Are you closed minded?

[Michelle71]

I’m a Christian and I believe God....

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Concerning god, most atheists are agnostic atheists or soft atheists. Therefore, their belief has some form of uncertainty. I, and I think other soft atheists, believe god(s) are possible, but unlikely.

Contrary to this, it seems most theists are absolutely certain god(s) exist. I’ve noticed, some theists will even say it’s possible their god does not exist but immediately deny what they said with some tangent. Therefore, they’re absolutely certain.

I propose that people who are absolutely certain about a topic, especially one as controversial as this, are closed minded. People who are closed minded cannot accept new information to the contrary; they’ll dismiss it without a thought. Even Socrates understood the immense problems with certainty. Even science does not use absolutely certainty.

Are you absolutely certain god exists or not?
VS Do you believe it’s most likely god exist but possible god does not exist or it’s unlikely but possible?

Here, I’ll go first.

I think it’s possible but unlikely god(s) exist. The end.

Let’s see how open minded or closed minded you are.

As a tracker, I'm going to see how many atheists vs theists answer this question.

Atheists: 5 Theists: 2

Book gods, as described in various books? Impossible things-- you cannot have a square circle-- so none of these exist as depicted.

Moreover, a truly good god, who cares about the fate of humans, and interacts with them? Also does not exist: because of god-preventable evil in the world does exist.

That leaves evil gods, and indifferent gods. (and also semi-gods who are not Omni-Max beings... think Thor of recent movie fame.)

Evil gods do not exist for the same reason benevolent gods don't. Too much progressive, positive gain among humans in general, for malevolent gods to exist.

That leaves only indifferent and/or Clock Work gods. These may exist, but who cares? They act as if they do not exist-- so they may as well not exist.

Bottom line: Do gods exist? Mostly-- no, but it depends on what you mean by 'god'.

However, I'm prepared to have my mind changed-- funny, that-- if god existed, and was benevolent? And all-knowing, etc? It would not only know what it would take to convince this skeptic to believe, it would have the power to do so, and it would want to.

On Dawkin's scale of 1 to 7? I'm about 6.9999999999999

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Why do you hope God doesnt exist?

I hope also-- because of gods do exist? They are either indifferent or malicious in their evil....

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

God does exist.

Prove it-- the fact that you make this claim? Is pretty strong proof that gods do not, in fact, exist...

.... an actual god would never need such as you, to argue for it's existence...

 

[charlie sc]

Most of the atheists I've met have not been soft atheists or mild agnostics. They have gone out of their way to try to convince me that I'm crazy or stupid, that I'm the one with the closed mind while I accept something that seems initially to be nonexistent which takes an actualy amount of faith, or they keep tallies like Atheists:4, Theists: 2. Yes, mild agnostics apparently keep tallies on questions or whatever it was.

When you said mild and soft atheists, I think you misunderstood. Atheism - Wikipedia soft vs hard atheist are about certainty, not whether they're trying to convince other people are crazy or stupid So how certain are you god exists? Absolutely certain?

 

[charlie sc]

I must say, I'm very impressed with all the agnostic(somethings) here. Very impressed indeed. Thanks to all who answered and took part so far.

 

[charlie sc]

One can't know what they don't know. I just prefer not to pretend having knowledge of something that I don't.

A very wise thing to say, indeed

 

[charlie sc]

Given the 100% lack of evidence
Given the fact suffering exists
Given the number of different religions
Given that the amount of "stuff" attributed to god magic has reduced dramatically as the "not understood" has become understood and the gaps keep getting fewer and smaller.

I am certain no gods exist.

That is not to say more advanced beings that exist on earth do not exist somewhere in this universe.

Are you absolutely certain?

 

[charlie sc]

My brain is like concrete cement. I never change my mind no matter what. God is just a word and the word God absolutely exists. What the word God means is purely subjective and irrelevant.

Although it would be nice to somehow how show or prove the soul actually exists and is something separate than physical material. Mind from matter is a really strange. We are made of the very stuff we are experiencing. It sure feels like I have consciousness and I am not a machine. Whatever it is I am experiencing or telling me what to think it's not simple mechanical stuff. Reality seems so real. It's more than just simple measurements of perception. I think reality is spirit and not material. Our soul is part of something bigger than ourselves. When we experience reality it completes a type of self-referential experience/perception circuit with God.

So you're 100% certain god exists?

 

[charlie sc]

One can corroborate with other individuals in a dream in the same way. Would that corroboration make the dream reality true?

I'm not sure dreams work like that. Dreams are fairly illogical in nature and reflect how the person was feeling when they went to sleep. What you said reminds me of the philosophical inquiry of existence through dreams Zhuangzi (book) - Wikipedia.
Anyway, what the seems to create is more uncertainty, not certainty.

Sure it would be. But without being clear on what you understand to be “god,” my answer would be rather useless to anyone but me. I’m confident that my understanding of “god” is quite different than yours.

This question can even be answered by a pantheist, which a pantheist has done in this thread. However, if you think your concept of god is so different it cannot answer the OP's question, then I won't push it further

 

[charlie sc]

I’m a Christian and I believe God....

How certain are you? Absolutely certain or with varying degrees of uncertainty?

 

[charlie sc]

It doesn't seem useful to me to paint those who have confidence and certainty with a pejorative like "closed minded." If however, being certain of my values, confident in my reasoning ability, and experienced means I am "closed minded" on the subject of the gods, so be it.

Ah, so you are absolutely certain god exists?

It should go without saying that anything a culture deifies exists beyond a reasonable doubt for that culture.

Beyond reasonable doubt may not mean absolutely certain and without question.

and so on.

I can think of a few more questions, "how many more Jihads and Crusades will there be?", "how many more laws that infringe on human rights will exist because of religious doctrine?", and, "how many groups or individuals will be ostracised, because of some presupposition in religion?" Oh man, let's just look at the good stuff.

If being more interested in those types of questions also means I am "closed minded" about the subjects of the gods, so be it as well.

Maybe being uninterested in the questions I mentioned means something

For those who think there's such a problem with certainty, consider for a moment the problems of uncertainty, or analysis paralysis: never asking more questions because you're still finding the answer to the first one.

As a whole, I don't think humanity has this problem. You'll notice the overwhelming majority of people make decisions based on very little to no information at all. Perhaps, it a good thing to learn more before making a decision, especially one that could affect the well-being of other human beings, hmmm?

Be certain of the things you deeply value. Be uncertain of the things you do not care about.

I'm not sure this applies. The things we care about are going to be biased in some way, which means we SHOULD be much more careful over these decisions. The things we don't care about will have no conflict of interest, hence we can make much more rational decision about them.

 

[charlie sc]

Bottom line: Do gods exist? Mostly-- no, but it depends on what you mean by 'god'.

I think it's humorous that atheists consider this question about a million times more than a theist.

 

[charlie sc]

god exists like the air we breathe.

How certain are you of this?

 

[charlie sc]

I think of faith as a "Strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof." Reason is a totally different means of acquiring knowledge.

Agreed. However, this is not what I find with most theists. When I ask how they believe, they answer with evidence. If you ever watch the atheist experience, you'll notice the same thing. I genuinely respect and admire theists who know and admit they believe on faith alone.

Our sense of fairness is intuitive. It's not something we can always explain reasonably.

Yes and no. It may be true but what you said here is an assertion.

Social scientists know that this sense is intuitive but when subjects can't explain their judgments reasonably the researchers wrongly conclude that intuition is undependable.

I don't think it's when they can't explain it, it's when the participants get it wrong. This means intuition is not reliable.

You're making the same mistake with faith.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. For morality, I'm a moral relativist, though you may be talking about another type of intuition/reason?

 

[Trailblazer]

How certain are you? Absolutely certain or with varying degrees of uncertainty?

I am absolutely certain but sometimes I wish God did not exist as I get mad at Him often.
My husband says I should become an atheist but I cannot not believe God exists.

 

[charlie sc]

I am absolutely certain but sometimes I wish God did not exist as I get mad at Him often.
My husband says I should become an atheist but I cannot not believe God exists.

Oh jeez, getting angry at god? What do you think god thinks about you venting at Him/Her?

 

[syo]

How certain are you of this?

Very certain. What caused us? God.

 

[Unguru]

How certain are you of this?

How certain are you of this question?

 

[charlie sc]

Very certain. What caused us? God.

I'll take that as absolutely certain. Thanks