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Are We Really Doomed?

sonofskeptish

It is what it is
Is anyone else scared? Really, really scared? Not just for themselves and their families but for the human species as a whole? Does anyone else think the human species is currently facing the single, biggest threat to its existence that it has ever faced? Does anyone else think most of us are oblivious to the threat which is upon us, while others are blindly and actively contributing to the current collision course with extinction we are on?

The threat I speak of is religion.

In particular, the fundamentalist and extremist elements within the worlds Abrahamic religions. While moderates within these groups claim these radicals do not represent their faiths, the radicals claim they do, and they are focused on the goal of imposing their oppressive religious beliefs on the rest of the world, and destroying those of us who will not submit.

While radical Islam is IMO currently the biggest threat, the problem is not inherent to Islam, nor is it specifically rooted in fundamentalist or extremist beliefs. The real cause of the problem is our willingness to make our religious beliefs exempt from rational, critical-thinking.

We are somehow able to discount the ridiculous religious beliefs of others, yet make our own beliefs exempt from the same level of skepticism we apply to theirs. We are able to use rational, common sense in believing almost all other things we believe, with one exception... our belief in a personal, biblical God as worshipped by the worlds Abrahamic religions.

In the days of spears, swords, cannons and muskets, many a great civilization has been destroyed by foreign invaders and religious crusaders representing various faith groups. Each army was fueled by blind belief in their God, and their feeling of superiority over their enemy and their assertion of a right to impose their religion on others.

Many a horrific deed was done in God’s name in the past, but geographic isolation and limited weaponry made the impact of the fall of civilization in one part of the world, insignificant to civilization in another part of the world.

Times have changed.

While attempts to conquer, overthrown and control each other continue, along with claims to be doing God’s work, we are no longer separate civilizations, and weapons of mass destruction ensure that what happens on our planet now happens to all of us together.

In the days of the cold war, the madness of Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) kept somewhat rational individuals from pushing the launch button for fear of reprisal by their counterpart, resulting in joint annihilation.

While this may have worked in the past, when combined with today’s ongoing religious beliefs that require the suspension of reality, and which are fueled by a need for the existence of an afterlife, the result is deadly, as witnessed on 9/11 and in countless suicide bomb attacks in Afghanistan and Iraq since then.

While moderates from all religions remain in denial and claim “this is not us”, to the non-believers among us it all looks the same... a suspension of rational thought and free-thinking regarding God and religion resulting in insane beliefs, and sometimes insane horrific acts.

Bottom line, while moderate groups insist on their rights to suspend rational thought for the sake of preserving their need to believe, we will always have those who will use this same vehicle to justify violence, and now to invoke a Nuclear Holocaust.

My belief is that unless addressed, this situation will almost certainly lead to a self-fulfilling End of Days scenario, and bottom line, if the religious moderates are not willing to move towards rational-thinking, then we are all doomed.

Everyone’s thoughts welcomed.

(Inspired by “Letter to a Christian Nation” by Sam Harris)
 

johnhanks

Well-Known Member
Remember that Dostoevsky quote, "Without God everything is permitted"? Dostoevsky (or rather his character) had it exactly backwards: it's with God that you are able to believe that any action, however atrocious prima facie, is permissible. All of the genocides in the OT are recorded proudly and self-righteously, even the slaughter of children, because the authors believed God had sanctioned them.

Right up to the present time, I think this has been one of religion's pragmatic functions in human societies: when it has been expedient to undertake an action that would in normal circumstances be reprehensible and forbidden, 'God wants me to do it' has been a convenient silencer of critics and of conscience. (In ostensibly godless societies, 'For the good of the Party' or its equivalent has acted as an effective substitute.)

And you're right: for most of history the appalling consequences of this willingness to quell conscience by invoking the will of a believed-in higher authority have been purely local. I suppose 9/11 was the harbinger of its globalisation; time will tell where it leads us.
 

Man of Faith

Well-Known Member
No, I'm not afraid or scared, my faith gives me comfort and hope. I believe that God is in control and will live up to his promises. The promise that the world will continue until he gets back and the promise that I will one day be in a land of no troubles.
 

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
Yes we are doomed, small pink furry guppies are going to invade us in 2012
People have been waiting and predicting the end of days for millenia
One day they'll be right, but I doubt it will be in my life time.
 

sonofskeptish

It is what it is
No, I'm not afraid or scared, my faith gives me comfort and hope. I believe that God is in control and will live up to his promises. The promise that the world will continue until he gets back and the promise that I will one day be in a land of no troubles.

Would you agree that your lack of fear is the direct result of your belief that you and a chosen few will go to heaven (the land with no troubles) and the rest of the world's sinners (the vast majority of us who did not back the right horse) will burn in hell?
 

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
Would you agree that your lack of fear is the direct result of your belief that you and a chosen few will go to heaven (the land with no troubles) and the rest of the world's sinners (the vast majority of us who did not back the right horse) will burn in hell?

would you agree that your cliched questions are a result of not actually looking very deep at religion as a whole and simply dismissing it?

Or do you find such questions and threads to articulate the very heart of the religious experience of others, and thus a very important issue?

..............

Hitler becomes Kalki
Kalki becomes Hitler
The white horse and red horse
Christ twists on the cross
Hitler smiles in the guttering rubble
He brings not peace but a sword
But maybe the ocean roars immaculate
Maybe the stars fall incomprehensible
Oh these all tell me
Oh these all spell to me
Hitler as Kalki
Kalki as Hitler

--Hitler As Kalki (Current 93)
 
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Man of Faith

Well-Known Member
Would you agree that your lack of fear is the direct result of your belief that you and a chosen few will go to heaven (the land with no troubles) and the rest of the world's sinners (the vast majority of us who did not back the right horse) will burn in hell?

Yes, my lack of fear is a direct result of my beliefs. If I didn't have it I would be terrified of what man can do to me.
 

Erebus

Well-Known Member
Humanity won't last for ever, perhaps a nuclear war is one of the more painless ways for us to go.
 

John D

Spiritsurfer
Would you agree that your lack of fear is the direct result of your belief that you and a chosen few will go to heaven (the land with no troubles) and the rest of the world's sinners (the vast majority of us who did not back the right horse) will burn in hell?
You exclude yourself from "chosen few ".
Why would you do that. You don't need to life in fear.
Religion can be apoisen and a can't help to notice that a lot af people defend their "non - religious religion" with more fire than the very people you are so very afraid of.
Don't worry , maybe it won't hurt that much.

 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
Human beings are going to go extinct, one way or another, at some point. In relation to the vast expanse of cosmic time, our existence as a species will be nothing more than a brief blip on speck of dust.

So, no, not really.
 

sonofskeptish

It is what it is
Human beings are going to go extinct, one way or another, at some point. In relation to the vast expanse of cosmic time, our existence as a species will be nothing more than a brief blip on speck of dust.

So, no, not really.

Yup, I would agree. But I think it would be a shame if it was a self-inflicted extinction in our split second of time.
 

TechTed

Member
People will be blowing themselves and others to pieces for one cause or another for the foreseable future, whether you eliminate radical extremism or not. All part of the wonderful "human condition". If we were to ever cause our own extinction, you can simply blame human nature.

If there is something to be worried about, it is human nature not evolving quickly enough to prevent our own suicide.
 

Skeptisch

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by atotalstranger
Human beings are going to go extinct, one way or another, at some point. In relation to the vast expanse of cosmic time, our existence as a species will be nothing more than a brief blip on speck of dust.

Comment by sonofskeptish
Yup, I would agree. But I think it would be a shame if it was a self-inflicted extinction in our split second of time.
This guy has it about right:

“Since the early 1900s, world population has multiplied by 4 and the economy -- human load on nature -- by more than 40. We have reached the stage at which we must bring the experiment [that of a species shaped more by its own culture than by nature] under rational control, and guard against present and potential dangers. It's entirely up to us. If we fail -- if we blow up or degrade the biosphere so it can no longer sustain us -- nature will merely shrug and conclude that letting apes run the laboratory was fun for a while but in the end a bad idea”.

Ronald Wright in “A Short History Of Progress”.
 

Skeptisch

Well-Known Member
At the end of the book, Wright quotes from Margaret Atwood's “Oryx and Crake”:

“One of her characters asks, "As a species we're doomed by hope, then?" By hope? Well, yes. Hope drives us to invent new fixes for old messes, which in turn create ever more dangerous messes. Hope elects the politician with the biggest empty promise; and as any stockbroker or lottery seller knows, most of us will take a slim hope over prudent and predictable frugality. Hope, like greed, fuels the engine of capitalism”.
 

sonofskeptish

It is what it is

This guy has it about right:

“Since the early 1900s, world population has multiplied by 4 and the economy -- human load on nature -- by more than 40. We have reached the stage at which we must bring the experiment [that of a species shaped more by its own culture than by nature] under rational control, and guard against present and potential dangers. It's entirely up to us. If we fail -- if we blow up or degrade the biosphere so it can no longer sustain us -- nature will merely shrug and conclude that letting apes run the laboratory was fun for a while but in the end a bad idea”.

Ronald Wright in “A Short History Of Progress”.

Skep, are you suggesting we are doomed, but that there is no relationship or greater threat due to faith?
 

logician

Well-Known Member
Human beings are going to go extinct, one way or another, at some point. In relation to the vast expanse of cosmic time, our existence as a species will be nothing more than a brief blip on speck of dust.

So, no, not really.

WE could actually take steps to prevent this, like begin the colonization of our galaxy, but I agree this is unlikely given our propensity to ignore long-term planning.
 

Skeptisch

Well-Known Member
Skep, are you suggesting we are doomed, but that there is no relationship or greater threat due to faith?
Yes we are doomed, it is just a matter of when and how. The expanding sun will engulf earth in the very distant future but blind faith may help destroy our “Pale Blue Dot” within decades. Just wait until one of those blind faith guys straps a biological agent to his explosive belt.

You mention that “Letter to a Christian Nation” by Sam Harris inspired you to ask “Are We Really Doomed”? Sam Harris is one of the four horsemen who is ringing the alarm bell about blind faith. The others are Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett and Christopher Hitchens.

“My last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and choking dust of September 11th 2001, followed by the "National Day of Prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous Martin Luther King impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the first place.”
-- Richard Dawkins, The Devil's Chaplain (2004)
 

Skeptisch

Well-Known Member
We could actually take steps to prevent this, like begin the colonization of our galaxy, but I agree this is unlikely given our propensity to ignore long-term planning.
Going beyond our solar system might be a little too optimistic but Mars and Jupiter’s moon Europe, are within reach. We just have to make sure we body scan the astronauts and passengers thoroughly.)(
 
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