Are there single fathers, who never married, with children in the West?

[savagewind]

If it is obvious, then why don't I hear you agreeing with me? Why do I hear you agreeing with them?
Yelling is abusive, is abuse. What planet are you from?

Please look up the word in the dictionary. On the forum, it is good to use standard definitions of words and not one's own.

 

[savagewind]

If it is obvious, then why don't I hear you agreeing with me?

I probably did agree in words not but not the words "I agree with you". Also, it seems to me you need no encouragement.

Why do I hear you agreeing with them?

What do you hear, then I can tell you why.
cc

 

[savagewind]

When at a sport's event the crowd yells who are they abusing?

I shall agree that yelling in the home is "unpleasantly rough and jarring to the senses." Feel better?

 

[JoStories]

Why? Don't you like being a woman? I have no problems with them myself. So no answer then, Madam. Tis you, after all, that is calling me "Mr Evans" which I am sure is not out of respect.

Actually, it is out of respect. I was raised to be polite and use surnames in all cases unless invited to do otherwise by the person with whom I was talking. You have seen here that I am known by almost everyone as Jo. Now, admittedly, I might have been biased in reading that post as many of your posts, to date, have been rancorous or even at times, rude. I try my level best to be polite to everyone. Even those who make me want to throw my coffee cup across the room at times. I was just asking for that small modicum of respect.. If that is too much, I apologize for wasting your time.

 

[JoStories]

I thought you would be all for equality. This is where the double standards come in.

I am for equality. But that post suggested that men could force women to carry the fetus to term against her will. That was what I was objecting to. Would you want a woman to force you to give up a testicle? I doubt it. Its the same thing and its neanderthal at best.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Please look up the word in the dictionary. On the forum, it is good to use standard definitions of words and not one's own.

. maltreatment: the physical, psychological, or sexual maltreatment of a person or animal
Encarta ® World English Dictionary

How many times do I post that for people to ignore it?

 

[Robert.Evans]

Actually, it is out of respect. I was raised to be polite and use surnames in all cases unless invited to do otherwise by the person with whom I was talking. You have seen here that I am known by almost everyone as Jo. Now, admittedly, I might have been biased in reading that post as many of your posts, to date, have been rancorous or even at times, rude. I try my level best to be polite to everyone. Even those who make me want to throw my coffee cup across the room at times. I was just asking for that small modicum of respect.. If that is too much, I apologize for wasting your time.

You did not use to call me by my title, so I am not buying that. This has happened since you decided to verbally attack me with pronouns. You may try and show you are polite with one post like that if you wish, but you have not been polite to me from day one; on another thread when you sided with @outhouse.
So please, quit the false politeness, it doesn't wash. You should read some of your comments about me.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I am for equality. But that post suggested that men could force women to carry the fetus to term against her will. That was what I was objecting to. Would you want a woman to force you to give up a testicle? I doubt it. Its the same thing and its neanderthal at best.

There is no comparison in that. None! Are you asked to give up part of your reproductive system? That is ludicrous. You are saying that men do not count when the decision whether to have a baby terminated or not. They do. It's called equality the thing you state you are for (accept for that one it seems.)

Neanderthal seems to coming from your side of the genda-biased views. Try living by your standards of equality. Ask the man also. Consider his view to be valid.
Having said that, I still think the majority of the answer should lie with the woman, for obvious reasons;

 

[savagewind]

. maltreatment: the physical, psychological, or sexual maltreatment of a person or animal
Encarta ® World English Dictionary

How many times do I post that for people to ignore it?

Tell us how a loud argument is mistreatment. I understand that quiet words of love are better. But the discussion is about how an abusive mate has no reason to be abusive. Loudness is a physical RESPONSE like happy, sad or angry. And like happy sad and angry it would take a spiritual master to be in control at all times.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...e-art-of-self-control/articleshow/9622874.cms

Please listen.

You have not backed down from the opinion that "it goes both ways". It sounds like you are saying that the lack of self-control is justified in the one initiating the abuse because the one being abused is lacking it also.

Am I understanding you correctly?

Yelling is not right. But it can't be considered abuse. Are arguments not right according to you?

Yelling is done WITH bad reason. It is the BAD REASON which is considered the abuse.

You keep saying that arguments are abuse. Do I hear you correctly? Tell me please, are arguments not right?

 

[savagewind]

OK. So arguments are right between people on the internet but not between married couples Right?
Arguments are right in congress but not between married couples.
Arguments are right in debates but not between married couples.

 

[McBell]

Do you have to have the title feminism for it to actually exist? I don't think so.

that is the best you got?

Hopefully columbus will have a more intellectually stimulating reply...

 

[McBell]

You are judging God? Do you even know who he is?

Seems to me someone has to.
You do not seem to have the balls to stand up to bullies.
That does not mean everyone must cower in fear.

 

[paarsurrey]

So we have an ungodly society and a family unit that doesn't function.... where then are the grandparents? Grandmothers used to hlep.

There is a point.
There must be a viable/productive and just family unit, neither the children should suffer mentally and or physically nor the conjugal partners. After all a nation consists of all family belonging to it and the sick family units would contributes negatively to the nation- a family at large . If a family unit is healthy and of sound psyche the nation would be a healthy nation with healthy psyche.
Regards
P.S.
Family Dynamics and Health
Family dynamics significantly impact health in both positive and negative ways. Having a close-knit and supportive family provides emotional support, economic well-being, and increases overall health. However, the opposite is also true. When family life is characterized by stress and conflict, the health of family members tends to be negatively affected.
http://www.uniteforsight.org/gender-power/module1

 

[paarsurrey]

I'm not too sure what this has to do with child support unless you are trying to put forth that it should not be an issue because "grandma!". Which is absurd. Responsibility falls to parents, not grandparents. And even if it did does mean the grandparents (that is both grandfather and grandmother btw) are alive, live close enough, or are in any position to help themselves.
Though again, what this has to do with the argument that women get pregnant on purpose to get child support I have no idea.

I agree with you "Responsibility falls to parents, not grandparents" .
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

No one had said there aren't different types of abuse. We have pointed out that you using those broadband definitions in a discussion about one particular kind of abuse is dishonest. So just because any of us admit there are different kinds of abuse it does not mean we agree with you on the topic of domestic abuse and how it is not "most often not one-sided".

I agree with you "most often not one-sided", sometimes it could be one-sided though, the possibility does exist, family friend could tell one as to what is the case and who is at fault.
Regards

 

[Draka]

What gets me is the "Grandmothers use to help". He didn't say grandfathers, he said grandmothers. The whole issue being discussed at the time was child support or the non-payment thereof. Why should it fall to one parent and their mother to raise a child two created? Feminism hasn't destroyed the family unit, feminism has nothing to do with a deadbeat parent. If a man (or woman) walks out on their responsibilities it shouldn't be left to grandmothers to raise their grandchildren. And why does it always fall to the women with him? Newsflash, men are fully capable of raising their children too. I mean, sure, grandparents still help when they can and how they can if they can, but highlight on the word "if" please. People have their own problems to deal with as they get older. Some grandparents just may not be in any position to help. they shouldn't be expected to either. They didn't bring the child into the world, that would be its mother and father.

From saying that "grandmothers use to help", to calling me "missy" and @JoStories "woman", to disagreeing with @A Greased Scotsman saying "Women do not lose or forsake their bodily autonomy when they become pregnant and they are not property or chattels for men to control as they please. Pregnant women are not walking incubators with no rights or sense of self. They're human beings with needs." (yes, Robert actually quoted that and simply said "disagree"), to many other statements here and elsewhere on this forum, it is quite evident that Robert is extremely sexist. Dangerously so. Scarily so. Add into the equation his persistent need to try to establish abuse, when we are specifically discussing domestic abuse, as "most often not one sided", it sure sounds like he is trying to validate violence or blame the victim. Which is highly disturbing. This whole thread is highly disturbing now.

 

[paarsurrey]

I didn't say I didn't have enough money. I was lucky that I made a good enough income myself back then (in military) that his $50 didn't mean too very much to me. As for grandparents I lived many states away at the time. So do many others. And with many older people they are on fixed incomes themselves so cannot help financially. I shouldn't have to explain all this really. It still has nothing to do with the assertion that women get pregnant to milk child support money.

You are very right. The plight of women in America is not good.
Regards

 

[Draka]

I agree with you "most often not one-sided", sometimes it could be one-sided though, the possibility does exist, family friend could tell one as to what is the case and who is at fault.
Regards

No. See, Robert was claiming that abuse is "most often not one-sided" when we were speaking of domestic abuse. In other words, his argument was that it was rare that abuse went one way. However, in the case of domestic abuse, that simply isn't so. It overwhelmingly is usually a one-way thing, with an abuser and a victim. To state that abuse is "most often not one-sided", it sure comes across as him blaming the victim of abuse.

 

[paarsurrey]

I hate this. I think the father should have the same rights - if that's the right word for it.
I mean, if a woman can decide to abort her child despite the father wanting to keep it, then why can't a man walk away from all responsibility for that child if the mother decides to keep it?
Or if we're going to say the father must take responsibility for the child, then he should be able to prevent the mother from getting an abortion and he should get full custody of that child.

Some women deceive men and some men deceive the women, there should be vigilant check on that to create a norm in the society.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

No, I believe he was asking how do you prove a woman was being deceitful? A man could just claim she led him on. He would have to prove that she manipulated him into having a child just to get money from him. Would be hard to do. Not only is it "he said, she said" but it would be put to him that if he didn't want to chance getting her pregnant he should have either taken protection into his own hands or just not have sex with her. Pregnancy is a known side effect to sex. There are BC methods that are highly reliable but there is always a failure rate. If a man absolutely, positively, does not want to take any chance of having a baby with a woman...don't have sex with her. Unless he is raped he had just as much responsibility in getting the woman pregnant as she did. It's beyond time for many men to understand this fact.

I agree with your point.
Regards