Are you an atheist? if so, What is your POV about God?

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Fair enough. I guess you're right. I don't believe the Bible simply because of the testimony written in it. I believed it because it felt true to me. It could be all false.

As could everything I say.

How we arrive at that "it felt true to me" is in then end what it's all about. Do you go with the actual evidence that you can perceive every day of your life, or do you accept that your feelings are the only real thing? I look outward. Your perspective may be different.

 

[Sonofason]

As could everything I say.

How we arrive at that "it felt true to me" is in then end what it's all about. Do you go with the actual evidence that you can perceive every day of your life, or do you accept that your feelings are the only real thing? I look outward. Your perspective may be different.

My experiences are real to me. If I feel sad, I know I am sad. If I feel happy, I am quite certain I am happy. If I see a rock, I am sure I've seen a rock. If I feel the Holy Spirit, I am quite sure I've felt the Holy Spirit. If I were to ever hear the voice of God, I would know it.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Why do you not consider a person's testimony as evidence?

It's evidence, but it's not convincing evidence. Couple of things are at play in that assertion;

1) I've heard people make various supernatural claims, particularly when I was living in PNG. I haven't personally witnessed any evidence of these. So my position on all such claims is to start from a position of scepticism.

2) As a student of history, I'm well aware of the non-literal nature of any 'histories' written so long ago. The concept of factual and considered documentation of events simply didn't exist to any meaningful degree.

Putting those together means I would never find the Bible's evidence compelling, regardless of it's accuracy.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Yes you are so very right. They are muddled to prevent the faithless from understanding. Which is why I say you lack discernment. You see, discernment is a gift from the Holy Spirit, which you do not have in you. Thus, it would be impossible for you to have it. It is very likely that you never will have it. And, I'm okay with that.

Anybody see the terrible, egotistical, triumphal -- excessively un-Christ-like -- smugness in that?;

As Gandhi said, "I like your Christ, it is your Christians I do not like." Or as Shylock, "Father Abraham, what these Christians are!"

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

My experiences are real to me. If I feel sad, I know I am sad. If I feel happy, I am quite certain I am happy. If I see a rock, I am sure I've seen a rock. If I feel the Holy Spirit, I am quite sure I've felt the Holy Spirit. If I were to ever hear the voice of God, I would know it.

Then you might want to look up things like anosognosia, or any of the other ways in which it is well-known that our own brains can completely mislead us. Dr. Oliver Sacks (died just this year, actually, and the neuroscientist featured in the film Awakenings with Robin Williams. You would be hugely surprised by just how easily our human brain can be completely bamboozled. So "real to me" is something I hear claimed frequently, but it is usually not enough to exonerate the woman accused of drowning her children because "Satan told me to, and it was real to me."

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Yes you are so very right. They are muddled to prevent the faithless from understanding. Which is why I say you lack discernment. You see, discernment is a gift from the Holy Spirit, which you do not have in you. Thus, it would be impossible for you to have it. It is very likely that you never will have it. And, I'm okay with that.

Is this REALLY how Christians see God? That, as @Sonofason says, if somebody doesn't start from a position of "belief" the "Holy Spirit" will muddle everything so that they'll never be able to "discern?" Is this some kind of evil God game? Was King Lear right when he said: "As flies to wanton boys are we to th' gods. They kill us for their sport?"

 

[Sonofason]

Is this REALLY how Christians see God? That, as @Sonofason says, if somebody doesn't start from a position of "belief" the "Holy Spirit" will muddle everything so that they'll never be able to "discern?" Is this some kind of evil God game? Was King Lear right when he said: "As flies to wanton boys are we to th' gods. They kill us for their sport?"

God has tried to reach you, and you rejected Him. There is sufficient evidence of God all around you...and you reject it. You reject Him. Yes, that's the way it is. That stuff gets people in Hell, but you'll find out all about that soon.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

God has tried to reach you, and you rejected Him. There is sufficient evidence of God all around you...and you reject it. You reject Him. Yes, that's the way it is. That stuff gets people in Hell, but you'll find out all about that soon.

Thing is, he doesn't need to muddle his message. Were he to clearly state that he is in fact omnipotent, onnipresent and omnibenevolent I still wouldn't worship him. But whatevs. He can be mysterious if he wants to be.

 

[Segev Moran]

I'll leave medicine to the professionals.

Me too Yet disapproval is how medical diagnosis works a lot of times.

 

[Shad]

Then take it up with YouTube not me... just write jesus in india youtube in google and go to the youtube page. I never said it was from BBC myself.

Sorry if I came across as criticizing you. I was attempting to show what the actual source was so people can look the flaws in the documentary instead of taking it as evidence of a nonsensical claim

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

My experiences are real to me. If I feel sad, I know I am sad. If I feel happy, I am quite certain I am happy. If I see a rock, I am sure I've seen a rock. If I feel the Holy Spirit, I am quite sure I've felt the Holy Spirit. If I were to ever hear the voice of God, I would know it.

You can buy very realistic-looking plastic rocks. Some of them have a little hole to hide a spare key.

How is it that you're sure you felt the Holy Spirit?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So "real to me" is something I hear claimed frequently, but it is usually not enough to exonerate the woman accused of drowning her children because "Satan told me to, and it was real to me."

If you're talking about cases like Andrea Yates: if we take some very mainstream Christian doctrines as given, her crime is very logical and selfless. There are literally millions of Christians who would agree that by killing her children before they reached the "age of reason", she guaranteed that they would go to Heaven and that they would be saved them from the possibility that they'd go to Hell.

... which, IMO, speaks to some seriously messed up stuff in Christianity.

 

[Segev Moran]

Okay so you are hopeful there is life on Mars...okay. We'll see.

I Can't say that I am hopeful, But I think it will be one of the greatest discoveries we have made so far.
Besides that, It will be very interesting hearing how it was Gods intention to create life on other planets too and that the bible is not really about earth but it represents all planets LOL

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

God has tried to reach you, and you rejected Him. There is sufficient evidence of God all around you...and you reject it. You reject Him. Yes, that's the way it is. That stuff gets people in Hell, but you'll find out all about that soon.

You appear to be

1. speaking for God (you say he has tried to reach me),
2. Speaking for me (I rejected him),
3. Speaking for science (everything around me is explainable without god),
4. Speaking for God (again, since you just condemned me to Hell),
5. And finally, confirming my own opinion about Christian ideas of God -- which is a monstrous evil that will mete out infinite punishments for trivial things like not believing what isn't obvious.

I do not "reject" anything at all, except possibly this very unlikable trait of so many religious persons to presume so much while pretending to love that very fellow who told you not to judge. 'Twas ever thus.

 

[ArtieE]

Another issue imo is, to be frank, a misunderstanding of what exactly is meant when distinguishing between strong atheism and weak atheism. A strong atheist asserts the belief that no gods exist. A strong atheist is absolutely convinced that no gods exist with 100% certainty.

No he isn't. He believes gods don't exist. A gnostic atheist (or gnostic strong atheist) knows with 100% certainty. That's the whole point of writing gnostic in front you see.

An agnostic atheist by contrast is someone who lacks belief in gods but also believes this position cannot possibly be known for certain.

No he doesn't necessarily believe it can't possibly be known. He just doesn't know.

The rest you have pretty much gotten right.

 

[ArtieE]

The term strong atheist has taken on a few meanings, I've found. Though very rare, I have in fact encountered a couple of people in my time whom I would label as strong atheists because they have asserted zero chance of gods existing whatsoever.

Those would be gnostic atheists.

I have long thought of this as the defined distinction between strong and weak atheism

It isn't. The distinction is that a weak atheist has an absence of belief in gods while a strong atheist has a belief gods don't exist. If the belief that gods don't exist grows to 100% conviction we call him a gnostic atheist.

 

[ArtieE]

And what sort of evidence would that be? All we have is words written by the people who claim to have seen Jesus perform miraculous things.

Who? Please read: https://askanatheist.wordpress.com/2010/10/31/334/

 

[ArtieE]

If I were to ever hear the voice of God, I would know it.

"All those who say “God told me,” are dangerous." ... "The ubiquitous rabble of “God told me” that we keep hearing so much in America, is both extremely evil and dangerous. If you really believe that God is talking to you, then you esteem yourself a prophet, one who has a salvation that cannot be taken away. With this mindset one could commit all sorts of evils, and think nothing of it because God is with them, they are a “prophet,” a mouthpiece for God."
http://shoebat.com/2015/08/12/all-t...-home-in-houston-takes-an-entire-family-of-e/

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There is sufficient evidence of God all around you...and you reject it.

Can you give one example of a piece of evidence for God that's "all around us" and explain how it implies that God exists?

 

[viole]

Knowing that superman is a fictional character that was created by a person that we can all identify, who has never claimed that superman was anything more than a fictional character he made up, a character that no person on the planet believes is real, nor would ever consider him to be real, the probability that superman is actually ruling a planet in our galaxy is a big fat Zero.

And God is not a fictional character?

Ciao

- viole