Are these bible passages contradictory?

[Comprehend]

Are these bible passages contradictory? I have taken them from the KJV of the Bible and to me, the bible seems to be saying two things that cannot both be true. What do you think? I would like input from everyone and not just bible believing Christians..

Now you see him:

Genesis 17:1

AND when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I [am] the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Genesis 32:30
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Exodus3:6
Moreover he said, aI am the bGod of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was cafraid to dlook upon God.

Exodus 24:10-11
10 And they saw the God of Israel: and [there was] under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in [his] clearness.
11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

Exodus 33:11
And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

Deuteronomy 34:10
And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,

1 Kings 11:9
And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the LORD God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice,

John 6:46
Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Acts 7: 56
And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Now you don’t:

John 1:18

18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].
1 Jn 4:12
12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

so how can all of that be true. Has man seen God as the Bible says? or is it impossible to see God, as the Bible says?

For those who believe the Bible is the perfect word of God, how do you explain these scriptures? Which do you choose to believe, and which do you dismiss (if any)?

For those outside of Christianity, what do you think? Contradictory/No?

 

[astarath]

John 1:18 is in reference solely to Yaheshua it is stating that until the time of his coming none but the Lord had laid eyes upon him becuase Yahweh helb him at his breast.

1 John 4:12 this passage is indeed contradictory but i think solely due to the fact that this letter is John's personal attempt to grasp the concept of the infinite. He himself cannot not imagine seeing God but he has been taught by Yaheshua that God is love and love is in the hearts of all men. So though he can not see him John knows that God is in his heart with him. This writing was not God breathed word but maybe as you will John's first blog on the forum of the new testament. He called it 1John my thoughts concerning Yahweh and Yaheshua

 

[Comprehend]

John 1:18 is in reference solely to Yaheshua it is stating that until the time of his coming none but the Lord had laid eyes upon him becuase Yahweh helb him at his breast.

1 John 4:12 this passage is indeed contradictory but i think solely due to the fact that this letter is John's personal attempt to grasp the concept of the infinite. He himself cannot not imagine seeing God but he has been taught by Yaheshua that God is love and love is in the hearts of all men. So though he can not see him John knows that God is in his heart with him. This writing was not God breathed word but maybe as you will John's first blog on the forum of the new testament. He called it 1John my thoughts concerning Yahweh and Yaheshua

If God is in the hearts of all men, what do you make of all the scriptures that talk about people who have seen Him?

 

[astarath]

I indeed believe indeed that they have seen God. The two passages being questioned as contradictory however I felt to explain.John I do not believe has ever seen God save in the face of Yaheshua. But the others except Paul who have seen God, Noah, Jacob, Isaac, Moses, Adam these men truly knew God "face to face"

 

[Radio Frequency X]

What is this face to face stuff about? Doesn't this just sound like the superstitions of a people that lived 4,000 to 2,000 years ago? Do Christians still believe that people have actually sat down and talk to god face to face? Why doesn't it happen now?

 

[Mr. Hair]

Are these bible passages contradictory?

They might be. It would depend entirely on one's perspective.

Given, however, the evolving theology that is found within these scriptures, the different contexts in which they were written and the varied intentions of their authors, one shouldn't be too surprised should such inconsistencies crop up.

(It should also be noted that the bible states elsewhere that Abraham, Jacob and Moses most certainly did not see God)

 

[astarath]

It does happen now. There are people who live today who have seen the face of God. There is a large prophetics movement that holds many who have seen God. It is possible for us all to see God, as he is in the hearts of all of us he is seen every act of love and kindness, a small gesture of love and he is there for all to see. See 1john mentioned above in regards to John's inability to see god face to face but he finds him in the hearts of men.

 

[astarath]

They might be. It would depend entirely on one's perspective.

Given, however, the evolving theology that is found within these scriptures, the different contexts in which they were written and the varied intentions of their authors, one shouldn't be too surprised should such inconsistencies crop up.

(It should also be noted that the bible states elsewhere that Abraham, Jacob and Moses most certainly did not see God)

Where and by who does it state that they never saw God? certainly not in the To'rah can you quote the passage for me?

 

[Radio Frequency X]

It does happen now. There are people who live today who have seen the face of God. There is a large prophetics movement that holds many who have seen God. It is possible for us all to see God, as he is in the hearts of all of us he is seen every act of love and kindness, a small gesture of love and he is there for all to see. See 1john mentioned above in regards to John's inability to see god face to face but he finds him in the hearts of men.

For those that believe in the imminence of God, God can be seen in everything. Especially in expressions of beauty and love. But this is certainly not "face to face". Judaism tends toward a Transcendent image of God only. God rules over the world from the outside, he created the world, but he is not in it. Thus, to meet God face to face would be literal. He would have to manifest himself. Even in the image a Godman, the Transcendent God is manifest. Not in spirit, but literally manifest. God did not become imminent in the world, in the Jewish tradition, until Christ waved in the Holy Spirit, which was to be in the world and in us. The Transcendent God uses angels to do his work in the world, according to tradition. So, these face to face meetings were intended to be literal.

 

[astarath]

For those that believe in the imminence of God, God can be seen in everything. Especially in expressions of beauty and love. But this is certainly not "face to face". Judaism tends toward a Transcendent image of God only. God rules over the world from the outside, he created the world, but he is not in it. Thus, to meet God face to face would be literal. He would have to manifest himself. Even in the image a Godman, the Transcendent God is manifest. Not in spirit, but literally manifest. God did not become imminent in the world, in the Jewish tradition, until Christ waved in the Holy Spirit, which was to be in the world and in us. The Transcendent God uses angels to do his work in the world, according to tradition. So, these face to face meetings were intended to be literal.

To the contrary in the beginning God was indeed transcendent he held an image to which the founding fathers of the Abrahamic Faith walked, talked, and debated with.
Adam, Isaac, Jacob and Abraham all were men of astounding faith in a time when Yahweh was know to a few and followed devoutly be even less people. Their adherence and devotion to God's will not only profited their souls but Yahweh was so pleased with these men he spoke to them face to face and promised them a nation of their own.

 

[RevOxley_501]

Are these bible passages contradictory? I have taken them from the KJV of the Bible and to me, the bible seems to be saying two things that cannot both be true. What do you think? I would like input from everyone and not just bible believing Christians..

Now you see him:




Now you don’t:



so how can all of that be true. Has man seen God as the Bible says? or is it impossible to see God, as the Bible says?

For those who believe the Bible is the perfect word of God, how do you explain these scriptures? Which do you choose to believe, and which do you dismiss (if any)?

For those outside of Christianity, what do you think? Contradictory/No?

yes, most definately

 

[astarath]

yes, most definately

on both points? and if they are contradictory one bears truth the other not? where do you stand? the sight of god being truth or the contradiction?

 

[Booko]

If you read the Bible like a science text, yes it's contradictory.

If you read it like the literary work it is, it is not necessarily contradictory. Further looking at the text would be required, as there are other passages concerning the nature of God that might reveal whether this is a contradiction or just a use of imagery.

 

[astarath]

i find the bible itself is not contradictory as long as you remove the teachings of the Paul the Liar, and the personal thoughts and letters following the gospels, if so could you point one out to me?

 

[lunamoth]

I think Jesus and Paul taught exactly the same Gospel with respect to the law. The law is given for man, not man for the law; follow the spirit of the law: Love.

 

[lunamoth]

I think Jesus and Paul taught exactly the same Gospel with respect to the law. The law is given for man, not man for the law; follow the spirit of the law: Love.

Oops, I see I missed addressing the OP.

God is both immanent and trascendent; as Booko said, it's only contradictory if you try to read it like a science text.

 

[astarath]

i disagree entirely lunamoth refer to thread paul a liar fake or apostle for details on the subject or merely read matt 5:17-19 then read galatians totally contradictory teachings

 

[lunamoth]

i disagree entirely lunamoth refer to thread paul a liar fake or apostle for details on the subject or merely read matt 5:17-19 then read galatians totally contradictory teachings

Hi astarath, Yes, I saw your thread and I've read all of Paul's Epistles and all the of the Gospels quite thoroughly and prayerfully. I know there are some who have a big problem with Paul, but I am not one of them. You also might want to keep in mind that while you are welcome to your own conclusions and beliefs...you might be wrong.

 

[astarath]

Interestingly enough I to as a brother of God have read quite prayerfully through the NT it has been my life's focus these past 5 years and in the whole bible a find a flow and peace but only when i come to Romans does that feeling change. Yaheshua warned us against the yeast of the pharisee's to be on guard to wolves in sheeps clothing to question and know the value of the person by the fruit they bear and Paul is a obvious flag to all of these warnings.

 

[lunamoth]

Interestingly enough I to as a brother of God have read quite prayerfully through the NT it has been my life's focus these past 5 years and in the whole bible a find a flow and peace but only when i come to Romans does that feeling change. Yaheshua warned us against the yeast of the pharisee's to be on guard to wolves in sheeps clothing to question and know the value of the person by the fruit they bear and Paul is a obvious flag to all of these warnings.

Hi astarath, Well, I disagree with your assessment of Paul and Romans, but if your path is leading you Love God and neighbor then more power to you! Best wishes, luna