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Are there any Flat Earth believers here?

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Tazarah

Well-Known Member
Actually, we know exactly the opposite. none of the atoms in your body are alive, but the combination of them *is*. There is nothing in life other than chemical reactions. But none of those chemicals is alive.



Well, we don't know the specifics. On that we both agree. But we also know that there was no life at one point and there is life now. That means that life came from non-life. And, again, the facts are much more immediate than that. NONE of the atoms in your body is alive. It is the *combination* and interaction that makes things alive.

That does not mean that life came from non-life.

How do you know that the first life came from non-life? There is no evidence to support that assertion, and on top of that, never before in the history of the known world has any life came from a non-living source.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Where is the proof of this?

Where are the fossils showing evolution occuring in any kind of species?

You cannot just get two completely different species and then say “hey look, this evolved from that, and this from that.”

The reality is that there are no fossils that have ever been found demonstrating any kind of evolution.

If there have been, then please show me.

First of all, no single species will not show evolution. That is because evolution has to do with how species change over time. So we have to look at many species and compare to how the species alive at different times have changed over time. If you ook at the species that existed at, say, 30 million years ago, very few of the modern mammal species would have been around at that time. So where did the modern ones done from? The only option is that they can from the species that lived at 30 million years ago and changed over time.

Look at two species, you are right, is not enough. You look at several different species over time. In particular, look at the species that did NOT exist at different times (not species we are familiar with, from nots apes, felines, horses, bears, etc---essentially all modern mammals) at some point in the past. Then ask how the species that exist *now* and did not exist in the past came to exist. By far, the most reasonable option is that species that existed in the past have changed over time and became the species that exist now.

By the way, this is precisely the reasoning that first lead to people figured out that some sort of evolution must have happened.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
That does not mean that life came from non-life.

How do you know that the first life came from non-life? There is no evidence to support that assertion, and on top of that, never before in the history of the known world has any life came from a non-living source.
Please, when you have no clue as to what and what is not evidence you are in no position to make such a claim. But here is some more help, there will be a quiz:

Scientific evidence - Wikipedia
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
That does not mean that life came from non-life.

How do you know that the first life came from non-life? There is no evidence to support that assertion, and on top of that, never before in the history of the known world has any life came from a non-living source.

Easy enough. 13.7 billion years ago, there was no life. Now there is. The only option is that the life we see now came from things that were not alive before.
 

Tazarah

Well-Known Member
First some educstion:

Transitional fossil - Wikipedia

Please read that article and get back to me after you have done so.

Where is the missing link from fish to humans? I understand what a “transitional fossil” is, but how does that prove that
First some educstion:

Transitional fossil - Wikipedia

Please read that article and get back to me after you have done so.

That still does not provide any evidence for “missing links” linking any species to another. Where are the “transitional fossils” linking fish to land mammals?

Interesting, but look at what I just found:

“It turns out that no series of fossils can provide evidence for Darwinian descent with modification. Even in the case of living species, buried remains cannot generally be used to establish ancestor-descendant relationships. Imagine finding two human skeletons in the same grave, one about thirty years older than the other. Was the older individual the parent of the younger? Without written genealogical records and identifying marks (or in some cases DNA), it is impossible to answer the question. And in this case we would be dealing with two skeletons from the same species that are only a generation apart and from the same location. With fossils from different species that are now extinct, and widely separated in time and space, there is no way to establish that one is the ancestor of another–no matter how many transitional fossils we find.
In 1978, Gareth Nelson of the American Museum of Natural History wrote: “The idea that one can go to the fossil record and expect to empirically recover an ancestor-descendant sequence, be it of species, genera, families, or whatever, has been, and continues to be, a pernicious illusion.” Nature science writer Henry Gee wrote in 1999 that “no fossil is buried with its birth certificate.” When we call new fossil discoveries “missing links,” it is “as if the chain of ancestry and descent were a real object for our contemplation, and not what it really is: a completely human invention created after the fact, shaped to accord with human prejudices.” Gee concluded: “To take a line of fossils and claim that they represent a lineage is not a scientific hypothesis that can be tested, but an assertion that carries the same validity as a bedtime story–amusing, perhaps even instructive, but not scientific.”
Next time, I’ll address Coyne’s mistakes on embryos.”
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
That does not mean that life came from non-life.

How do you know that the first life came from non-life? There is no evidence to support that assertion, and on top of that, never before in the history of the known world has any life came from a non-living source.


Show me one atom in your own body that is alive. There is no such atom. But, the total of those atoms is alive.
 

Tazarah

Well-Known Member
Easy enough. 13.7 billion years ago, there was no life. Now there is. The only option is that the life we see now came from things that were not alive before.

OK but where did the life come from? You don’t seem to have an answer for that question, and the answer that you gave earlier did not match up with what scientists say.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Where is the missing link from fish to humans? I understand what a “transitional fossil” is, but how does that prove that

You clearly do not understand the article so vs you used the term "missing link". I gave you a transitional fossil in that line. Did you forget already.

That still does not provide any evidence for “missing links” linking any species to another. Where are the “transitional fossils” linking fish to land mammals?

Interesting, but look at what I just found:

“It turns out that no series of fossils can provide evidence for Darwinian descent with modification. Even in the case of living species, buried remains cannot generally be used to establish ancestor-descendant relationships. Imagine finding two human skeletons in the same grave, one about thirty years older than the other. Was the older individual the parent of the younger? Without written genealogical records and identifying marks (or in some cases DNA), it is impossible to answer the question. And in this case we would be dealing with two skeletons from the same species that are only a generation apart and from the same location. With fossils from different species that are now extinct, and widely separated in time and space, there is no way to establish that one is the ancestor of another–no matter how many transitional fossils we find.
In 1978, Gareth Nelson of the American Museum of Natural History wrote: “The idea that one can go to the fossil record and expect to empirically recover an ancestor-descendant sequence, be it of species, genera, families, or whatever, has been, and continues to be, a pernicious illusion.” Nature science writer Henry Gee wrote in 1999 that “no fossil is buried with its birth certificate.” When we call new fossil discoveries “missing links,” it is “as if the chain of ancestry and descent were a real object for our contemplation, and not what it really is: a completely human invention created after the fact, shaped to accord with human prejudices.” Gee concluded: “To take a line of fossils and claim that they represent a lineage is not a scientific hypothesis that can be tested, but an assertion that carries the same validity as a bedtime story–amusing, perhaps even instructive, but not scientific.”
Next time, I’ll address Coyne’s mistakes on embryos.”

Yes, that looks like something copied and pasted from an illegitimate source.

Try again.
 

Tazarah

Well-Known Member
of course that is illegitimate. That is a lying creationist source. Try again.

But thank you for confirming my conclusion.

until you learn what the scientific method is and what is and what is not evidence liars will fool you every time.

Evolutionnews.org is a creationist source?

“Evolution News & Science Today (EN) provides original reporting and analysis about evolution, neuroscience, bioethics, intelligent design and other science-related issues, including breaking news about scientific research. It also covers the impact of science on culture and conflicts over free speech and academic freedom in science. Finally, it fact-checks and critiques media coverage of scientific issues.

The articles published at Evolution News are copyright by Discovery Institute and/or the respective authors and shouldn’t be republished without permission. For permission to reprint, contact [email protected].”

Try again.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
OK but where did the life come from? You don’t seem to have an answer for that question, and the answer that you gave earlier did not match up with what scientists say.

Once again, we don't know all the details. It is still a subject of a lot of scientific research. That said, there is a LOT that we do know. For example, life is based on a relatively small number of amino acids, some nucleic acids, some sugars, some lipids,and few other basic pieces. ALL of those are known to be common in the universe. Second, we know that these basic pieces can and do form the types of polymers that are found in living things. We know that none of these chemicals, in and of itself, is alive, but the interaction of all of them allows for the complexities for things to be alive. We have found that a lot of barriers that originally were thought to be insurmountable are actually pretty easy to get around.

The upshot is that there is a LOT we still don't know. Again, that is not surprising given that we have only known about the genetic code for the last 50 years or so. We don't know many of the conditions of the very early earth because of basic facts about geology that mean that most of the early conditions are either underground and cannot be explored or are remote and difficult to interpret.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Evolutionnews.org is a creationist source?

“Evolution News & Science Today (EN) provides original reporting and analysis about evolution, neuroscience, bioethics, intelligent design and other science-related issues, including breaking news about scientific research. It also covers the impact of science on culture and conflicts over free speech and academic freedom in science. Finally, it fact-checks and critiques media coverage of scientific issues.

The articles published at Evolution News are copyright by Discovery Institute and/or the respective authors and shouldn’t be republished without permission. For permission to reprint, contact [email protected].”

Try again.
like I said, until you learn the basics of science you will believe any liar. That is a publication of the Discovery Institute, the organization that lost in the Dover Trial:

Discovery Institute - Wikipedia
 
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