Are the religious people's beliefs of the soul - wrong?

[Terrywoodenpic]

Some sects of Hinduism believe that the soul (soul is used loosely, because it's really a different concept in Hinduism) is to God what a ray of sunshine is to the sun, or what a wave is to the ocean. The ray of sunshine or wave emanates from the sun or the ocean. However, the sunshine or wave doesn't separate from the sun or the ocean the way the soul separates from God for experiences "on Earth". This is the nature of creation. It's really inconceivable to the human mind.

No soul is "good" or "bad", nor is it punished or rewarded in the Abrahamic sense. By the deeds the soul performs it can realize itself, know that it is part of God, not the material world and will eventually return to God (moksha, liberation from the cycle of birth and re-birth), or it will be re-born hundreds, millions, billions of times or for all eternity until it "gets it right".

I suspect that is very near the truth....even for Christian Soul. Though we do not Major on rebirth...Few Christians would rule out the possibility.
I would agree that the soul emanates from God and remains God. though as God is through out time and space, a soul can never separate from God entirely.

 

[Trimijopulos]

i think you are confusing soul with spirit...... all living things have souls, only humans have spirit.

One may then ask: what happens to the soul of the grass when it dries up?

“Spirit” is a reasonable, natural concept and it is found in many different cultures while “soul” is an irrational concept and it is also found in many different cultures but accompanied with the equally irrational concepts of afterlife and immortality because it is an unnatural concept that originated into the Egyptian priesthood and via the ancient Greek philosophers it spread to the rest of the world.

Do not mix up Jewish belief with Christian Beliefs. Ezekiel had no concept of Christianity, and had a Jewish concept of God and the afterlife..

That is correct! Ezekiel follows the original Egyptian model not the Greek edition of it. “The soul that sinned dies!” Actually it is killed by the judging gods.

The answer to the debate question is definitely “yes” because the idea of the soul is nobody’s concept. It is the product of the misinterpretation of the Egyptian (hieroglyphic) word “ba.”

The ancient Egyptians, who are supposed to have believed in the existence of soul, have no word for “soul”!
Modern Egyptologists had been translating the term “ba” as “soul” for two centuries and now they found out that the term does not mean “soul” in the older texts and thus they stopped translating it. They have no substitute meaning or they do not want to use it and let the word appear in their translations as “ba”.
The same happens with the term “akh” which they used to translate as “spirit”; it now also appears as “akh”.
An example of an older and a recent translation of a passage from the Pyramid Texts.

Utterance 436 §789

Translated by Faulkner: “This mighty one has been made a spirit for the benefit of(?) his soul.

Translated by Allen: “this controlling power has been akhified for his ba.

Neither the older nor the recent translation makes sense!
How is that possible when the hieroglyphic script has been deciphered centuries ago?

One cannot but wonder whether the concepts of soul, afterlife and immortality are enjoying the protection of the Academia.

 

[Me Myself]

Soul trascends sin.

Soul is our divinity and it is incorruptible.

 

[Quiddity]

Both Christianity and Islam teach how a soul can be judged after death, and either go to afterlife of eternal peace or torment.

If the soul comes ultimately from God, then how could a soul be tainted by one's own belief, or emotion, behaviour or decision, or one's own action?

Shouldn't a soul be incorruptible?

If the soul belonged to God, then how could a soul be judged and (if a person is bad in his lifetime) go to hell?

The belief of Christians and Muslims that a soul could be affected by person's action seemed contradictory of what a soul is.

Well, I'm not sure where the RC's beliefs fit into this. The body and soul are intended to be coded to each other and are considered "incomplete" otherwise. The soul is the form of the body. That means that after the final judgement we will be reunited with our bodies in heaven.

Since God is the only thing without form and is a pure actualizing being, whatever we are is but a potentiality of the One. It's vague, I know but it's the only way I could explain it.

 

[jamesmorrow]

@ dtango. I believe that the general view is that the soul of all living beings ceases to exist upon death.

 

[work in progress]

How can physical reactions in your brain cause the psychological or spiritual YOU to get high? That simple fact, which was noticed long ago by many ancient Greek philosophers, indicates that we cannot separate mind from physical processes.

How would a disembodied soul see or hear, or have a capacity for memory recall? All manifestations of claims made by believers in out-of-body experiences, that they could do all of these things while being free of the body. It's more likely that such reports which are used to support the belief in a soul, are merely delusions caused by conflicting sensory information.

 

[Jainarayan]

How would a disembodied soul see or hear, or have a capacity for memory recall?

That ascribes anthropomorphic properties to a non-anthropomorphic entity. For most of us who are embodied souls, we cannot remember anything before we were born, if you believe in re-birth.

Just some thoughts:

"As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A sober person is not bewildered by such a change." Bhagavad Gita 2.13

"That which pervades the entire body you should know to be indestructible. No one is able to destroy that imperishable soul." 2.17

"For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." 2.20

"As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, the soul similarly accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones. The soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind. This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, present everywhere, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same." 2.22-24

 

[james2ko]

The JW's say the Soul is the (spirit + body.)Others believe that the Soul is independant of us, and is God's life spark with in is. Still others see the Soul as our innermost self, including our Ego and the spirit as the connection to God.

1. I appreciate the info. But I'm only interested in what God says in His Word.

I see our Soul as of God, that gives us life and through which he can experience our world. The only spirit involved is the Holy spirit... this is not part of us at all, but is sent from God to comfort and guide us when we call upon him.

Rom 8:16 The Spirit (Holy Spirit) Himself bears witness with our spirit (human spirit) that we are children of God,​

2. The Holy Spirit is not the only spirit at work within us:

We could equally conjecture that God, who is not limited by time or space, connects with all life in the universe directly. and that it is this contact that we call Soul.

What ever soul may be, it is in God's control, not ours, and must be incorruptible. God's compassion is universal, and whatever we might do/believe or may have done in life will be forgiven when we repent. and our soul will be restored to God.

3. According to Mat 10:28, it can be destroyed.

There will not be a physical resurrection, that is no more than wishful thinking by those that thought a continuation of the Ego was necessarily in physical form. It might not continue separate from God at all.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.​

4. John noticed the difference in size (big and small) of those standing before Christ. They were definitely physical. You also have the rich man in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man who felt the heat of the flames which a spirit alone would not. It amazes me how many Christians feel a physical resurrection is so far fetched, when God performed them regularly throughout scripture.

 

[fishy]

4. John noticed the difference in size (big and small) of those standing before Christ. They were definitely physical. You also have the rich man in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man who felt the heat of the flames which a spirit alone would not. It amazes me how many Christians feel a physical resurrection is so far fetched, when God performed them regularly throughout scripture.

It's a little off topic maybe, but you quote what john saw. What weapons did he see being used during Armageddon?
"when God performed them regularly throughout scripture." allegedly.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

1. I appreciate the info. But I'm only interested in what God says in His Word.

Rom 8:16 The Spirit (Holy Spirit) Himself bears witness with our spirit (human spirit) that we are children of God,
​

2. The Holy Spirit is not the only spirit at work within us:





3. According to Mat 10:28, it can be destroyed.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
​

4. John noticed the difference in size (big and small) of those standing before Christ. They were definitely physical. You also have the rich man in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man who felt the heat of the flames which a spirit alone would not. It amazes me how many Christians feel a physical resurrection is so far fetched, when God performed them regularly throughout scripture.

It is strange that Christians can have such opposed understandings. There is nothing that you have written that I find in the least convincing.
It takes a very fertile mind in the realms of fantasy, to believe any thing in Revelation.
Yet some base their beliefs on them.

 

[rusra02]

Genesis is not a very reliable guide to anything except perhaps Jewish mythology.

All Life throughout the universe have souls.
The Holy spirit ( holy Ghost) is named as part of the Trinity. It is not part of us at all.

If it helps you, I am happy to use "Soul and Spirit" interchangeably.
Though I prefer not to, as spirit can be confused with the Holy Spirit and often is.

Jesus didn't believe that Genesis is Jewish mythology. His teachings clearly reflect his conviction that the book of Genesis is true history. (Matthew 19:4-6, Luke 17:26,27)
I agree the Holy Spirit is not part of us. However, neither the word "Trinity" nor the idea of three persons in one God can be found in the Scriptures. The teachings of hellfire, trinity, and an immortal soul actually come from pagan religions, and these false teachings were adopted after the death of the apostles, when apostasy was developing among those who professed to follow Christ. (2 Thessalonians 2:3-5,7,8)

 

[rusra02]

Soul trascends sin.

Soul is our divinity and it is incorruptible.

That's an interesting concept, but the Holy Scriptures don't teach that the soul is divine nor inherently incorrupible.

 

[james2ko]

It's a little off topic maybe, but you quote what john saw. What weapons did he see being used during Armageddon?
"when God performed them regularly throughout scripture." allegedly.

John did the best he could trying to describe modern day weapons with first century knowledge.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

Both Christianity and Islam teach how a soul can be judged after death, and either go to afterlife of eternal peace or torment.

If the soul comes ultimately from God, then how could a soul be tainted by one's own belief, or emotion, behaviour or decision, or one's own action?

Shouldn't a soul be incorruptible?

If the soul belonged to God, then how could a soul be judged and (if a person is bad in his lifetime) go to hell?

The belief of Christians and Muslims that a soul could be affected by person's action seemed contradictory of what a soul is.

No I definitely don't believe there is any form of justice system after we die. No one knows for sure what happens to the soul after death, which is why many religions just guessed all this nonsense to control us and scare us into making some contribution to that religion.

 

[james2ko]

There is nothing that you have written that I find in the least convincing.

The passages in Romans and Matthews are pretty straightforward, unless there are preconceived ideas sprinkled with pride that prevents one from understanding their simple meaning.

It takes a very fertile mind in the realms of fantasy, to believe any thing in Revelation. Yet some base their beliefs on them.

I'm not implying God has revealed some secret knowledge to only me but I can say He has blessed some of us with the building blocks to be able to decipher its main tenets.

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

Rev 22:7 "Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book."​

Have to be able to understand the words in the book before being able to keep them, right?

It is strange that Christians can have such opposed understandings.

That's because many have been indoctrinated with false beliefs for millennia. So when the simple truth is pointed out to them, they completely discount it as fantasy.

 

[fishy]

John did the best he could trying to describe modern day weapons with first century knowledge.

OK so what weapons did he describe?

 

[james2ko]

OK so what weapons did he describe?

Not the topic of discussion.

 

[gnostic]

I'm not implying God has revealed some secret knowledge to only me but I can say He has blessed some of us with the building blocks to be able to decipher its main tenets.

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

Rev 22:7 "Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book."​

Have to be able to understand the words in the book before being able to keep them, right?

You're getting a little sidetracked with this whole Revelation. But let me play advocate with your reasoning.

You say that you've been "blessed" to decipher the main tenets of Revelation.

I'd like to remind you countless Christians have also believed that they had deciphered John's insane gibberish as far back as 2nd century CE. Everyone single one of them got it wrong.

Every time there was a calamity, some Christians will bellow out the END IS NIGH! They will quote this or that, from Revelation, calling people to convert or repent.

1. It happened when the Roman army left Britain in 406 CE.
2. It happened when Attila the Hun arrived with his horde and invaded the Roman empires.
3. Christians thought the world have come to an end, when Rome was sacked in 476 CE.
4. It happened when the Vikings raided the coasts throughout Europe, doomsayers going absolute bonkers about the end of the world. It happened in William's Norman invasion of England.
5. The devastating Black Death wiped out millions across Europe, and they all though the world had come to end.
6. The Hundred Years' War between England and France.

And in the more time:


Napoleon, and then World War I, and then II.

And there were a lot nuts, thinking the world would end because of the planetary alignments of the last 20 years ago. Each time, they go hysterical.


Some more idiots will quote the bible for the coming Winter's solstice in 2012 (Dec 21 or 22), from the supposed Mayan Armageddon.


There have been countless predictions using the Revelation, and none of these came to fruition.


So what make you think that you are better than those others to know or predict better than they have about the so-called wars?

 

[fishy]

Not the topic of discussion.

hahahahahahahahaha

 

[james2ko]

You're getting a little sidetracked with this whole Revelation. But let me play advocate with your reasoning.

You say that you've been "blessed" to decipher the main tenets of Revelation.

I'd like to remind you countless Christians have also believed that they had deciphered John's insane gibberish as far back as 2nd century CE. Everyone single one of them got it wrong.

Every time there was a calamity, some Christians will bellow out the END IS NIGH! They will quote this or that, from Revelation, calling people to convert or repent.

1. It happened when the Roman army left Britain in 406 CE.
2. It happened when Attila the Hun arrived with his horde and invaded the Roman empires.
3. Christians thought the world have come to an end, when Rome was sacked in 476 CE.
4. It happened when the Vikings raided the coasts throughout Europe, doomsayers going absolute bonkers about the end of the world. It happened in William's Norman invasion of England.
5. The devastating Black Death wiped out millions across Europe, and they all though the world had come to end.
6. The Hundred Years' War between England and France.

And in the more time:


Napoleon, and then World War I, and then II.

And there were a lot nuts, thinking the world would end because of the planetary alignments of the last 20 years ago. Each time, they go hysterical.


Some more idiots will quote the bible for the coming Winter's solstice in 2012 (Dec 21 or 22), from the supposed Mayan Armageddon.


There have been countless predictions using the Revelation, and none of these came to fruition.


So what make you think that you are better than those others to know or predict better than they have about the so-called wars?

Boy are we jumping to conclusions. Did I miss something? I don't remember making any "end of the world" predictions