Are there single fathers, who never married, with children in the West?

[paarsurrey]

You didn't have to explain it all. The comment was on the fact that families are breaking up, your testimony to that says it all (parents look after children and not grandparents ) as if they can't help.
The cost of bringing up children would not be as high if relationships did not break up and Gparent helped.

Children are in no case responsibility of the grandparents.
Regards

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

to disagreeing with @A Greased Scotsman saying "Women do not lose or forsake their bodily autonomy when they become pregnant and they are not property or chattels for men to control as they please. Pregnant women are not walking incubators with no rights or sense of self. They're human beings with needs." (yes, Robert actually quoted that and simply said "disagree")

Wow...

 

[Draka]

Wow...

Indeed.

 

[Robert.Evans]

But the discussion is about how an abusive mate has no reason to be abusive.

No where has that been defined in the last few pages. We have not been able to get past the definition of "abuse" which most narrow down to one definition which they cannot do by definition itself.

 

[Robert.Evans]

that is the best you got?

Hopefully columbus will have a more intellectually stimulating reply...

As ever, your comments are most illuminating, illuminating that you have nothing to offer, bar sarcasm.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Seems to me someone has to.
You do not seem to have the balls to stand up to bullies.
That does not mean everyone must cower in fear.

And who is the bully, God? Haha. So you prove he exists so you can stand up to him? Now there is logic.

 

[savagewind]

No where has that been defined in the last few pages. We have not been able to get past the definition of "abuse" which most narrow down to one definition which they cannot do by definition itself.

Abuse means actions which HURT and not HELP. Yelling hurts only the yeller unless there is something wrong with the other person's ears.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I agree with you "Responsibility falls to parents, not grandparents" .
Regards

It applies to both going off your post above that one. They are still part of the family. That is just modern day selfish independent thinking.

 

[McBell]

And who is the bully, God? Haha.

Your version of god is, yes.

So you prove he exists so you can stand up to him? Now there is logic.

Careful, your desperation is showing...

 

[McBell]

As ever, your comments are most illuminating, illuminating that you have nothing to offer, bar sarcasm.

It is not any fault of mine your posts do not elicit any thing better....

 

[Robert.Evans]

What gets me is the "Grandmothers use to help". He didn't say grandfathers, he said grandmothers.

Who is "he" ? We shall assume it is me. Yes grandmothers would help as grandfathers would probably be at work; that is traditional. I am not saying it is always that case though, so don't go off on a tangent.

The whole issue being discussed at the time was child support or the non-payment thereof.

which meant there would be a shortage of omney, hence I said why isn't the extended family helping and your reply was basically they can go to h*ll as I look after my own kids. That is no family imo.

Why should it fall to one parent and their mother to raise a child two created?

It shouldn't. Who is saying it should? You are reading that in perhaps?

Feminism hasn't destroyed the family unit, feminism has nothing to do with a deadbeat parent. If a man (or woman) walks out on their responsibilities it shouldn't be left to grandmothers to raise their grandchildren. And why does it always fall to the women with him? Newsflash, men are fully capable of raising their children too. I mean, sure, grandparents still help when they can and how they can if they can, but highlight on the word "if" please. People have their own problems to deal with as they get older. Some grandparents just may not be in any position to help. they shouldn't be expected to either. They didn't bring the child into the world, that would be its mother and father.

strong family units support one another. Not all old people can't help, which appears to be your excuse. It falls to the woman as it is primarily the woman that wants it to fall to her. Is this news to you or something or just some sort of insecurity?

From saying that "grandmothers use to help", to calling me "missy" and @JoStories "woman", to disagreeing with @A Greased Scotsman saying "Women do not lose or forsake their bodily autonomy when they become pregnant and they are not property or chattels for men to control as they please.

and what is wrong with missy or woman? Is this a personal issue or something? And just in case anyone is thinking it, I did not write that quote.

Pregnant women are not walking incubators with no rights or sense of self.

Oh boy... you sound insecure. Who on earth said that? no one. Discussions work best when you discuss what the other is said rather than rattle on about other things. We need to be constructive, Madam.

They're human beings with needs." (yes, Robert actually quoted that and simply said "disagree"),

link please.

to many other statements here and elsewhere on this forum, it is quite evident that Robert is extremely sexist.

well, they say it takes one to know one. So you are sxist also. Now, you will say you arn't, and so we can try and define another word. Either way, less attacks eh.

Dangerously so. Scarily so. Add into the equation his persistent need to try to establish abuse, when we are specifically discussing domestic abuse, as "most often not one sided", it sure sounds like he is trying to validate violence or blame the victim. Which is highly disturbing. This whole thread is highly disturbing now.

The one disturbing here is you misrepresenting me. Arguments are the most common form of abuse. If you wish to ignore that and speak of one singular form of abuse, something close to your own concerns, such as, a man beating a woman, then fine. But please don't try and make out that there are no other forms of abuse. There are, and I have quoted enough dictionaries to show that.
Calm down and start again please. This is silly.

 

[Robert.Evans]

No. See, Robert was claiming that abuse is "most often not one-sided" when we were speaking of domestic abuse. In other words, his argument was that it was rare that abuse went one way. However, in the case of domestic abuse, that simply isn't so. It overwhelmingly is usually a one-way thing, with an abuser and a victim. To state that abuse is "most often not one-sided", it sure comes across as him blaming the victim of abuse.

ad hominem

 

[Robert.Evans]

Wow...

link?

 

[Robert.Evans]

Indeed.

If you don't want to be seen as dishonest, we need to see the link to see if there was anything else in the post rather than trying to gang up on someone which is bullying. So please, link.

 

[paarsurrey]

It applies to both going off your post above that one. They are still part of the family. That is just modern day selfish independent thinking.

I agree that grandparents are family members and should be respected for their role in the family, yet they do it out of live and charity not as a responsibility. If grand mothers help, the same way the grand fathers should do it.
Regards

 

[savagewind]

Abuse means actions which HURT and not HELP.

That is why to be abuse it has to be habitual.

A picture for you.

Marriage is for building up each other in love.

But an abusive spouse does not build up his or her mate. An abusive spouse tears down his or her mate.

Ecclesiastes 4:9-10 ESV /
Two are better than one, because they have a good reward for their toil. For if they fall, one will lift up his fellow. But woe to him who is alone when he falls and has not another to lift him up!

But imagine the woe for the one who is torn down over and over and over again.

Ecclesiastes 4:9-10

 

[Robert.Evans]

I agree that grandparents are family members and should be respected for their role in the family, yet they do it out of live and charity not as a responsibility. If grand mothers help, the same way the grand fathers should do it.
Regards

Love would imply responsibility wouldn't it?
I am not saying that males don't help. But most times it is women, as they want it and are best at it. But the modern feminist way is to make men do it so they can go out and work. Then they don't have to look after the children. They want them, but don't want to look after them; nor let their parents, but rather dump them in a home somewhere as they don't want to look after them either. That is feminism. There is no way men can do it if they are at work. Of course, if all women want to take the breadwinners role on, then fine, let the men stop at home.

A shortage of time now means that the mother expects the man to do part of her traditional role. So the man has to do his and part of hers. That is the female insecurity and the lack of focus on the role and worth of the woman bringing up, no less, the human race, which apparently is of no importance anymore.

 

[Robert.Evans]

That is why to be abuse it has to be habitual.

A picture for you.

Marriage is for building up each other in love.

But an abusive spouse does not build up his or her mate. An abusive spouse tears down his or her mate.

Ecclesiastes 4:9-10 ESV /
Two are better than one, because they have a good reward for their toil. For if they fall, one will lift up his fellow. But woe to him who is alone when he falls and has not another to lift him up!

But imagine the woe for the one who is torn down over and over and over again.

Ecclesiastes 4:9-10

I like this post except- abuse does not have to be habitual. I don't why people don't know what this word means, I really don't.

 

[savagewind]

I like this post except- abuse does not have to be habitual. I don't why people don't know what this word means, I really don't.

It is because the off topic of abuse was introduced to the thread by a post about habitual domestic abuse. Catch up please.

 

[savagewind]

I like this post except- abuse does not have to be habitual. I don't why people don't know what this word means, I really don't.

I agree with you. I even have an example. Care to hear? If when driving over the speed limit you hit a wild animal that is abuse. OK?