Are you Smart enough to go to Heaven????

[sojourner]

When that light bulb goes off over your head and you understand, is it really a heart thing? Sure, people are influenced by their hearts, but isn't it Reason that leads

Yes, it is, becausecenlightenment isn’t a matter of reason; it’s a matter of deeply known truth, that goes beyond the grasping of concepts, to the embodiment of the truth.

On the other hand, religions all over the world depend on emotions to gain believers. Any good salesman knows if you get someone feeling strong enough, you can sell them anything once the reason half is no longer leading

“Heart” and “emotion” are two different things. Heart doesn’t abrogate reason; it transcends it.

If one does not lead with Reason, one can get lost is a sea of emotions. It's never fun being lost.

Embodiment of truth isn’t a “sea of emotion.”

I don’t think you’re getting it. We’re working our way from the literal, through the symbolic and mythic, to the energetic. Reason lives in the literal.

 

[Shad]

It's bad enough having to play golf with Jesus and God every other Thursday, let alone, spending eternity doting on their insecurities. I have no use, whatsoever, for any heaven.

Jesus cheats in the water traps.

 

[Bird123]

Yes, it is, becausecenlightenment isn’t a matter of reason; it’s a matter of deeply known truth, that goes beyond the grasping of concepts, to the embodiment of the truth.

“Heart” and “emotion” are two different things. Heart doesn’t abrogate reason; it transcends it.


Embodiment of truth isn’t a “sea of emotion.”

I don’t think you’re getting it. We’re working our way from the literal, through the symbolic and mythic, to the energetic. Reason lives in the literal.

Does not Truth live with the literal facts? Symbolic,Mythic, and Energetic are laced within Beliefs. Beliefs merely point a direction by which one might investigate on the journey to Discover the Real Truth.

The Real Truth, just like Math, will always add up and the answers will never change. Staying within the realm of beliefs leads one away from the real journey toward God and Truth.

 

[Willamena]

The music of heaven:

 

[sojourner]

Does not Truth live with the literal facts? Symbolic,Mythic, and Energetic are laced within Beliefs. Beliefs merely point a direction by which one might investigate on the journey to Discover the Real Truth.

The Real Truth, just like Math, will always add up and the answers will never change. Staying within the realm of beliefs leads one away from the real journey toward God and Truth.

You’re conflating fact with truth. And, BTW, facts do change, as knowledge and circumstances change We are holistic beings, so, therefore, truth embodies more than empirical fact for us. Truth does include facts, but it also includes how those facts inform our lives, and how we choose to embody them.

 

[Frankie85]

I’ve heard it so many times that all a person has to do to go to Heaven is to believe in God or follow some religion’s beliefs. Does mere Belief make something true?



OK, say all the believers make it to Heaven. How long would it take for the first fight to start? Do people really think simply because they have paradise that they won’t be who they really are?



Some say God will change people so they won’t fight. If that were the truth, why didn’t God change them in the first place, then believing would not matter? It doesn’t add up.



As I see it, the answer is simple. In order to be able to exist in a Heavenly state with people, one must be smart enough to Understand and Live what it takes. One must Understand the petty things that would make Heaven not possible.



One cannot hate for any reason. People are different physically, mentally, and personality. Have you learned the Value of these differences instead of hating them?



One cannot control or intimidate others. Have you learned the Value of allowing others to be themselves with total freedom of choice? I think control is a big one. Seems everybody wants to rule the world. Everyone wants others their way.



Being self-centered and selfish could never generate a Heavenly state. In a Heavenly state, there must be love. Have you learned Unconditional Love is the only way? Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. It’s not always easy to value others above all else. Have you learned to do this today?



Have you learned to let go of the petty things like hating, controlling, ruling, selfishness, greed, anger, wrath, blaming, condemning, judging, coercing, intimidating, lying and cheating? Have you learned enough and lived enough to understand one must let these petty things go?



Are you ready for Heaven? How many people are ready? Yes, as I see it, there is a long way to go. On the other hand, given enough time, lessons, and lives, I think we will all make it to Heaven.



So what do you think? It has nothing to do with Beliefs. It’s simple Math!



Are you smart enough to go to Heaven? Maybe not yet, but will be in time.

There`s no heaven or hell, it`s just a fantasy.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

When one reaches a high enough level of intelligence, are any rules really needed?

You should look into the Enron scandal.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You’re conflating fact with truth. And, BTW, facts do change, as knowledge and circumstances change We are holistic beings, so, therefore, truth embodies more than empirical fact for us.

What we call facts may change, but a fact itself doesn't, for if it changes then it wasn't a fact. Somewhat like how science tells us about what is already there, even though how we explain things is prone to changing.

 

[Bird123]

You’re conflating fact with truth. And, BTW, facts do change, as knowledge and circumstances change We are holistic beings, so, therefore, truth embodies more than empirical fact for us. Truth does include facts, but it also includes how those facts inform our lives, and how we choose to embody them.

Facts and Truth are the same. Of course, what one chooses to do with those facts and truth are entirely up to them.

As I see it, since we are all learning what are the best choices through living our lessons, we are Discovering what the Real Truth and Facts are including all those emotions many value above all else. After eons upon eons of learning, it will all add up completely just like Math. This is the point when one Understands and Knows that the best choice is Unconditional Love which will be Heaven.

 

[Bird123]

There`s no heaven or hell, it`s just a fantasy.

As religion views it, you are right. On the other hand, one can choose which they are creating in reality.

Even the most stubborn after choosing so many hard lessons for themselves will walk toward the light of Unconditional Love. One discovers that Unconditional Love is the best choice.

One may walk through Hell but everyone will end up in Heaven simply because after enough lessons, intelligence will make the best choices and that won't be Hell.

 

[Bird123]

You should look into the Enron scandal.

Can we really say those involved with Enron were intelligent? Enron supplied many hard lessons for a lot of people, not just the executives. Clearly, there is much more to learn.

 

[sojourner]

Facts and Truth are the same

I disagree. Facts are objective. Truth is subjective.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Can we really say those involved with Enron were intelligent?

They had a good enough grasp on things to exploit the system to the extent their case would change corporate accounting at all levels. Ultimately there is no correlation between intelligence and having a moral sense of social responsibility, and intelligence is not a predictor of pro-social behavior or likeliness to follow and uphold the law.

 

[Bird123]

I disagree. Facts are objective. Truth is subjective.

Beliefs are subjective, not real truth. If I step off a high rise building, the truth is that I am going to fall regardless of how I feel about it. Sometimes, one will think they have the truth but later discover they did not really have truth at all. Example: At one time science said that the truth was that an atom was the smallest part of an element. Today we know that is not true.

A subjective view often leads away from real truth in favor of what one wants to be true rather than what actually is the truth. Since beliefs are not always true, they can be as subjective as one desires.

It comes down to whether one seeks Truth or whether one seeks the world the way they want it to be. For myself, it must always be Truth rather than mere beliefs.

 

[Bird123]

They had a good enough grasp on things to exploit the system to the extent their case would change corporate accounting at all levels. Ultimately there is no correlation between intelligence and having a moral sense of social responsibility, and intelligence is not a predictor of pro-social behavior or likeliness to follow and uphold the law.

Perhaps, our definition of intelligence is different. Do you think after the results of their actions were known that they would have done it all over again? I would bet Mr. Baxter would have done things differently.

With Enron, many got lessons in Greed and the price that greed costs. This educated many from executives, investors to regulators. How did it educate the people? How did it change the world?

In a multilevel classroom, everyone is at a different level. A person might seem intelligent and even an executive of a large corporation and yet has never learned some of the lessons you and I have learned. In this case, putting the selfish acquisition of money above all else. It proved to be a hard lesson to learn.

Perhaps religion is to blame. Religion has taught people to judge and condemn others. Is it fair to condemn others learning lessons you have already learned?

Have you ever said: How can these people do that? Is it time to blame their lack of morals, judge and condemn them or is it time to solve the real problem just as God is doing with this world.

Yes, I know things can get pretty messy, however there is no better way to learn than to Live your Lessons.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Perhaps, our definition of intelligence is different.

Apparently. It still stands there is no correlation between intelligence and moral behavior and social responsibility.

Have you ever said: How can these people do that?

We're human.

Is it time to blame their lack of morals, judge and condemn them or is it time to solve the real problem just as God is doing with this world.

I tend to look at situations first, and regard things such as "lack of morals" and "character" last. Where things get messy is when people step beyond the conventional excuses of "morality" and "will power" and acknowledge they have not been in such situations and they do not know how they would act.

however there is no better way to learn than to Live your Lessons.

You don't even know my life, or my struggles, so how could you possible know what is better for me and what lessons I learn?

 

[12jtartar]

I’ve heard it so many times that all a person has to do to go to Heaven is to believe in God or follow some religion’s beliefs. Does mere Belief make something true?




OK, say all the believers make it to Heaven. How long would it take for the first fight to start? Do people really think simply because they have paradise that they won’t be who they really are?



Some say God will change people so they won’t fight. If that were the truth, why didn’t God change them in the first place, then believing would not matter? It doesn’t add up.



As I see it, the answer is simple. In order to be able to exist in a Heavenly state with people, one must be smart enough to Understand and Live what it takes. One must Understand the petty things that would make Heaven not possible.



One cannot hate for any reason. People are different physically, mentally, and personality. Have you learned the Value of these differences instead of hating them?



One cannot control or intimidate others. Have you learned the Value of allowing others to be themselves with total freedom of choice? I think control is a big one. Seems everybody wants to rule the world. Everyone wants others their way.



Being self-centered and selfish could never generate a Heavenly state. In a Heavenly state, there must be love. Have you learned Unconditional Love is the only way? Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. It’s not always easy to value others above all else. Have you learned to do this today?



Have you learned to let go of the petty things like hating, controlling, ruling, selfishness, greed, anger, wrath, blaming, condemning, judging, coercing, intimidating, lying and cheating? Have you learned enough and lived enough to understand one must let these petty things go?



Are you ready for Heaven? How many people are ready? Yes, as I see it, there is a long way to go. On the other hand, given enough time, lessons, and lives, I think we will all make it to Heaven.



So what do you think? It has nothing to do with Beliefs. It’s simple Math!



Are you smart enough to go to Heaven? Maybe not yet, but will be in time.

Bird123,
It seems, according to the Bible, that you and I have, almost zero chance of going to heaven. There is a number recorded in the Holy Scriptures that tell us exactly how many from earth that will go to heaven. That number is 144,000, Revelation 7:1-4, then is a contrast with a great crowd, Revelation 7:9, who live through The Great Tribulation, that is near, to live forever on a Paradise Earth, just as God always Purposed, Genesis 1:26-28, Isaiah 45:18, Psalms 37:29, Psalms 115:16.
The number of people who are going to heaven, started in the first century, the Apostles first, then all who would join the. Christian Congregation, until that number was filled. It seems that the number was filled in the early part of the 20th century.
These ones who go to heaven,go for a special reason, they will be Kings and Priests over the multitudes who will live on earth, both the ones who live through The Great Tribulation, and the many millions who will be resurrected back to life, John 5:29,30, Acts 24:15, Revelation 5:9,10, 7:4, 14:1-4, 20:4-6. The ones going to heaven are of the First Resurrection, and they will be immortal, the Second Death has no power over them, 1Corinthians 15:50-55. These that go to heaven will then help us, on earth, to bring the earth to a perfect condition, as we also grow toward perfection , as Adam and Eve were, before their fall. We will live through a Thousand Year Judgement Day, then a last test, when Satan and his Demond’s will be released from the abyss to ring about the last test of mankind living in a perfect state on earth. All who live through the last test will be granted everlasting life. Even deathans Hades, the grave will be done away with. Revelation 20:1-4,7-10, 13-15, 21:1-7. Agape!!!

 

[sojourner]

Beliefs are subjective, not real truth. If I step off a high rise building, the truth is that I am going to fall regardless of how I feel about it. Sometimes, one will think they have the truth but later discover they did not really have truth at all. Example: At one time science said that the truth was that an atom was the smallest part of an element. Today we know that is not true.

A subjective view often leads away from real truth in favor of what one wants to be true rather than what actually is the truth. Since beliefs are not always true, they can be as subjective as one desires.

It comes down to whether one seeks Truth or whether one seeks the world the way they want it to be. For myself, it must always be Truth rather than mere beliefs.

If you step off a high rise building, the fact is that you are going to fall, regardless of how you feel about it. At one time, science said it was a fact that the atom was the smallest part of an element. They had their facts incomplete. Truth is more closely tied to belief than it is to fact. When Pilate asked, "What is truth?" it was a clue. Was Jesus "King of the Jews?" What did the facts show? What did people believe? The truth is borne out in how people acted, based upon their belief. The "fact" was that Jesus was not "King of the Jews." The truth was that Jesus is "King of the Jews." Otherwise, Xy would never have gotten off the ground, and would not be the largest religion in the world.

 

[Bird123]

Apparently. It still stands there is no correlation between intelligence and moral behavior and social responsibility.

We're human.

I tend to look at situations first, and regard things such as "lack of morals" and "character" last. Where things get messy is when people step beyond the conventional excuses of "morality" and "will power" and acknowledge they have not been in such situations and they do not know how they would act.

You don't even know my life, or my struggles, so how could you possible know what is better for me and what lessons I learn?

Your quote:Apparently. It still stands there is no correlation between intelligence and moral behavior and social responsibility. My answer: It's not just IQ. One must include acquired knowledge, including experiences.

When one understands all sides, intelligence will make the best choices. How many times have you said: I'll never do that again. Did you see, learn, discover or experience something that added new information that led you to say that?

Your quote:You don't even know my life, or my struggles, so how could you possible know what is better for me and what lessons I learn?[/QUOTE] My Answer: With the many variables of a person, there is a lot to learn and experience. Further, adding the many lifetimes of learning and things are complex. There is one thing I do know. Our every choice tells God and the world what we know and what we need to learn. Since many people are concerned with only themselves, their narrow vision will see none of this.

At our level, one can not see it all. On the other hand, everyone can see something. Nothing is hidden. Look around you. Can you see others learning lessons that you have already learned? Do you really have to know everything about the person to see this?

Your journey has never been up to me. It is up to you. I copy God when I place truth in the world. What people choose to do with that truth is entirely up to them. Regardless of a person's choices, they move forward no matter how long it takes to discover the best choices for themselves.

Perhaps, the condemning and judging of other's choices and so called morals is just an excuse to hate. Hate is not the answer. Fixing the problem is. Yes, many problems do take time to resolve, however placing effort in the right direction can only shorten the learning curve.

 

[Bird123]

Bird123,
It seems, according to the Bible, that you and I have, almost zero chance of going to heaven. There is a number recorded in the Holy Scriptures that tell us exactly how many from earth that will go to heaven. That number is 144,000, Revelation 7:1-4, then is a contrast with a great crowd, Revelation 7:9, who live through The Great Tribulation, that is near, to live forever on a Paradise Earth, just as God always Purposed, Genesis 1:26-28, Isaiah 45:18, Psalms 37:29, Psalms 115:16.
The number of people who are going to heaven, started in the first century, the Apostles first, then all who would join the. Christian Congregation, until that number was filled. It seems that the number was filled in the early part of the 20th century.
These ones who go to heaven,go for a special reason, they will be Kings and Priests over the multitudes who will live on earth, both the ones who live through The Great Tribulation, and the many millions who will be resurrected back to life, John 5:29,30, Acts 24:15, Revelation 5:9,10, 7:4, 14:1-4, 20:4-6. The ones going to heaven are of the First Resurrection, and they will be immortal, the Second Death has no power over them, 1Corinthians 15:50-55. These that go to heaven will then help us, on earth, to bring the earth to a perfect condition, as we also grow toward perfection , as Adam and Eve were, before their fall. We will live through a Thousand Year Judgement Day, then a last test, when Satan and his Demond’s will be released from the abyss to ring about the last test of mankind living in a perfect state on earth. All who live through the last test will be granted everlasting life. Even deathans Hades, the grave will be done away with. Revelation 20:1-4,7-10, 13-15, 21:1-7. Agape!!!

You just must ask yourself. Do these stories you tell sound like the actions of God or even of a Being of High Intelligence?

These stories sound like Mankind. One of the petty things mankind holds so dear is Ruling over others. Don't you understand? There is no need to rule and control others. At God's intelligence level, God is teaching all his children through their own free choices.
There is no need for controlling, hating and condemning, They serve only to hurt oneself. God is much Smarter than that.

Kiddies, make it easy on yourselves. Make choices you want to return to yourselves.