Are The Original Manuscripts of New Testament Lost?

[Sara Thinks]

Christian Apologist accept that we don't have the original manuscript of New Testament. Therefore the question is can Reconstruct Lost Original Manuscripts of Bible New Testament ?
The Answer is NO!!

 

[Hawkins]

A highly knowledgeable professor, Bart Erhman, who studied under Bruce Metzger, gives the evidences!

WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THIS?

The question is rather what human documents written 2000 years ago (and over 100 pages) you still have the original manuscript.

It is a common human failure to keep the original documents (i.e., those written 2000 years ago). God makes perfection out of the imperfection of men by keeping 2 independent sources of His Bible, namely, the KJV and NIV versions of the Bible. Humans can thus reconcile to tell that what we are reading today remains the same as humans read some 2000 years ago.

Humans virtually keep nothing original regarding to documents (over 100 pages) written 2000 years ago. That's actually why God has to choose a religion as a vessel for the conveying of His message/theology of salvation. In the situation such as the AD 70 Jerusalem siege, no Jews would like to keep any history books but each and every Jew would like to keep at least one copy of the OT Holy Bible. Religion has a much better survivability than history books in terms of conveying a theology concerning the dead or alive of humans.

 

[RESOLUTION]

Interesting post. I'll be very keen to hear what the Christians have to say.

How authentic is the Quran?

How authentic were Mahomet and Joseph Smith?

Didn't it strike you strange an Angel instead of the Holy Spirit gave them their messages?
Gold bars and all Moses Got was Stone but written by God.

Neither Mahomet or Joseph Smith born of the line of Issac, do you not find that strange?

It does not take a genius to know why the doctrines are not from God.

 

[roger1440]

The question is rather what human documents written 2000 years ago (and over 100 pages) you still have the original manuscript.

It is a common human failure to keep the original documents (i.e., those written 2000 years ago). God makes perfection out of the imperfection of men by keeping 2 independent sources of His Bible, namely, the KJV and NIV versions of the Bible. Humans can thus reconcile to tell that what we are reading today remains the same as humans read some 2000 years ago.

Humans virtually keep nothing original regarding to documents (over 100 pages) written 2000 years ago. That's actually why God has to choose a religion as a vessel for the conveying of His message/theology of salvation. In the situation such as the AD 70 Jerusalem siege, no Jews would like to keep any history books but each and every Jew would like to keep at least one copy of the OT Holy Bible. Religion has a much better survivability than history books in terms of conveying a theology concerning the dead or alive of humans.

Lucky me. God has a preference for English. The only language I know. I been studying the Bible on and off for nearly 40 years. This is the very first time I have ever heard this. The Lord works in mysterious ways.

 

[arthra]

A highly knowledgeable professor, Bart Erhman, who studied under Bruce Metzger, gives the evidences!

WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THIS?

Sara,

Thanks for sharing the video... I've enjoyed reading Bart Erhman's books. I'm not a Christian but over time I've enjoyed exploring this topic... One of my earlier interests was discovering the works of George Lamsa. George Lamsa was one of the few scholars whose native language was Aramaic. I was very impressed with his knowledge of Aramaic idioms in understanding the Gospels... and recommend his approach.. I'd recommend:

Gospel Light: An Indispensable Guide to the Teachings of Jesus and the Customs of His Time Paperback

by George M. Lamsa (Author)

Gospel Light: An Indispensable Guide to the Teachings of Jesus and the Customs of His Time: George M. Lamsa: 9780060649289: Amazon.com: Books

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It would take an awful lot to verify this hypothetical find as an original, certainly.

As I said before, you'd study it the same way you would any historical document - very carefully.

Nice try.

In fact, what you said before in response to the question: "And how, pray tell, would one authenticate a particular document as 'original'?" was:

...Same way we authenticate anything else as being an original. It's more difficult when working with historical documents, but it's still possible and it happens all the time.

And you've yet to offer the slightest hint as to how you might attempt such a task. In fact, you haven't a clue,and you're either unaware of this fact or too embarrassed to admit it.

Given the hypothetical gMk posited in post #11, we might be able to suggest that it is a possible vorlage of some later manuscript or, conversely, we might be in a position to exclude it as a possible vorlage. What we cannot do is validate it as the original. Why, because in either case both could be derivative. This is a problem that bedevils Hebrew Bible study, which is why commentaries such as NICOT expend a good deal of print documenting variants without suggest which is most representative of some imagined original.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Wouldn't it be more constructive for Muslims to read and understand the gospels just as the Muslims would like Christians to read and understand the Quran. What we need is better dialogue and understanding between faiths, not more propaganda that undermines the other?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Quran is 100% authentic and no man could ever altered it!
The Quran we have till now 2017 is still the original Quran.
Watch the video and as it gives the evidence.

It is only when the words are penned by the Prophet and independently verified that you can claim 100% authenticity. Otherwise it is 'hearsay'. This video simply strengthens the case for the Christians who relied on memory too, until they had their first Gospels.

It simply does not make any sense to argue the spoken word passed down by oral traditions is more authentic than what is written.

I believe in both the Gospels and the Quran but am an adherent of neither religion.

 

[Dawnofhope]

How authentic were Mahomet and Joseph Smith?

Didn't it strike you strange an Angel instead of the Holy Spirit gave them their messages?
Gold bars and all Moses Got was Stone but written by God.

Neither Mahomet or Joseph Smith born of the line of Issac, do you not find that strange?

It does not take a genius to know why the doctrines are not from God.

The story of Joseph Smith has not convinced me. The stories of Moses, Christ, and Muhammad are much more compelling. From each a Revelation that is unique, recorded for all to examine, stood the test of time, and have lead to great civilisations.

 

[psychoslice]

I don't know about lost but they have been altered over and over for many years, so who knows what the originals looked like.

 

[roger1440]

The story of Joseph Smith has not convinced me. The stories of Moses, Christ, and Muhammad are much more compelling. From each a Revelation that is unique, recorded for all to examine, stood the test of time, and have lead to great civilisations.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Then I was considering the escape velocity required for a human body to escape the earths atmosphere....over 25,000 miles per hour.

The escape velocity from Earth is about 11.186 km/s (6.951 mi/s; 40,270 km/h; 25,020 mph) at the surface

Escape velocity - Wikipedia

 

[idav]

A highly knowledgeable professor, Bart Erhman, who studied under Bruce Metzger, gives the evidences!

WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THIS?

It appears we know the book of John existed from the scrap presented, and that it had a great number of chapters. We have a whole book not too long after that. They don't say what they originally said but it appears that people painstakingly preserved these stories, since the thousands of copies are 99% accurate with each other which does not give very good evidence of his claim of numerous mistakes made over time.

 

[shmogie]

A highly knowledgeable professor, Bart Erhman, who studied under Bruce Metzger, gives the evidences!

WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THIS?

Nothing new, Informed Christians have known of the history of the manuscripts for centuries. Of course, like always, these professors in the clip provided leave much out. First, the various scraps of the NT extant from the first two centuries of Christendom provide a variety of verses that correspond almost exactly to the the translations we have today. Some have estimated that these scraps comprise almost 40% of the NT, so if there are errors, as proposed, then they must be in the other 60%. Scribes come off as pretty slipshod in these presentations. Actually they were a respected professional class who were extremely careful about errors. Second, the totally discount the writers of the immediate post Apostolic church leaders, those who came right after the Apostles, they are sometimes called The Church Fathers. Many of their letters exist and where scripture is quoted, it is consistent with today's translations. The theological principles they discuss are also totally consistent with what is found in the NT of today. As to the koran, I have no doubt it is as it was written. It is the antithesis of the Bible, mohammad obviously being familiar with the the OT and NT, stole from both and added his particular viciousness and perversion. He hand his "religion" were predicted in the NT 600 years before he was born,.

 

[Limo]

As to the koran, I have no doubt it is as it was written.

Good

It is the antithesis of the Bible, mohammad obviously being familiar with the the OT and NT, stole from both and added his particular viciousness and perversion. He hand his "religion" were predicted in the NT 600 years before he was born,.

How do you know if Prophet is familiar with OT and NT ?
Why he has to create conflict with both Judaism and Christianity ? He should have tried to comply with both or at least one of them,

 

[shmogie]

How do you know if Prophet is familiar with OT and NT ?
Why he has to create conflict with both Judaism and Christianity ? He should have tried to comply with both or at least one of them,

He copied from the OT, e.g. food restrictions, usurping Abraham etc, he debases Christ and makes himself equal to him. The knowledge of Christ and all the rest had existed for centuries in the OT, NT. He had significant contact with both Christians and Jews. The people he primarily wanted to conquer were Christians, how better to make his religion a little more palatable to them than include Christ in it ? No, he had no interest in complying with Judaism or Christianity. Those faiths put restrictions on what he was interested in, violent conquest, misogyny, various sexual perversions, and he would have to play by the rules he didn't like, so he made up his own, putting himself as the mouthpiece for his god, the ultimate authority of right and wrong.

 

[Limo]

He copied from the OT, e.g. food restrictions, usurping Abraham etc, he debases Christ and makes himself equal to him. The knowledge of Christ and all the rest had existed for centuries in the OT, NT. He had significant contact with both Christians and Jews. The people he primarily wanted to conquer were Christians, how better to make his religion a little more palatable to them than include Christ in it ? No, he had no interest in complying with Judaism or Christianity. Those faiths put restrictions on what he was interested in, violent conquest, misogyny, various sexual perversions, and he would have to play by the rules he didn't like, so he made up his own, putting himself as the mouthpiece for his god, the ultimate authority of right and wrong.

Unfortunately, your information about prophet Mohammed saws and Islam is a wrong. Following are a few corrections:

• Prophet was illeterate, he never been breached or educated Judaism or Christianity
• He grown up in Mecca where only 1 or 2 Christians were there.
• The first time he met a Jew when he moved to Madina after he became a prophet
• Food restrictions in Islam is different from that in Judaism
• Previous prophets stories is not identical. A complete detailed stories about israiliets that even don't exist in OT

Copying from OT or NT is just allegations with neither eveidanc nor logic

What you're saying is that Prophet was very very smart youth who planned to build a big empire, then he challenged Judaic and Christian belief. It doesn't make any sense because of :

• He died in a very humble house like everyone. Left no money at all
• He doesn't have to justify conquest of Christian or Jewish lands. Actually Jews has no single kingdom at that time
• If it's all about building an empire, many people should do like him and succeed, like Carl Marcos for example or Genghis Khan or Napoleon or Hitler

So this allegations about conquest has no support
BTW the copying and parallelism is well proofed between NT and OT.

 

[Repox]

A new thread would give much more answers, this would kinda me hijacking the thread.
But still to answer - Qur'an is very authentic and the only "change" was that it's order is from longest chapters to the shortest and not in the order as the chapters were revealed.

All the best

Qur'an is not authentic. It plagiarizes the Bible.

 

[Repox]

If Allah is God, why did he need Jewish holy books? Wouldn't he declare the OT Lord to be a pagan god? Then after taking Jewish verses, the Qur'an commands Muslims to kill Jews. I am looking for verses to support the claim that Islam is a peaceful religion. One can find verses instructing Muslims to kill infidels (Christians and Jews). The big problem is most people haven't read the Qur'an.

 

[Raahim]

If Allah is God, why did he need Jewish holy books? Wouldn't he declare the OT Lord to be a pagan god? Then after taking Jewish verses, the Qur'an commands Muslims to kill Jews. I am looking for verses to support the claim that Islam is a peaceful religion. One can find verses instructing Muslims to kill infidels (Christians and Jews). The big problem is most people haven't read the Qur'an.

Your knowledge of Islam is extremely poor. If you knew basics of Islam you'd know that it's the same God who gave Jews the Torah so why would He say for Himself that He's a pagan god? Qur'an does not command to kills Jews and it's filled with peaceful verses you just don't want to read them. And if you ask me OT is pretty brutal until rabbis or other well educated Jews don't explain what's behind the verse and wider picture.