Averroes
Active Member
Well glad I wont marry you
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Are there Reasonable Moral Grounds to Oppose Open Relationships and Marriages?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
Well glad I wont marry you
Averroes
Active Member
I hate repeating myself to adults so let me be more detailed.
To many of you people can't give 100% to their significant other. Hey that is fine. However, emotions can't be contained in mathematical symbols such as percentages and decimals. To give your all in a relationship can equate to 100% to not give your all can equate to less than that. But when you start putting percentages on emotional output is where and I want to steal Songbird's comment "set yourself up for disappointment."
My wife being my all doesn't mean I isolate myself from friends or lack friends or don't want to have friends. It means my wife is both my best friend and lover and that emotional/spiritual connection I desire. So yes a partner can be that 100% but then again putting percentages on emotion is not very "smart" since emotional states are sometimes unpredictable. I define this on common sense. Any life partner is THE PERSON you choose to give yourself to, a very huge difference from your average friend or co-worker buddy
To many of you people can't give 100% to their significant other. Hey that is fine. However, emotions can't be contained in mathematical symbols such as percentages and decimals. To give your all in a relationship can equate to 100% to not give your all can equate to less than that. But when you start putting percentages on emotional output is where and I want to steal Songbird's comment "set yourself up for disappointment."
My wife being my all doesn't mean I isolate myself from friends or lack friends or don't want to have friends. It means my wife is both my best friend and lover and that emotional/spiritual connection I desire. So yes a partner can be that 100% but then again putting percentages on emotion is not very "smart" since emotional states are sometimes unpredictable. I define this on common sense. Any life partner is THE PERSON you choose to give yourself to, a very huge difference from your average friend or co-worker buddy
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Walkntune
Well-Known Member
I think he just meant 100% as in a soul mate.Why he probably still needs doctors and lawyers and such!
illykitty
RF's pet cat
For the first question, I am completely satisfied with this one person and I don't see why having someone else would make me happier. I cannot imagine someone being half as compatible and understanding of my quirky personality.
Maybe it's just you people are more... "Adventurous". I'm not into weird stuff so I cannot see why one person couldn't fill my fatasies. I tell him when I want something and he complies.
Same for the other way around... We have the same tastes, so it's no issue. For example, he would never ask me to have a threesome and it's good because I have no desire for that.I just cannot understand how having more makes someone happier... For me it's all about the quality of the relationship!
Songbird
She rules her life like a bird in flight
That line again? Such an odd thing to say. I'm married with three kids, and you're arguing with people who are married and know what they're talking about. Even marriage experts caution against the kind of expectations you have. Generally, such an unrealistic expectation finds couples facing divorce when reality intervenes.
Do you have other friends besides your wife? Assuming you do, does this not indicate that you receive some emotional and social benefit from other people other than your wife?
Sure it does. And you are a happier and healthier person because of it. We are social animals; we need more than just one person in our lives.
An open relationship takes it a step further, of course, but I don't think it's apples and oranges as you suggest: It's not that you're spouse provides 100% of your needs and the spouses of people in open relationships provide less than 100%. All of our partners provide less than 100% of our emotional and social needs.
blackout
Violet.
Well if you're talking about "giving your all",
a person can give their all to their primary relationship/partner
in an Open format as well.
It's just, the All you're giving
includes different things.
"Giving your All" to your partner/primary partner
will never include all the same things for any two couples.
Still each one of us, no matter our preferences,
can give the all of our love, and the all of our blessing,
as regards the deepest needs and desires of our partner.
Whatever those may be.
Why?
Because we love them,
and we want them to be happy
and live fulfilled.
a person can give their all to their primary relationship/partner
in an Open format as well.
It's just, the All you're giving
includes different things.
"Giving your All" to your partner/primary partner
will never include all the same things for any two couples.
Still each one of us, no matter our preferences,
can give the all of our love, and the all of our blessing,
as regards the deepest needs and desires of our partner.
Whatever those may be.
Why?
Because we love them,
and we want them to be happy
and live fulfilled.
McBell
Unbound
There are just some things that a person has to experience for them selves.
Drolefille
PolyPanGeekGirl
I agree with UltraViolet's response here. I'm not saying that you're not completely happy with your partner/spouse/SO, I'm saying that odds are they're not "everything" you could possibly want at any given point in time. If nothing else you're going to find that the way they eat their cereal absolutely maddening because they won't stop SLURPING and you swear to god if they SLURP one more time you're throwing the OJ at them!*
That doesn't mean you're not in love, or that you don't give your all, but it's being realistic. Otherwise you wouldn't need or want friends.
Statistically I'm sure it happens, but numerically it's very, very small.
*Slurping will be used as a metaphorical example for the numerous imperfections and annoyances that we experience in our significant others. These can be big things or small things, or small things blown up to big things, but I'm going to keep using it because it's simple.
That isn't what was said at all. You can give your all in a relationship and still not be everything that the other person would want in an ideal partner. Odds are in fact, their idea of an ideal partner changes to YOU when you fall in love. And then, when they find out how loudly you slurp your cereal, they wish for you... without the slurping.
None of this means I'm reducing real emotion to numbers, I'm just using numbers to quantitatively demonstrate a qualitative phenomenon. Also if numbers and math drive the passion out of your relationship, I am so sorry you're missing out on the awesomeness of a geeky relationship.
Whether I label it with a number or not, the feelings exist. Have you never watched another couple argue over something that is obviously an ongoing qualitative concern? This doesn't mean they don't love each other or don't give their all to each other, just that there are disconnects in every couple. I am never arguing that such disconnects MUST mean that a couple should open a relationship. That's probably a bad idea in a monogamous couple, overall.
And your wife, who I cannot tell if she exists or is hypothetical, may be your emotional connection, lover and spiritual connection and still slurp her soup.
Cool! But what if you'd found TWO people who you were compatible with and in different ways and both loved your quirky personality?
I leave my door open, I might find one person for whom I'm willing to leave my current SOs behind and stop being polyamorous. But I'm not holding my breath, and I'm very happy with how things are (I'm not just biding my time, these relationships are fulfilling and I'm quite happy.) But as I said, I'm not trying to convert you, just explain a bit where I'm coming from.There's not really a "you people" here. There are a WIDE variety of open relationship styles. I practice poly-fidelity primarily. We're in committed relationships with each other, we're not out looking for casual sex on the side. We all have the freedom to do so, but we aren't.Maybe it's just you people are more... "Adventurous". I'm not into weird stuff so I cannot see why one person couldn't fill my fatasies. I tell him when I want something and he complies.
A hypothetical might be where two people find each other and get along well in all things but one, they're perfect housemates, great lovers, parenting styles mesh, personalities don't clash and they are as close to that "100%" as can be, except in one thing. One partner's into the kink community (BDSM) and the other's not.
In a monogamous relationship, this might be an irreconcilable difference. One might be unsatisfied because this one desire is not being met and is not allowed to be met by outsiders due to the rules of the relationship. The other partner might feel bad or resentful that they cannot fulfill this desire - if you're not comfortable in the scene, it's not right to force it on someone, nor are they going to enjoy it. The first partner might cheat to fulfill this need, or live unfulfilled, the other might be suspicious or resentful of either course. This relationship might end up breaking up over this incompatability despite the fact that everything else is fantastic. (The relationship might stay together unhappily or might work out in the end as well)
In a non-monogamous relationship, the first partner might (depending on the rules of the relationship) be able to get those needs fulfilled outside of the relationship, in the local -safe and responsible - kink scene. The other partner might watch, or participate, or stay home and read a book while the other is hanging out in the local dungeon. These otherwise compatible partners might be able to work things out AND have all of their needs met.
Neither is guaranteed to work or fail, and it doesn't have to be anything 'adventurous' like kink that creates these relatively small incompatibilities. And plenty of people just adapt to what works best for their partner and move on. That's fine too. Whatever works for people is whatever works for them. I'm just pointing out how sometimes poly/open relationships can and do work.
You cannot assume that quantity means quality is no longer the issue!
Yes this. And it's not a slight to anyone's relationship.
Also this!
:clap
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
Yeah, having to justify yourself to strangers is tiring. And oh so repetitive. I imagine having to read it is almost as bad.
I'm am so grateful for my non-traditional spouse!
(even though we aren't in an "open marriage" our brand of "non-traditional" brings up similar amounts of scrutiny... so I can sympathize")
wa:do
illykitty
RF's pet cat
Cool! But what if you'd found TWO people who you were compatible with and in different ways and both loved your quirky personality?
I doubt that feeling exactly the same about two people happens. But if it did, I would chose a person and tell the other one that it's best s/he moves on and finds someone else. I'd never be able to be in an open relationship, along with not wanting more than one partener... I'd always worry about what I'm lacking and why s/he spends time with someone else instead of me and why it isn't enough to have one person loving him/her. It just sounds like misery (not saying this happens to you, just saying that's how I would feel about it).
I'm not sure how fidelity works if you just can get someone else, and then someone else and then another one... Sorry if "you all" was offensive. I was wrong in assuming you were all in the same style of relationships.
Well one would probably know about the kinks someone has before getting married to them... Unless you embark in a wedding really quick. If this would cause an issue then I wouldn't marry this person and find someone else. I wouldn't have married my husband if there was such a difference (that obviously would cause a lot of problems).
Well someone else mentionned filling the gaps, so I assummed the relationship wasn't of quality. You wouldn't need to fill gaps if it was a really good one, but that's my opinion. I feel a lot safer knowing that me and my husband have each other and that no one else gets in between us (both figuratively and literally, lol).
It's personal preference and I don't think I'll ever understand your lifestyle but I'm never going to oppose it either. It would be wrong to impose something on someone just because we don't agree or understand it. :foryou:
Drolefille
PolyPanGeekGirl
People who feel that way are not good fits for an open relationship. And that's cool, like I said, I'm not evangelizing with the goal of conversion. I'm never worried about it.
It's not offensive, I was just trying to let you know that there is a wide variety in practices. I'm in a long term, committed relationship with two people. They're each in long term, committed relationships with two people as well. Although I have the freedom, and often the encouragement, to seek casual partners, I'm not really interested in that. (That could change, but I doubt it at the moment.) Fidelity means faithfulness, right? I'm faithful to the rules of my relationship, it's just that my rules aren't the same thing as the rules of a monogamous relationship.
It's totally possible to cheat in an open relationship, you do it by lying or breaking the rules of the relationship. And people do it and they're just as big of jerks as cheaters in monogamous relationships. They would not be faithful.
Relationships can be open but not polyamorous, polyamorous but closed, semi-open, open to only a partner of a certain gender, open for emotional bonds only, open for sexual bonds only, open for any sort of sex except X, open for a kink, etc.
Despite the otherwise total perfection of the relationship? I'd be surprised if there wasn't something in your relationship where you mentally 'settled' (again this is not meant in a negative way. I think everyone mentally 'settles' in any relationship over something or other.) These issues don't mean monogamous relationships are doomed to fail, but it is simply that poly relationships have a possibility to solve the problem in a different way.
See all the other posts about how no one is your 100%. Your husband rounds up to your 100%, but he's probably not inherently your 100%, if only because of how he slurps his cereal.
I feel perfectly safe in both my relationships, not because 'no one could come between us' but because I know I'm not dating jerks who would ditch me for someone else. You're not safe because you're monogamous, you're safe because your husband's not a jerk who'd cheat on you.
I agree. I don't think it's impossible to understand though even if it's not for you. I don't hang myself on hooks for kicks, but I understand why the friends I have who do do it. Even though I'm never ever signing up.
blackout
Violet.
As people grow and change and age and mature,
their sexual needs and desires can change DRASTICALLY.
Many other things about them can change drastically as well.
Hopefully we are all growing. Growth is a primary catalyst of change.
Age and hormonal changes, necessarily change who we are as well.
Averroes
Active Member
If all my friends abandoned me tomorrow I still have my wife. The "ride or die" woman who ia my life partner. The one who is willing to walk through the depths of hell with me. My friends are an added bonus but my primary alligeance is to my wife. However I disagree heavily onbyour ending sentence totally backwards.
Averroes
Active Member
What line again?
I am saying those are my views. I don't see how you don't get that I am talking about fidelity jeeezus. Besides I don't listen to experts because these folks can be wrong.
There are cultural variations on how we approach relationships. I am merely stating a fact of how I believe.
McBell
Unbound
Averroes
Active Member
Jesus if we all received exactly everything we desired that would be perfection. Its not rocket science that nobody is perfect and yes there are flaws. But there is a difference between perfection and being content. Ideally, to be married and happy completely to a flawed character, a person can still be completely happy...yes 100%
I mean, for christ sake I don't suffer from delusions of grandeur, I understand that every single moment we wont be satisfied. But hell that is life. That rule is applicable to everything. Today I may be happy, tomorrow I may not be. Doesn't mean I am bi-polar, I merely encounter different stimuli everyday.
I mean, for christ sake I don't suffer from delusions of grandeur, I understand that every single moment we wont be satisfied. But hell that is life. That rule is applicable to everything. Today I may be happy, tomorrow I may not be. Doesn't mean I am bi-polar, I merely encounter different stimuli everyday.
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Averroes
Active Member
Of course, like any other person. There is no universal law on relationships. Like I implied in my statement earlier, there are different cultural truths in how to attain a successful and gratifying relationship. For instance, people born in the 50's have a unique cultural perspective of relationships and people of the 90's and 00's have theirs. This is why those experts I don't listen to.
Reine
Member
I don't think that good relationships are built on the idea of being fullfilled by someone else, becoming fullfilled wthiin one's self, and then bringingthat to share with someone else as a benefit to them. Along the way we find ourselves reaping the benefits they want to bring to us. I think an open relaionship where you date only others who also want an open relationship is limiting your choice of prospective partners to a point that will reduce the qualities to chose from in another person that are importand to you. This seems to be a set up for failure and lonliness. I also see problems with jealousy, family, social occaisons, confusion in the children, and sexual confusion for adolescents raised with parents of open relationship.