Are you Certain There is no God?

[osgart]

And who on earth is AlphaGo?

ciao

- viole

That's the artificial intelligence from Deepmind. It far surpasses human ability to play the game Go. AlphaZero far surpasses human ability in playing chess. Deepmind is currently working to diagnose problems with diseases.

 

[Sandra Jayne]

Wow. What's the resolution of your telescope?

Well, no-one said what size the teapot was, I find that kind of argument facetious rhetoric so my answer was 'tongue in cheek'. I would need the Hubble telescope to see a small teapot, wondered if anyone would pick up on it, well done.

 

[Love God]

It is a law that makes it impossible for 1 hour old human embryos to develop into full complex human adults

Again, my suggestion is that you keep clear from such things, if you do not want to embarras yourself. Unless you have more knowledge than the guys in Answers in Genesis have. Which is basically equal to zero.


Very simple. We assume He does not intervene, and everything works perfectly fine. I would say that science is so successful exactly because its epistemology refutes supernatural intervention. In other words, assuming He does not exist, or He is irrelevant, is what makes science successful.

now, what would a rational person conclude about the importance of God in our assumptions about the world?

ciao

- viole

Which writer of which ‘standard biology books’ should I read?

Let me ask you this:
Where did the writers of the biology books get their truths?
How does science, or physics, or math prove that God does not exist?

The problem with really smart people is that they like to come at less smart people and lord over them.
Talking down to a fellow human being just out there trying to get understanding the best that they can...

When really smart people come to the conclusion that their smarts are what makes them superior, they tend to lose touch with humility.

...a bunch of little gods that think they are above being scrutinized...

But God says to prove him. He welcomes all questions. Even the less smart people’s questions.

I questioned evolution as a youngster in school, not understanding where nothing came from...?
If I give you nothing, and you add nothing to it, you wind up with nothing.
0+0=0
(I bet any 5 year old would appreciate receiving nothing for his birthday... and then explain to him that the WHOLE universe came from nothing! So he should shut up about nothing and be satisfied with nothing!)

I am like that 5 year old. Where did this all come from. Where is my gift!

I am smart enough to know nothing means nothing. That ‘random’ isn’t a product of nothing. That nothing doesn’t explain matter. Or how we got here...

The longer I am saved by Jesus, the more I see clearly.
When the bible says all people lie, guess what, I haven’t met a non liar yet.
O. And stealing. Go steal that 5 year old’s favorite toy... see how he reacts.

The problem is not science. Or physics. Or math.
The problem is final authority. That little moral compass that guides people through life (or not).
Who decides what is bad and wrong or good and right.

Who is the final authority on morals...

If one does away with God, that pesky One True God, then one can choose to ignore the moral compass and go do ‘their own thing’.

Sin is the real problem.

Joy

“I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭45:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Peter Stanley]

I don't deny a God but with people making discoveries all the time. I can't believe in the current theology.
Example God created a universe for the soul purpose of man and man alone when we actually live a minute existence in the universe - mankind in general has lived a minute existence in the universe we are actually insignificant in the big picture - so time pasted for billions of years for the existence of man only - sorry I just can't believe that.
The premise God has a plan for everyone's life and is intervening all the time - yet at the same time claim life is free will. Which one is it?
I was going to post more but people will get angry if I question anything too deeply. At least that's my experience.

 

[Dave Watchman]

I don't deny a God but with people making discoveries all the time. I can't believe in the current theology.
Example God created a universe for the soul purpose of man and man alone when we actually live a minute existence in the universe - mankind in general has lived a minute existence in the universe we are actually insignificant in the big picture - so time pasted for billions of years for the existence of man only - sorry I just can't believe that.
The premise God has a plan for everyone's life and is intervening all the time - yet at the same time claim life is free will. Which one is it?
I was going to post more but people will get angry if I question anything too deeply. At least that's my experience.

I don't think God created a universe for the "soul purpose of man and man alone".

God did the big bang so that He could interact with members of His Creation in a physical world.

Remember how the Legion demons didn't want Jesus to cast them out of the man and into a formless void?

They would find it preferable to be put into a herd of pigs.

God is doing something big, it's bigger than the "soul purpose of man and man alone".

There's also billions of angelic beings and an individual known as Satan who is being addressed right now.

It's not all about us, we are just a part of it.

Caught up in the Devil's bargain.

One Devil, one Earth.

Welcome to the forum.

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[Audie]

I am certain there is no good reason for me to believe in God.

Why?
I see no reason to believe anything in the Bible.
I see no reason to believe that God communicates to us either individually or through messengers.

One can of course choose to believe otherwise but there is no argument or evidence which compels one to make either choice. Right?

The choice to believe in these things, like the Bible is purely arbitrary.
Why I don't believe is the same reason I don't believe Harry Potter is anything more than a fictional character, I've no reason to.

Do you feel compelled to believe in God?
Do you feel belief is necessary?

I don't see it but perhaps you can explain it.

"Choose to believe" is just another term
for self deception.

 

[Audie]

I believe the Bible because the prophecies in the Bible came true. Isaiah 52:13 and Isaiah 53: 12 say that the Messiah will be highly exalted but first will suffer terribly. He will actually be disfigured in his suffering. The narrative says that the people of Israel didn't get it. They thought he was suffering for his own sins and wickedness; they didn't realize he was bearing their sins, suffering on their behalf, and by his wounds there was healing for them.

And the things that clearly are not true, those get a pass?

 

[Audie]

This doesn't equate to anything I am thinking. Nor does it relate to what I wrote.

A puddle does not exhibit purpose. Nor do I find that humans are exceptionally special.

I could turn this around and say that an atheist finds nothing sacred or meaningful about life and rather finds that everything is insignificant.

You could so turn it but are you into calumny and falsehood?

 

[janesix]

I am certain there is no good reason for me to believe in God.

Why?
I see no reason to believe anything in the Bible.
I see no reason to believe that God communicates to us either individually or through messengers.

One can of course choose to believe otherwise but there is no argument or evidence which compels one to make either choice. Right?

The choice to believe in these things, like the Bible is purely arbitrary.
Why I don't believe is the same reason I don't believe Harry Potter is anything more than a fictional character, I've no reason to.

Do you feel compelled to believe in God?
Do you feel belief is necessary?

I don't see it but perhaps you can explain it.

Sometimes I am certain that God is real, sometimes I am less certain. Right now it's about 95%

 

[Audie]

Of course you can. You could even change the course of the formation by changing a couple of bits in the genome.

Ciao

- viole

A frog has something that looks an awful lot like a hand.

 

[janesix]

It is possible to believe in God without believing in prophets, holy books..

Yes, absolutely

 

[Skywalker]

And the things that clearly are not true, those get a pass?

What details in the Bible aren't true? People say that the Bible doesn't have scientific evidence, but the Bible is consistent with there being an old earth. There Are Major Theological and Scientific Problems With A Young Earth

There are numerous problems with the theory that there was no pre-Adamic world. Here are several reasons why a young earth simply cannot be true (or you could call these facts, evidence of an old earth):

1. If there was no prehistoric world, then how did the earth end up void and darkened. The Bible says that God's Word NEVER returns unto Him void? Isaiah 55:11, “So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.” God made man upright. God made the angels and Lucifer upright. Sin ruined them. Throughout Genesis 1 we read repeatedly that everything God made was “very good.” So why would God make a void and empty frozen wasteland? Clearly something happened. Jeremiah 4:23-28 tells us that God in His anger made the earth void.
   
   Have you ever wondered why heavenly angels always appeared in their own bodies in the Bible, but fallen angels (demons) always had to have a human or animal host to inhabit? This is speculation, but I believe that the fallen angels lost their bodies when God destroyed the earth in His fierce anger in Jeremiah 4:26. How else did they end up disembodied spirits?
   
2. The Bible mentions over 200 different animals and yet not one mention is made of any of the hundreds of prehistoric species in museums today. Surely if sabertooths, mammoths, dinosaurs (tyrannosauruses, brontosauruses, stegosaurus, et cetera), pterodactyls and hundreds of other prehistoric and terrifying creatures had lived amongst men, they would have been mentioned in the Bible. Clearly these creatures lived in a time before time.
   
3. The Bible says that Adam named every living creature (Genesis 2:19), but modern scientists have named 1047 different species of dinosaurs as of September 17, 2008. Adam couldn't name the dinosaurs (a term that didn't exist until the 19th century) because they were not there, that is, dinosaurs weren't a part of the remodeling of God's creation. You can trace the name of every animal and bird back through history, but dinosaurs you cannot.
   
4. Where did Satan come from? Clearly he was already in the Garden of Eden, so he existed before man. The King James Bible (most modern Bible versions remove Lucifer) tells us in Isaiah 14:12-16 that Lucifer rebelled against God and was relieved of his position in Heaven. The Luciferian conspiracy existing on earth today began long ago in Heaven before man was created.
   
5. When did the angels fall? There is no Biblical record of the angels falling during Old Testament times, so clearly they must have been cast down to earth for their rebellion BEFORE Genesis 1:2. And how could the angels and Lucifer be cast down to the earth if the earth didn't exist yet? Clearly, the earth DID exist, likely created by God billions of years ago. In Genesis chapter one, God REMODELED the earth.
   
6. When did God cast angels into Hell? 2nd Peter 2:4 says that God cast some of the angels that sinned down to Hell (Tartarus, only mentioned once in the New Testament, a special place in Hell just for demons). The logical conclusion is that God cast the angels down BEFORE Genesis 1:2.
   
7. In view of Jeremiah 4:23-28, when did God in His fury destroy the cities of the earth? The Bible tells us, that is, after Genesis 1:1 but before Genesis 1:2.
   
8. In view of Jeremiah 4:23-28, when did God make the earth dark without light to shine? Again, the Bible tells us, that is, after Genesis 1:1 but before Genesis 1:2.
   
9. In view of Jeremiah 4:23-28, when was there NO MAN? Clearly this passage of Scripture refers to a time before mankind existed. Although some scholars would argue that this passage doesn't specifically say it refers to creation, I think it would be irresponsible to ignore Jeremiah 4:23 and 26, “I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. ... I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.” There is no other way to conclude this passage, except as concerning the origins of the world. At no time in history has it been dark upon the earth as Jeremiah 4:23-28 says, except between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.
   
10. In Genesis chapter 1, why does the Bible make a distinction between the word “create” (meaning absolute creation) and the word “made” (which means “to make” in the broadest sense of the word)? Clearly something different was going on. God absolutely created the universe, then made it void in His anger, then remodeled the universe in Genesis 1-2. This is not progressive creation as some call it. God created life as we know it 6,000 years ago, but the universe is millions (if not billions) of years old. A young earth cannot explain any of these things.
    
11. When did dinosaurs live? There's no Biblical evidence to show that dinosaurs co-existed with man. The word “behemoth” in Job 40:15 (which some ignorantly allege to be a dinosaur) in the Hebrew language means either a hippopotamus, or more likely, an elephant, whose tail swings like a cedar palm swaying in the wind. Some young-earthers claim that legends of fire-breathing dragons is proof of dinosaurs, but historians have never verified nor even spoken of such actual creatures (which are as real as Greek mythology).
    
12. A young earth rejects legitimate scientific evidence. There is plenty of fossil and carbon dating evidence to show that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. The skeletal remains themselves of thousands of dinosaurs are clear evidence that dinosaurs lived long, long ago before mankind was created. Numerous scientific methods are used to determine the age of bones and soil. A young earth laughs in the face of legitimate science. Granted, evolution is based upon bad science and fraudulent claims, which is quite the contrary to proven methods of testing the age of materials. Although scientists may not be able to determine whether the earth is hundreds-of-millions verses billions of years old, they certainly can very easily prove that the earth is much older than 6,000 years.
    
13. In Isaiah 14:12-14 Lucifer said he wanted to rise above the clouds to be equal with God. When was Lucifer below the clouds? I believe this logically explains why God destroyed the earth, that is, to punish Lucifer.
    
14. Psalms 102:25 says “Of old” God laid the foundation of the earth. David penned this around 1,000 BC. The Bible dates the creation of mankind at about 4,004 BC.
    
15. Is radioactive carbon dating that wrong? I read an article today which tried to prove an young earth, saying that newly formed lava rocks tested to be millions of years old. Of course they did, the old rock turned to liquid and back to rock. It is millions of years old. Melting ice to water doesn't change it's chemical composition.
    
16. Where did sin originate? Clearly sin did not originate in the Garden of Eden. Lucifer and the angels that sinned against God, did so before mankind was ever created. Sin existed before man.
    
17. God gave man dominion over the earth. A young earth would mean that all the dinosaurs and gigantic and ferocious mammals (like Sabertooth tigers and huge mammoths) lived amongst men. People would have been dinner. It is quite obvious that these beautiful but frightening creatures did not live with mankind. Clearly they are prehistoric creatures. The pterodactyls (gigantic reptile birds) would have been a major threat to humans, and certainly the Bible would have mentioned these creatures if they existed in the Old Testament.
    
18. In Genesis 6:19 God told Noah, “And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.” The Bible doesn't exclude dinosaurs as some foolish scholars claim. If you believe in a young earth, and that dinosaurs lived amongst men, then you can only foolishly conclude that Noah left them behind as excess baggage. Clearly dinosaurs didn't exist during Noah's time. Noah couldn't have fit dinosaurs on the ark if he had tried. God didn't tell Noah to leave behind certain living flesh; but rather, commanded Noah to bring two of every sort of all flesh into the ark. This is further evidence of an old earth.

 

[Audie]

What details in the Bible aren't true? People say that the Bible doesn't have scientific evidence, but the Bible is consistent with there being an old earth. There Are Major Theological and Scientific Problems With A Young Earth

Some say young. It says whatever suits the reader.
Some say it is about an old earth.


That came about when it was clear ( from science) that yec is garbage and revisionists tried to force fit bible to fact.

Some few of the ordinary details are
verifiable. " Egypt" for example.

its like a semi historical novel. Some of it like
"Egypt" is real. The overlay of supernatural
this and that is either provably false or,
has zero (zero) evidence.

Of course the whole flood thing is phony as a three dollar bill.

 

[osgart]

You could so turn it but are you into calumny and falsehood?

No, I already explained the comment further on in the thread.

I made an intentionally false statement to be the equivalent of a statement I considered false and insulting. The point was about stereotyping believer's and non believer's, atheists and theists also.

 

[Audie]

No, I already explained the comment further on in the thread.

I made an intentionally false statement to be the equivalent of a statement I considered false and insulting. The point was about stereotyping believer's and non believer's, atheists and theists also.

Good, and pardon the misunderstanding please

 

[osgart]

Good, and pardon the misunderstanding please

I should have made it clearer actually from the onset.

 

[Audie]

I should have made it clearer actually from the onset.

We all fail at uttermost clarity to the most benighted.

 

[osgart]

We all fail at uttermost clarity to the most benighted.

I'm actually typing on an iphone and that is hindering my ability to communicate. Otherwise I can type 40 wpm.

Clarity is work. I wish I could be perfectly logical all the time but that isn't always possible.

 

[viole]

Which writer of which ‘standard biology books’ should I read?

What is your mother language? Any European high school book would do.

Let me ask you this: Where did the writers of the biology books get their truths?

By using a discipline that assumes naturalism in the premises.called science. Amazing what you can achieve when you assume naturalism. You can pray for eons without achieving anything close to what scientists achieve in one day.

When really smart people come to the conclusion that their smarts are what makes them superior, they tend to lose touch with humility.

Tautologically true.

questioned evolution as a youngster in school, not understanding where nothing came from...?
If I give you nothing, and you add nothing to it, you wind up with nothing.
0+0=0
(I bet any 5 year old would appreciate receiving nothing for his birthday... and then explain to him that the WHOLE universe came from nothing! So he should shut up about nothing and be satisfied with nothing!)

Now, who is losing touch with humility? Do you really think that générations of scientists missed something as trivial as the first, or second, principle of thermodynamics, and that you killed decades of cosmology based on something so obvious?

now, humility would suggest that you are missing something. Specially since you appear to not have he necessary scientific background to even judge those things.

and by the way, 5 + (-5) = 0, too. So you can have 5 and -5, popping out from nowhere, and still satisfy the first principle.

The problem is not science. Or physics. Or math.
The problem is final authority. That little moral compass that guides people through life (or not).
Who decides what is bad and wrong or good and right.

Who is the final authority on morals...

If one does away with God, that pesky One True God, then one can choose to ignore the moral compass and go do ‘their own thing’.

well. I need to repeat myself.

if losing your faith tomorrow will turn you into Hannibal the Cannibal, Then keep believing whatever you believe, by all means.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Love God]

What is your mother language? Any European high school book would do.


By using a discipline that assumes naturalism in the premises.called science. Amazing what you can achieve when you assume naturalism. You can pray for eons without achieving anything close to what scientists achieve in one day.



Tautologically true.




Now, who is losing touch with humility? Do you really think that générations of scientists missed something as trivial as the first, or second, principle of thermodynamics, and that you killed decades of cosmology based on something so obvious?

now, humility would suggest that you are missing something. Specially since you appear to not have he necessary scientific background to even judge those things.

and by the way, 5 + (-5) = 0, too. So you can have 5 and -5, popping out from nowhere, and still satisfy the first principle.



well. I need to repeat myself.

if losing your faith tomorrow will turn you into Hannibal the Cannibal, Then keep believing whatever you believe, by all means.

Ciao

- viole