Are Vegans better for the environment than meat eaters?

[Madhuri]

Ohhh, you're saying that in order to get those chooks in the first place, you are supporting an industry that will have to kill a lot of roosters?

 

[Bunyip]

I don't think it's such a bad thing to keep your own chooks that lay unfertilised eggs. You aren't killing anything at all. My mum is going to get her own chooks. There will be no killing involved.

But in order for you to have female chickens that lay eggs, 50% must be killed - the cocks. When your layers die of old age, you will need new ones, and the new hatchlings will be half male and are then killed.

I don't think it is a bad thing either - I have chooks.

 

[Madhuri]

But in order for you to have female chickens that lay eggs, 50% must be killed - the cocks. When your layers die of old age, you will need new ones, and the new hatchlings will be half male and are then killed.

That's a good point. I'm very new to egg eating and hadn't considered this previously. Since it's so rare for me to eat eggs and I think they taste horrible and are essentially a chicken's period... I think I can easily remove it from my diet.

 

[Bunyip]

That's a good point. I'm very new to egg eating and hadn't considered this previously. Since it's so rare for me to eat eggs and I think they taste horrible and are essentially a chicken's period... I think I can easily remove it from my diet.

Nooooooooooo.........eggs are awesome. Fish eggs particularly. I meant no criticism.

 

[Madhuri]

Nooooooooooo.........eggs are awesome. Fish eggs particularly. I meant no criticism.

Lol. I think eggs are better than eating meat, ethically speaking. But I think they taste terrible. I can only eat it hard boiled and mixed with other food so I can't taste it

 

[Bunyip]

Lol. I think eggs are better than eating meat, ethically speaking. But I think they taste terrible. I can only eat it hard boiled and mixed with other food so I can't taste it

How is it more ethical?

And more importantly - why eat it if you don't like it?

 

[Estro Felino]

And what happens to the male calves? And where is all this pastureland for dairy cattle going to come from, when it's being cleared to plant vegetables? I'd also wager that the dairy production of all of Europe doesn't come anywhere near that of the US.

The 75 % of our milk production comes from the Alps. When the Alps are snowy, they import the grass from the South, in Winter. When in the South the fields are dried out, they import the grass from the Alps.
Have you ever seen the Alps in Summer? Large limitless fields of grass

as for the male cattles...well...most of them will be butchered. But with practices that respect their dignity

 

[Madhuri]

How is it more ethical?

And more importantly - why eat it if you don't like it?

I'll clarify that what I'm arguing for here is eggs that come from home owned chickens, not the egg industry, which is truly awful.
Having your own animals or buying the products from a farm that treats animals ethically is fine by me. In such cases, the eggs and milk that you can get are not hurting the animals. If you can find a way to do this, it's obviously more ethical than supporting the meat industry. But when we compare the egg and dairy industry to the meat industry, they are pretty much as bad as each other.

Eating meat always means killing the animal, and because a young animal tastes better than an old one, they are generally killed quite young.

I started eating eggs every now and then because I've had some health issues and been put on a very strict diet. That diet took out almost all of my plant protein sources so I forced myself to have an egg every now and then. I've just gone off the diet though so I should be fine.

Whats you're opinion on the comparison? Do you think eating eggs is just as ethical/unethical?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Since it's so rare for me to eat eggs and I think they taste horrible and are essentially a chicken's period... I think I can easily remove it from my diet.

Same here. I just kind of went off eggs when I looked at them closely.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Do you think eating eggs is just as ethical/unethical?

I think it partly depends on the conditions in which the chickens are kept.

 

[Bunyip]

I'll clarify that what I'm arguing for here is eggs that come from home owned chickens, not the egg industry, which is truly awful.
Having your own animals or buying the products from a farm that treats animals ethically is fine by me. In such cases, the eggs and milk that you can get are not hurting the animals. If you can find a way to do this, it's obviously more ethical than supporting the meat industry. But when we compare the egg and dairy industry to the meat industry, they are pretty much as bad as each other.

Eating meat always means killing the animal, and because a young animal tastes better than an old one, they are generally killed quite young.

I started eating eggs every now and then because I've had some health issues and been put on a very strict diet. That diet took out almost all of my plant protein sources so I forced myself to have an egg every now and then. I've just gone off the diet though so I should be fine.

Whats you're opinion on the comparison? Do you think eating eggs is just as ethical/unethical?

I guess my position is that it is HOW these industries work that is the problem, not the consumption of animal products per se. I see no ethical problem with my painlessly killing a rabbit or a fish for example. And if you weigh animals versus plants in terms of the ethics of killing them - I just don't think it really works. How about the relative moral evil of killijg a prawn, compared to felling a 500 year old oak? Distinguishing just between animals and plants ethically seems pretty arbitrary.

As tomeggs versu meat ethically - eggs are meat.

 

[Estro Felino]

I think it partly depends on the conditions in which the chickens are kept.

Exactly. But that is due to the high demand of eggs at a cheap cost, which is the result of human overpopulation. large farms where chickens are free to move are not expensive at all.
examples. This is awful:

This is already more acceptable.

 

[Madhuri]

I guess my position is that it is HOW these industries work that is the problem, not the consumption of animal products per se. I see no ethical problem with my painlessly killing a rabbit or a fish for example. And if you weigh animals versus plants in terms of the ethics of killing them - I just don't think it really works. How about the relative moral evil of killijg a prawn, compared to felling a 500 year old oak? Distinguishing just between animals and plants ethically seems pretty arbitrary.

As tomeggs versu meat ethically - eggs are meat.

Morality isn't black and white, so how we perceive the moral difference is very much a personal thing.
I personally will always try to cause less harm to the entity that is likely to experience more suffering. But there are so many factors. I tend to be utilitarian. Every example we discuss could conclude differently.

You're right, eggs are meat even if eggs are culturally considered to be an acceptable part of a vegetarian diet. But you know what I meant; non-fertilised eggs vs killing an animal to eat it.

PS: How do you painlessly kill a fish?

 

[Bunyip]

Morality isn't black and white, so how we perceive the moral difference is very much a personal thing.
I personally will always try to cause less harm to the entity that is likely to experience more suffering. But there are so many factors. I tend to be utilitarian. Every example we discuss could conclude differently.

You're right, eggs are meat even if eggs are culturally considered to be an acceptable part of a vegetarian diet. But you know what I meant; non-fertilised eggs vs killing an animal to eat it.

PS: How do you painlessly kill a fish?

You push a spike into it's brain. Fish do not have pain receptors as we do - they are scaled. How would you weigh a prawn for example against a pumpkin in terms of its right to life? I am unsure. But yes, I agree with you it is not black and white - and grey areas are so damn interesting.

 

[Bunyip]

Madhuri
Sorry, I missed your question - unfertilised egg is meat, exactly the same as killing an animal. But that is just to me. I am not suggesting anyone else should agree.

 

[Madhuri]

Madhuri
Sorry, I missed your question - unfertilised egg is meat, exactly the same as killing an animal. But that is just to me. I am not suggesting anyone else should agree.

But you aren't killing an animal to eat the egg. It's basically a waste product. How is that the same, morally speaking?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I wouldn't mind having a chicken as a pet, I think they're rather cute.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

But in order for you to have female chickens that lay eggs, 50% must be killed - the cocks. When your layers die of old age, you will need new ones, and the new hatchlings will be half male and are then killed.

That's not necessarily true. It's very easy to get eggs without having to kill any chickens. It can mean some will die, but if a local farmer or family is producing their own meat there is nothing really bad about what they are doing. Life feeds on life. The living must die so that the living can live.

Definitely not vegan here, but I don't anticipate having kids ever, so I think I win in the not hurting the environment anymore contest.

Yes, we definitely win when it comes to that. If anyone is receives credit for doing a part for helping the environment, it should be those who do not add to the problem of overpopulation. Rather than being questioned, ridiculed, assumed to be depressed (and other things) because we don't have kids, PETA and Sierra Club should kiss our rears because even a life with a moderate-but-not-modest environmental impact and not having kids will add less overall consumption and carbon pollution than an environmentally conservative life with kids. Really, what we're doing is having a far greater impact than anyone else. And if more of us didn't reproduce, it would be much better for the earth than endless political bickering and rampant consumption over how to fix something that will be meaningless if there are too many of us.

 

[McBell]

178 posts and no one can explain how they are measuring anything?

Seems this is nothing more than a rant fest.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I had quorn sausages for tea and they were very tasty.