google Search

With 10,000 religions or version of the same religion, a god would know the situation any messenger faces.

Of course God knows, God is All-Knowing.

So it's logical a god would give a true messenger undeniable proof he's the right one. Something we can't get wrong, can't be made up, interpreted badly. If god wants the messenger to be believed.

There is proof but it can always be denied by humans because humans are FALLIBLE and they have FREE WILL.

Saying beware of false messengers, or each one told a different story to fit the people doesn't convince anyone. Because with so many different versions 9,999 have to be wrong.

God has no interest in convincing anyone, that's your gig.

Of course, if god wanted to his messengers to be disbelieved, he's bang on course.

For now, God is content with having the few people believe, those people who meet the criteria of a true seeker.
Tablet of the True Seeker

The day is approaching when everyone will believe in Baha'u'llah but there is no hurry because God carries no stopwatch.

“Warn and acquaint the people, O Servant, with the things We have sent down unto Thee, and let the fear of no one dismay Thee, and be Thou not of them that waver. The day is approaching when God will have exalted His Cause and magnified His testimony in the eyes of all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 248

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

The Works of Bahá'u'lláh

Good enough for who? Good enough for what?
Now you set the requirements for Messengers of God.

I made no claim of not knowing what a god would do, that's your line.
I only ask if a god exists and it wants us to follow it, what would be the best way to achieve that. You keep saying the way that isn't working is the only way.