Are the religious people's beliefs of the soul - wrong?

[gnostic]

You're confusing prediction with interpretation. A prediction is a forecast or declaration of something that has yet to occur. An interpretation is an expression of a person's conception on a subject. I'm merely "interpreting" John's vision.

Fine, you're interpreting a vision.

But you're interpreting the vision as if they have some "predicting" values, just as every other doomsayers have interpret the verses from Revelation.

 

[gnostic]

I don't believe the God I read about in the bible would allow us to remain at odds with each other forever. God will one day lift the current veil of deception (Isa 25:7). Everyone, from the staunchiest Atheist to the most sincere but deceived Christian, will one day have the knowledge of the one true God. Each will get a fair opportunity to choose their own fate. Either (a) Eternal life or (b) eternal death (cease to exist for all eternity). And that is the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God.

This sounds great and wonderful and all, but I don't see how this could happen. For true knowledge to be achieved, it could only happen through experiences.

I would have to see God, hear him, touch him, and most important of all, know him. That's what I mean by "experiences". The whole truth can only be happen if God was to truly manifest himself before me or anyone else. And the whole truth can only be achieved if

This can't happen if God want to be hidden, and only known through a spokesperson or two, like a prophet or messiah, or from writings, like scriptures. So far we have only hearsay, from writings of people long dead, who supposedly know God's divine will. That's clearly not enough. Because each person can read a scripture and interpret the text differently from another person.

People have read the Tanakh, Bible and Qur'an, and people have die over it...and for what?

For God? For the message? For the "promised" afterlife? For a religion?

To me - these religions, this deity and the promise of afterlife - are nothing more than an ancient great CON...and supposedly the only way to meet God is to die for it. Absolutely no guarantee that your faith in God is worth it.

And this topic is about the "soul", and we see that different Christians have interpretations of what is the soul is or what it is not.

The whole truth can only come from experience is for actual manifestation of God.

 

[fishy]

Attempting to appeal to my ego? That may work with a high school class but not here buddy. The comment was made within the context of the topic being discussed but you want to take it in a different direction. Why is that? Is it because I refuted your assertions concerning the resurrection in another thread so you want another shot at me?

I must have missed that, how about you link it for me and I'll take a look.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I don't believe the God I read about in the bible would allow us to remain at odds with each other forever. God will one day lift the current veil of deception (Isa 25:7). Everyone, from the staunchiest Atheist to the most sincere but deceived Christian, will one day have the knowledge of the one true God. Each will get a fair opportunity to choose their own fate. Either (a) Eternal life or (b) eternal death (cease to exist for all eternity). And that is the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God.

You have hit the nail... with that observation... but bent it.
If you were a manufacturer of nails they would all be bent.

God does not want us to be at "odds" as you put it. he wants us to embrace each other in Christ.
The question to ask yourself is...
What colour are souls?
what gender are souls?
Are there... Catholic souls? LDS souls? Protestant Souls? Muslim Souls? Hindu Souls?
Of course there are not....
Souls are Souls... what ever the category or religion of the people.

God does not mind which religious path we take during our lives.
His messengers and teachers... and that includes his son Jesus, came to teach us how we should live our lives... for the benefit of the world and all that is in it.
It is our duty to live by these teachings, not blindly, but with intelligence and empathy, so that we leave the world a better place for those that follow.

If some of these Ideas need revising, in the light of the world as we find it, then we should interpret those teachings to have meaning in the new situation.
Faith is not about Statis it is about growth and progress and a greater truth.

Limiting oneself to a particular version of particular scriptures, is to Limit God's message, in a quite meaningless way.

 

[james2ko]

You have hit the nail... with that observation... but bent it. If you were a manufacturer of nails they would all be bent.

1. I'll make sure to manufacture a few straight ones for your coffin

God does not want us to be at "odds" as you put it. he wants us to embrace each other in Christ. The question to ask yourself is... What colour are souls? what gender are souls? Are there... Catholic souls? LDS souls? Protestant Souls? Muslim Souls? Hindu Souls? Of course there are not.... Souls are Souls... what ever the category or religion of the people.

2. Let's not take my statement out of context. I said He doesn't want us to be at odds forever but has allowed it for the time being. Think about it. If He didn't want Christian groups divided, why would He allow satan's ministers to infiltrate our churches:

2Co 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
​

God does not mind which religious path we take during our lives. His messengers and teachers... and that includes his son Jesus, came to teach us how we should live our lives... for the benefit of the world and all that is in it.

3. God doesn't like it, but allows it for now:

2Ki 17:32-34 So they feared the LORD, and from every class they appointed for themselves priests of the high places, who sacrificed for them in the shrines of the high places. 33 They feared the LORD, yet served their own gods—according to the rituals of the nations from among whom they were carried away. 34 To this day they continue practicing the former rituals; they do not fear the LORD, nor do they follow their statutes or their ordinances, or the law and commandment which the LORD had commanded the children of Jacob, whom He named Israel,​

Israel thought they were worshiping God, but from God's perspective they were not. We find precisely the same scenario repeating itself in Christianity today.

It is our duty to live by these teachings, not blindly, but with intelligence and empathy, so that we leave the world a better place for those that follow. If some of these Ideas need revising, in the light of the world as we find it, then we should interpret those teachings to have meaning in the new situation. Faith is not about Statis it is about growth and progress and a greater truth.

4. I agree it is our duty to live by Christ's teachings but the goal you presented is incorrect. Is the state of our world any better now than it was 2,000 years ago? No way, it's just as bad or worse! God's goal is to choose a few individuals in this life and train them to learn His "true" way of life so they can teach it to others during the millennium (Isa 30:20)

Limiting oneself to a particular version of particular scriptures, is to Limit God's message, in a quite meaningless way.

5. I agree. This is why I try to live by, ..."every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." (Mat 4:4)

 

[james2ko]

I must have missed that, how about you link it for me and I'll take a look.

Sure you did

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2793669-post23.html

 

[fishy]

Sure you did

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2793669-post23.html

Oh, I see. Whatever floats your boat.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

1. I'll make sure to manufacture a few straight ones for your coffin



2. Let's not take my statement out of context. I said He doesn't want us to be at odds forever but has allowed it for the time being. Think about it. If He didn't want Christian groups divided, why would He allow satan's ministers to infiltrate our churches:

2Co 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
​

3. God doesn't like it, but allows it for now:

2Ki 17:32-34 So they feared the LORD, and from every class they appointed for themselves priests of the high places, who sacrificed for them in the shrines of the high places. 33 They feared the LORD, yet served their own gods—according to the rituals of the nations from among whom they were carried away. 34 To this day they continue practicing the former rituals; they do not fear the LORD, nor do they follow their statutes or their ordinances, or the law and commandment which the LORD had commanded the children of Jacob, whom He named Israel,
​

Israel thought they were worshiping God, but from God's perspective they were not. We find precisely the same scenario repeating itself in Christianity today.



4. I agree it is our duty to live by Christ's teachings but the goal you presented is incorrect. Is the state of our world any better now than it was 2,000 years ago? No way, it's just as bad or worse! God's goal is to choose a few individuals in this life and train them to learn His "true" way of life so they can teach it to others during the millennium (Isa 30:20)



5. I agree. This is why I try to live by, ..."every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." (Mat 4:4)

It is this narrow and exclusive view of God and Christianity that I find so distressing.
God loves the whole universe.
We have been miserable students and followers
We have let God down at every turn
We can not just leave it up to him to sort out.
It is we "humanity" who must do the work... He has taught us what we must do
It is now down to us to make things work... he will give the strength.

But that work has nothing to do with attacking or converting people who have different forms of worship and beliefs, Christian or otherwise.

They will have as little regard for you as you have for them.

I am sure I will not need nails. My ashes will join my late wife under her Oak tree over looking this lake.

 

[work in progress]

Memory and though are functions that resides in the brain. When we die it stops functioning.
The soul has nothing to do with thought or memory, at least not ours.

Absolutely! I think the problem with separating mind from body mostly comes from the presumption that we understand our own mind or sense of self, and that the way it seems to us is self-explanatory. The idea that we cannot use our own sense of possessing a unified ego that is continuous, and has been constant since the time we were born, is totally alien to us on an intuitive level. But an intuitive sense of self is just as fallible as the accuracy of our perceptions of the world around us. Besides the evidence from unfit minds, we all can ask "where does our consciousness go while we are sleeping?" Where is the soul when we are asleep? And how does it shut down temporarily when the body needs to replenish itself, and come back at the start of a new day?

Naturally, we need to maintain this self-delusion in order to act in our own best interests....that's likely why the brain creates a conscious sense of self in the first place. But we should avoid too much attachment to the ego and concern for self-preservation....especially when it is about trying to keep some unique sense of self functioning after bodily death. It is especially ironic when some will deliberately sacrifice themselves in an effort to make some essence of themselves immortal! A biological drive for self-preservation can actually cause a deliberate suicidal act because of the intuitive sense that the mind is separate from the body. I wonder how many millions of men in ages past, would have marched off to their deaths because some idiot priest promised them immortal life in paradise if they died in battle for the sake of the king!