Are the gods friends with each other?

[Politesse]

The gods are under no compulsion to love one another, it seems to me. But I do think the idea that they have favorites among humanity is a silly one; what would a God care whether you have one label or another? They will be watching over us long after the labels all fade away and all the languages change. If they are eternal, they have seen many religions rise and fall.

 

[trablano]

I think the gods have been very misunderstood. When you are as old as them, you don't seek struggle and strife anymore. You want to have peace with your offspring. It's more that they are sad about humanity being so torn and broken. Then there's also the issue that our religious landscape has been changed into a monotheistic one too much. Who really thinks of Odin now and Zeus and Hera and Frykka and the others? I venture to say that all gods are noble. They want to be our paragons in virtue, why else would they demand virtue from us?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

When you are as old as them, you don't seek struggle and strife anymore.

All of life - of existence - is struggle and strife. This is what I can't stand about love and light - not everything can be rainbows and gumdrops.

Who really thinks of Odin now and Zeus and Hera and Frykka and the others?

Frigga. And there are literally thousands of people who actively worship those gods.

I venture to say that all gods are noble.

Even Surtr? What about Pan? Dionysus? Loki? Even Odin has schemed, deceived, and used.

why else would they demand virtue from us?

Who says they demand anything of us?

 

[trablano]

Well I don't rest on the ancient writings. I don't believe there was Surtr or the Titans or the Great Flood. That's why I think the Gods were misunderstood. Instead I think the gods were noble beings always trying to help us, and not everyone knows all that much about them. The ancient writings were meant as legends, and not to be taken literally. It's the same as with the bible. Zeus, for example, never raped someone and didn't fasten Prometheus to the rock. That were stories the ancients wanted to hear, but not the truth. In our new times we should understand these things and strive for spiritual interpretations of the old texts, a multifaceted reading that brings out the brotherhood of the gods and their good intentions.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Well I don't rest on the ancient writings. I don't believe there was Surtr or the Titans or the Great Flood.

So you're literally ignoring the darker side of various theologies? Not too smart, or honest.

 

[trablano]

That's been my education in Christ who I think tried to impress on us the goodness of the Gods. They do not seek wars and terror. There are dark theologies, saw them often in christianity. But the gods are love and work against these dark theologies, and those who really know a God intimately will always agree that they are good. Perhaps you rely too much on magic. If you let a God act in your interest, this is better than quickly thinking you can master magic and draw from a God in this way.

 

[LuisDantas]

What do you think?

God are exactly as good as the sincerity of purpose that people attach to them. No more and no less.

 

[trablano]

Hitler didn't have idols. Was he therefor a good man who needn't fear God's anger? Anne Frank studied greek myths and gods. Was she therefor a bad girl who had to fear hell?

 

[Thief]

I'm coming from a christian background but for some years now I'm not only going to Jesus with prayers but also to Odin and Zeus, sometimes Krishna, sometimes Allah. I find that all of these deities are good to me and I revere them. But I have issues with the assorted myths.

Yahweh is said to have caused wars and bloodshed, Odin is said to use magic and not divine powers, Zeus is said to have raped women and Krishna and Allah also have writings ascribed to them which do not portray them as benevolent.

That's why I think the ancient writings need to be reexamined and it remains to be seen whether we can or even should rely on them, and whether we maybe need new holy writings.

I believe that the ancients did not themselves see the books as so holy. They relied more on what was going around, what people experienced with God and what they said in temples or churches or mosques. It could be said that the so-called holy books are the doom of religion, except when we're free to take the good from these writings but not the bad. In the bible there are many good portions, such as "The Lord is friendly and his goodness endures forever". But there are also many bad portions, such as "The godless need be annihilated" and such.

Isn't it easy to see that the ancients lived another life and asked different things from God? Often the gods fueled the people's nationalism. My God was supposed to be stronger and more cruel than your God, so you would not attack me with the same fierceness my God was able to bestow on our warriors. I think that's sometimes been the essence of ancient thinking.

But in reality, if you go to the Gods for real and pray to them and ask them about themselves, they are all kind and benevolent beings who have the same wishes and wills like gentle humans like Gandhi or Bonhoeffer or Ossietzky or Elvis. I'm not sure why christians still take the bible for infalllible, such a teachings is crazy because we shouldn't undo the progress we have already made.

What do you think?

I believe in Hierarchy
and hopefully the Almighty is in charge

otherwise it would need be all Spirit on good terms with all Spirit
any objection could lead to chaos

hmmmmmmm........

 

[LuisDantas]

Hitler didn't have idols.

What do you call an idol exactly? There is plenty of evidence that Hitler developed an unhealthy mythology around him. Actually, he presented himself as an idol himself.

Was he therefor a good man who needn't fear God's anger?

IMO, no one should worry about God's anger. Not even Hitler, who is on record claiming to believe to have been spared in WW 1 to serve "a higher purpose".

Anne Frank studied greek myths and gods. Was she therefor a bad girl who had to fear hell?

Hardly.

 

[1137]

Is the god of the Islamic State kind and loving?

 

[Quintessence]

Yahweh is said to have caused wars and bloodshed, Odin is said to use magic and not divine powers, Zeus is said to have raped women and Krishna and Allah also have writings ascribed to them which do not portray them as benevolent.

Just want to point out that as is the case with all mythos, it is important to get past a simplistic literalistic interpretation of the tales and go deeper than that. In particular, the sex allegories of Zeus is said to be symbolic of the ancient Greek empire subjugating various local gods into the fold of their culture. Basically, if our god has sex with your god, they're part of the family now.

I believe that the ancients did not themselves see the books as so holy.

Quite likely, especially if we're talking anything that isn't Abrahamic. Setting a text on a pedestal as the literal word of their deity is sort of their kind of thing, not that of various Paganisms. Though I suppose this hinges on what precisely you mean by "holy" in this context?

Isn't it easy to see that the ancients lived another life and asked different things from God? Often the gods fueled the people's nationalism. My God was supposed to be stronger and more cruel than your God, so you would not attack me with the same fierceness my God was able to bestow on our warriors. I think that's sometimes been the essence of ancient thinking.

As far as I'm aware, nationalism is a modern (19th century) construct. I'm not sure it makes sense to apply it to the ancient world. I'm quite skeptical that our ancestors approached the gods as a tool for their petty one-upmanship contests.

But in reality, if you go to the Gods for real and pray to them and ask them about themselves, they are all kind and benevolent beings who have the same wishes and wills like gentle humans like Gandhi or Bonhoeffer or Ossietzky or Elvis.

That has not even remotely been my experience with the gods.

 

[trablano]

You found gods to be oppressive? That is not my experience with them. They are kind and cheerful usually.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

That's been my education in Christ who I think tried to impress on us the goodness of the Gods.

Some of the Gods that you've mentioned - Odin - are nothing like your christ, and I would dare say you will learn nothing of them through his example or lesson.

They do not seek wars and terror.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Yet terror is caused by the Gods nonetheless.

But the gods are love and work against these dark theologies

Theology means in relation to gods, so if there are "dark theologies" there are literally dark gods, meaning that not all gods are "love and light."

those who really know a God intimately will always agree that they are good.

No, those who worship an idea will always say so.

Perhaps you rely too much on magic.

Actually, I hardly rely on it at all. This is irrelevant to the nature of the Gods, though.

 

[trablano]

Well that's just what you have to learn, friend. Odin has incredible honor and didn't support the Nazis, the evil kinds of magicians and so on. Even Loki is a friendly god if you can handle his slightly darker appearance. Everyone that has mind, intelligence and spirit will evolve into a good person. And the gods watch over that development. Love is the strongest power in the universe, and Odin knows that too. The gods can also be humble, that does not take away from them and their pride. They have always known love. Just this morning I prayed to Odin a lot and he gave me thick peace. And consider his son Baldur - it's hard to find someone more gentle in Europe.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Well that's just what you have to learn, friend.

No. The problem here is that you're not actually worshiping Odin. You've taken a Christian understanding of him, ignored everything in the lore and myths except what is most agreeable to you (and then dismissed lore and myth as "just stories"), and are thus trying to pretend that the weave of the universe is all good things. Yet wherefore comes evil, then?

Odin has incredible honor

No he doesn't. One of his names is Bölverkr - "baleful-worker". It literally is used when he creates strife. Another is Glapsviðr - "swift to deceive". There are tales of him using a woman, seducing her to get at her father's mead. Before that, he slew her father's servants with a clever bit of deception. He also slew Thjazi, Skadi's father. He also had numerous relations with various Gods and Jotnar, who were not his lady wife, Frigga. He also betrayed Fenrir out of fear, locking the wolf beneath the world and making an enemy of him.

I am curious just what "incredible honor" you think Odin possesses?

Everyone that has mind, intelligence and spirit will evolve into a good person.

Unless they use those skills to deceive others and exploit them.

Love is the strongest power in the universe,

Love blinds as much as it liberates; of which Odin definitely knew, and told us so in the Hávamál.

And consider his son Baldur

You do know that not much is known of the Summer-God Baldr at all, and most just tend to make him into a "viking christ" type god, which is horribly dishonest to both his myths and the culture of the Norse?

 

[Quintessence]

You found gods to be oppressive? That is not my experience with them. They are kind and cheerful usually.

I suppose it's possible you have somehow never experienced the sweltering and oppressive weather that is typical of summers in my area. But yeah, I would absolutely say my experience of summertime weather spirits/gods is oppressive to the point of being unbearable on the most severe of days. I certainly would not describe the stiflingly hot and humid summer days we have as "kind" and "cheerful."

Regardless, as far as I'm concerned, calling the gods "oppressive" or "kind" or "good" or "evil" is reflective of human responses to the gods, not their inherent nature (with a few exceptions).

 

[Jainarayan]

You mean a sage can curse a god? No way, man, the gods are holy and cannot be cursed. They curse nobody and only bless.

Not so. Krishna was cursed by Gāndhārī because he did not prevent the death of her sons. She cursed him to see the end of his own family. And he willingly and without malice accepted the curse. The sage Bhrigu (I think it was Bhrigu... I need another Hindu here) kicked Lord Vishnu on his chest, where Lakshmi resides, thereby kicking Mother. Vishnu was forgiving, Lakshmi... mmm, not so much. She took her anger out on Vishnu for accepting the insult. Shiva cursed Brahma that no one would worship him ever again, for his lie. Look up the story of Lingodbhava. Lingodbhava - Wikipedia

As for Krishna doing some not-so-savory things, such as lopping off Shishupala's head with the sudarshana chakra? Krishna gave Shishupala 100 chances to stop insulting him. Krishna told Shishupala that on the 101st insult he would kill Shishupala. Well, Shishupala went there, and he didn't come back. During the Kurukshetra War, Krishna tried over and over to broker peace, but at the last, he did indeed resort to trickery. Two wrongs don't make a right? Not necessarily the lesson here. Krishna's mission on Earth was to restore order and dharma. He did it by using the weaknesses of the warring parties as their own downfalls. In other words, they shot themselves in the foot. They had every chance to come to peaceful terms.

 

[Jainarayan]

"You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, .."

I don't have any children. I wonder how that will play out.

 

[Thief]

Well that's just what you have to learn, friend. Odin has incredible honor and didn't support the Nazis, the evil kinds of magicians and so on. Even Loki is a friendly god if you can handle his slightly darker appearance. Everyone that has mind, intelligence and spirit will evolve into a good person. And the gods watch over that development. Love is the strongest power in the universe, and Odin knows that too. The gods can also be humble, that does not take away from them and their pride. They have always known love. Just this morning I prayed to Odin a lot and he gave me thick peace. And consider his son Baldur - it's hard to find someone more gentle in Europe.

in the scheme of hierarchy.....
are there angels?