Are there Reasonable Moral Grounds to Oppose Open Relationships and Marriages?

[Averroes]

Reine thanks for answering my question lol

 

[Drolefille]

I don't think single parents have the ideal set up either... and some women claim that a vibrator is better than the real thing. So, that would be their truth. I never did say that my beleif is the same as truth... but only that it is my truth. Subjective truths should not be made into law unless their is a proof of damage. I have no proof of damage, but I have my experiences that lead me to my own internal truths. These are truths that I take a personal stand on, by living in a way that includes them, and demonstrating this to my kids. If I find later that I am mistaken, I modify my stance.

So it is your truth but not the truth. I agree.

If you know that your truth is not the truth, then don't make claims that women as a whole don't want X because you don't want X.

I didn't say that a vibrator was not as good as the real thing, but not the SAME as the real thing. And it isn't, right? My only point there is that your claim that women don't want casual sex because they could just use a vibrator doesn't make a lot of sense.

ETA: I do want to make it clear I'm not trying to be confrontational for no apparent reason, but while I can respect that for YOU it is truth that YOU feel this way, extrapolating that to other women as a rule for them doesn't work logically.

 

[Reine]

I had no idea that the US was the only culture...
If you look at human history you will find a very large percentage of cultures around the globe have engaged in "nonnuclear" parenting strategies.
From polyandry and polygamy to polyfidelity, concubines and cicisbeo there are dozens of variations on what a "healthy family" looks like.


I can't believe you said it either... a vibrator is nice, but nothing compared to a skilled living partner.

(Unless you have Sunstones gal...then all bets are off because she is a work of art. )

wa:do

I didn't mean the US is the only culture... I thought I posted earlier that I didn't see these types of relationhips of open relationships in the US, and where are they. I was wondering that, because I can see kids at pre-dating stage at school feeling like their parents are 'screwed up' because all or most of their friends have parents in a monogomous relationship. Some of the cultures that have women, say treated like property, I think are not really happy people. The other cultures where this is fine, and it is the norm have been operating that way for a long time. That isn't the case for the most part in the US ... not that I see anyway.

(I don't have one... but today is my birthday, so maybe I'll get a surprise ... with a battery?) :thud: ... that's my hubby, I told him what I wanted and he just passed out :/

 

[Reine]

Do you believe (since you mentioned the word legal) open relationships would survive parental custody disputes?

I think only the biological parents would get any type of rights to the children, and the third party would walk away with nothing... marriage vows are a businedss contract. Also, I did see your answers on the previous page, and I thought they were good. I'm just waiting for the younger people to respond who are up to date on that kind of stuff. Your expamples were putting my brain in overdrive, and it started hurting

 

[Iti oj]

Well first, condoms prevent both STDs and children.

But how is the mating pool actually increased in size. Instead I would think the mating pool stays about the same it's just redistributed. Genetic disorders would have the same likilhood to be propagated, particularly since women can only have so many kids at the same speed.

We also have DNA tests. (Also in some species and in some human cultures there's actually been evidence that not knowing the father can mean that all involved males are more likely to support the mother and children.) That said, we're not a product of our instincts, we have our brains instead. Men raise children that aren't their own all the time in our culture.

I don't understand how the biological = moral since an unthinking animal doesn't have morals.



Which might be why culturally polygyny or harem style partnerships are the most common form of non-monogamous relationships we've seen throughout history (barring cheating relationships.)
Again, I fail to see a moral grounding here?


I'm not seeing individual harm that isn't a fault in a specific relationship and not due to the existence of open relationships as a whole, also there's a lot of speculation and assumption about childbirth etc. that doesn't really apply to modern society. We're not slaves to our instincts, if we were we wouldn't care about morals.

I dont understand how baring possible biological reperociousion for the race as a whole how anything any adult does sexual is your issue. I think it would be more moraly wrong for you to but in then any possible set of sexual actions could be.

btw i finaly introduced myself guys.

 

[Drolefille]

I dont understand how baring possible biological reperociousion for the race as a whole how anything any adult does sexual is your issue. I think it would be more moraly wrong for you to but in then any possible set of sexual actions could be.

btw i finaly introduced myself guys.

That's kind of my point actually. And I don't think that biological repercussions for the species is really a concern of individual relationships either.

 

[Reine]

So it is your truth but not the truth. I agree.

If you know that your truth is not the truth, then don't make claims that women as a whole don't want X because you don't want X.

I didn't say that a vibrator was not as good as the real thing, but not the SAME as the real thing. And it isn't, right? My only point there is that your claim that women don't want casual sex because they could just use a vibrator doesn't make a lot of sense.

ETA: I do want to make it clear I'm not trying to be confrontational for no apparent reason, but while I can respect that for YOU it is truth that YOU feel this way, extrapolating that to other women as a rule for them doesn't work logically.

I stated all the things I have so far, saying they were opinions based on my subjective experiences. This is a truth. I was asked to give my opinions and so I have. the majority of women are looking for more than satisfacory sex, it is what I think .. because that is what I have seen. If a woman does not want a relationship, they want an orgasm or pleasurfilles sex for a set amount of time. They could use a vibrator... or get one with a warm body attached. That second one is a man, and if there is human ineteraction it becomes a relationship. My point is that sex without a relationship occurs with out a man attached to the vibrator.

 

[Drolefille]

I stated all the things I have so far, saying they were opinions based on my subjective experiences. This is a truth. I was asked to give my opinions and so I have. the majority of women are looking for more than satisfacory sex, it is what I think .. because that is what I have seen. If a woman does not want a relationship, they want an orgasm or pleasurfilles sex for a set amount of time. They could use a vibrator... or get one with a warm body attached. That second one is a man, and if there is human ineteraction it becomes a relationship. My point is that sex without a relationship occurs with out a man attached to the vibrator.

I'd disagree with that because of the sense of the word relationship changes when we talk about intimate relationships. I mean technically we have a relationship with the person who checks us out at the store, but that doesn't mean we're in a relationship with them. Similarly one would technically have a relationship with the person they have a one night stand with, but they're not in a relationship with them.

I don't know what the majority of women want, surveys are hard to pin this down because women are socialized that wanting a relationship is ok and casual sex is bad. Men are socialized that wanting a relationship is for women (or for when you're older) and playing the field is A-OK. So suveys don't always tell the truth.

However some women want casual sex, just as some want serious relationships only and some want both.

 

[Iti oj]

That's kind of my point actually. And I don't think that biological repercussions for the species is really a concern of individual relationships either.

then society and technology make this question mute. But I will think and try to expand on my previous line of thought

 

[Reine]

I know both my boyfriends' wives and am very good friends with one, and becoming good friends with the other. One doesn't really have family, the other's far enough away we haven't done 'family stuff' really. Long distance relationships have their own struggles I talk to both on the phone.

Neither have kids, one wants them, it might happen, but we're not ready yet.

When I was in a relationship with a couple who had a kid, yes I was there for parties, events, and bought the kid presents. I had not been introduced to the kid as a partner, as we weren't there yet, and we didn't get there for other reasons, but that was the intent of things. This couple was one that had a large 'family by choice' with friends staying there most weekends when they're not travelling out of town for work so my presence wasn't odd.

Well, thanks for sharing that

 

[Katzpur]

Also Mormons, and I have seen things on TV (true stories) where they are like prisoners of their husband.

Could you elaborate on who exactly you believe these "Mormons" to be? Would they be members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or would they be members of some polygamist offshoot? I'll withhold my comments until I see your response.

 

[Reine]

I'd disagree with that because of the sense of the word relationship changes when we talk about intimate relationships. I mean technically we have a relationship with the person who checks us out at the store, but that doesn't mean we're in a relationship with them. Similarly one would technically have a relationship with the person they have a one night stand with, but they're not in a relationship with them.

I don't know what the majority of women want, surveys are hard to pin this down because women are socialized that wanting a relationship is ok and casual sex is bad. Men are socialized that wanting a relationship is for women (or for when you're older) and playing the field is A-OK. So suveys don't always tell the truth.

However some women want casual sex, just as some want serious relationships only and some want both.

My own observations of what I see in the world around me is what leads me to beleive that women want more than casual sex, is that most every woman I speak to, speaks about the relationships they are in or want to be in.

 

[painted wolf]

I didn't mean the US is the only culture... I thought I posted earlier that I didn't see these types of relationhips of open relationships in the US, and where are they. I was wondering that, because I can see kids at pre-dating stage at school feeling like their parents are 'screwed up' because all or most of their friends have parents in a monogomous relationship. Some of the cultures that have women, say treated like property, I think are not really happy people. The other cultures where this is fine, and it is the norm have been operating that way for a long time. That isn't the case for the most part in the US ... not that I see anyway.

LoL... I never felt "screwed up" because my mom was single. If anything I felt better off than many of my friends, who's parents fought and even beat one another.

Kids in school have more important things to make you feel bad about, like the clothes you wear, the people you like and the grades you get.

(I don't have one... but today is my birthday, so maybe I'll get a surprise ... with a battery?) :thud: ... that's my hubby, I told him what I wanted and he just passed out :/

LoL... boys can be funny.

wa:do

 

[Iti oj]

My own observations of what I see in the world around me is what leads me to beleive that women want more than casual sex, is that most every woman I speak to, speaks about the relationships they are in or want to be in.

Yeah but you are a christian speaking to mostly christian woman. Ima a heathen and have met a very large group of a different sort of chick .

 

[Drolefille]

My own observations of what I see in the world around me is what leads me to beleive that women want more than casual sex, is that most every woman I speak to, speaks about the relationships they are in or want to be in.

What he says down there is quite true. Odds are your social circle affects your observations. That's why such things generally reuire surveys and statistics, but even those can be problematic as I noted.

I know that women hold a wide spectrum of opinions, which is why I feel confident saying some want casual sex, some don't, the numbers don't matter much since we're no longer speaking in absolutes.

Yeah but you are a christian speaking to mostly christian woman. Ima a heathen and have met a very large group of a different sort of chick .

Although without the word chick

 

[Reine]

Could you elaborate on who exactly you believe these "Mormons" to be? Would they be members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or would they be members of some polygamist offshoot? I'll withhold my comments until I see your response.

I was referring to this: SA bookworm: BOOKWORM REVIEW: THE 19TH WIFE

 

[Reine]

Yeah but you are a christian speaking to mostly christian woman. Ima a heathen and have met a very large group of a different sort of chick .

I don't actually speak to mostly Christian women... I am more of a Christian deist, and don't beleive that public worship services are necessary. I've been in some places most people would be scared to, had guns shoved in my face and so on. I've talked to every kind of person, had many different experiences.

 

[Reine]

LoL... I never felt "screwed up" because my mom was single. If anything I felt better off than many of my friends, who's parents fought and even beat one another.

Kids in school have more important things to make you feel bad about, like the clothes you wear, the people you like and the grades you get.

LoL... boys can be funny.

wa:do

I wasn't referring to single moms, but being the only kid in a group of friends that has two parents, and one or more additional partners for the parents as well. This kind of thing is important to kids... they are very sensitive about being embarassed by their parents.

 

[painted wolf]

I wasn't referring to single moms, but being the only kid in a group of friends that has two parents, and one or more additional partners for the parents as well. This kind of thing is important to kids... they are very sensitive about being embarassed by their parents.

Like I said, kids have a lot more to worry about... besides your parents getting some nookie on the side can actually make you cooler in some circles.

Besides, they are the only kids who's parents are getting some on the side openly, the others are hiding it.

wa:do

 

[blackout]

I wasn't referring to single moms, but being the only kid in a group of friends that has two parents, and one or more additional partners for the parents as well. This kind of thing is important to kids... they are very sensitive about being embarassed by their parents.

The two parent model is becoming less and less 'normal' anyway,
what with all of the serial polygamy going on.

ie, divorce and remarriage.

ex, child is with parents (A) mon-fri
and parents (B) sat & sun.

(for a grand total of 4 parents)