ARF ARF......Your Not A Comedian Hillary

[esmith]

And that's a very important point.

Only if you are not in the US.

 

[4consideration]

In most cases, yes, and that is logical. Let me give an example.

You are the good guy with a gun, and I'm the bad guy with a gun, and we're just standing around by ourselves.

Bang-- you're dead.

You see (but some really don't want to see), I'm going to pull my gun on you when you are least prepared, but you cannot do the same to me because you're the good guy who would get into legal trouble if you did. Carrying a gun around makes one about as safe as carrying a security blanket-- probably even worse than that. At least with a security blanket, any adult should know that it ain't really protecting them, therefore they had better be careful about what's in their surroundings. An ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure.

How about this one?

I can't say with absolute certainty that it really did occur, since I don't know...but, I was told by someone it was told to them as a real life occurrence during Katrina. (This was in a conversation of stories we heard by word of mouth, we figured we'd never hear about in the media. Have no idea how true it is, but it's at least as valuable as any made up scenario.)

Let's say you're a man with a family that is in the experience of a natural disaster in which your house is full of, and surrounded by water, and the police are unable to get your call for help, much less respond.

Let's say your family is in your attic, and while the police cannot get to you, a group of 4 thugs can.

Let's say this group of thugs is toying with you, and has informed you they are coming up into the attic, and give you a detailed list of what they are going to do to your wife and children before they kill them - while making you watch -- and then do again to their dead bodies, while making you watch...then do to you, before killing you.

Now according to the way the story was told to me, the man shot each of those 4 as they were attempting to enter the attic. The good guy wins in this one, and probably the alligators, too. Maybe he has to live with the grief of having killed other human beings. He didn't have to live, or die, with the grief of watching his family brutalized and murdered.

 

[Revoltingest]

How about this one?

I can't say with absolute certainty that it really did occur, since I don't know...but, I was told by someone it was told to them as a real life occurrence during Katrina. (This was in a conversation of stories we heard by word of mouth, we figured we'd never hear about in the media. Have no idea how true it is, but it's at least as valuable as any made up scenario.)

Let's say you're a man with a family that is in the experience of a natural disaster in which your house is full of, and surrounded by water, and the police are unable to get your call for help, much less respond.

Let's say your family is in your attic, and while the police cannot get to you, a group of 4 thugs can.

Let's say this group of thugs is toying with you, and has informed you they are coming up into the attic, and give you a detailed list of what they are going to do to your wife and children before they kill them - while making you watch -- and then do again to their dead bodies, while making you watch...then do to you, before killing you.

Now according to the way the story was told to me, the man shot each of those 4 as they were attempting to enter the attic. The good guy wins in this one, and probably the alligators, too. Maybe he has to live with the grief of having killed other human beings. He didn't have to live, or die, with the grief of watching his family brutalized and murdered.

Ew.

Society breaks down at such times.
The ability to defend oneself then has its greatest value.

 

[metis]

How about this one?

I can't say with absolute certainty that it really did occur, since I don't know...but, I was told by someone it was told to them as a real life occurrence during Katrina. (This was in a conversation of stories we heard by word of mouth, we figured we'd never hear about in the media. Have no idea how true it is, but it's at least as valuable as any made up scenario.)

Let's say you're a man with a family that is in the experience of a natural disaster in which your house is full of, and surrounded by water, and the police are unable to get your call for help, much less respond.

Let's say your family is in your attic, and while the police cannot get to you, a group of 4 thugs can.

Let's say this group of thugs is toying with you, and has informed you they are coming up into the attic, and give you a detailed list of what they are going to do to your wife and children before they kill them - while making you watch -- and then do again to their dead bodies, while making you watch...then do to you, before killing you.

Now according to the way the story was told to me, the man shot each of those 4 as they were attempting to enter the attic. The good guy wins in this one, and probably the alligators, too. Maybe he has to live with the grief of having killed other human beings. He didn't have to live, or die, with the grief of watching his family brutalized and murdered.

Yes, and according to the National Highway Safety Council, in about one accident out of twenty, a person is better off not wearing a seat belt.

 

[metis]

Only if you are not in the US.

But often lessons can be learned from observing others.

 

[Mycroft]

How about this one?

I can't say with absolute certainty that it really did occur, since I don't know...but, I was told by someone it was told to them as a real life occurrence during Katrina. (This was in a conversation of stories we heard by word of mouth, we figured we'd never hear about in the media. Have no idea how true it is, but it's at least as valuable as any made up scenario.)

Let's say you're a man with a family that is in the experience of a natural disaster in which your house is full of, and surrounded by water, and the police are unable to get your call for help, much less respond.

Let's say your family is in your attic, and while the police cannot get to you, a group of 4 thugs can.

Let's say this group of thugs is toying with you, and has informed you they are coming up into the attic, and give you a detailed list of what they are going to do to your wife and children before they kill them - while making you watch -- and then do again to their dead bodies, while making you watch...then do to you, before killing you.

Now according to the way the story was told to me, the man shot each of those 4 as they were attempting to enter the attic. The good guy wins in this one, and probably the alligators, too. Maybe he has to live with the grief of having killed other human beings. He didn't have to live, or die, with the grief of watching his family brutalized and murdered.

It's fine if you have enough foreknowledge to prepare and to get your gun. But mostly you wont be granted such foreknowledge. Nobody sends you an email a week beforehand to inform you of their plans. They just turn up, shoot you, and 9/10 you wont have your gun there to do anything about it.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's fine if you have enough foreknowledge to prepare and to get your gun. But mostly you wont be granted such foreknowledge. Nobody sends you an email a week beforehand to inform you of their plans. They just turn up, shoot you, and 9/10 you wont have your gun there to do anything about it.

Quoting statistics now, eh?
Sausage!
I demand sausage!

I mean "links".
The 2 terms get confused at times.

 

[Mycroft]

Quoting statistics now, eh?
Sausage!
I demand sausage!

I mean "links".
The 2 terms get confused at times.

I bet if a study was done to see how many occasions someone was shot domestically (outside of criminal happenings) while both shooter and shootee were armed, there would only be a minority of such incidents.

 

[Underhill]

Stories like that are overblown though. It's like

Quoting statistics now, eh?
Sausage!
I demand sausage!

I mean "links".
The 2 terms get confused at times.

I'm not going to post links cause I don't feel like it. (and I have before)

But all the numbers I have seen say it's essentially a wash. The chances of an accident or suicide happening in the home is roughly the same as someone defending themself.

I keep my guns locked up, knowing I live in one of the most crime free regions of the country (although my neighbor's cat is starting to **** me off.) but where you live probably impacts whether it is worthwhile to attempt to arm yourself.

There are some valid points on both sides of the argument. Personally, if starting from zero, I would say guns (primarily hand guns) probably cause more harm than good overall. On the other hand, when the country already has more guns than people, it's hard to justify attempting to take them away. It's a catch 22 in a lot of ways. We can't take them away because there are so many of them out there.

 

[metis]

It's fine if you have enough foreknowledge to prepare and to get your gun. But mostly you wont be granted such foreknowledge. Nobody sends you an email a week beforehand to inform you of their plans. They just turn up, shoot you, and 9/10 you wont have your gun there to do anything about it.

Yes, and not only is this just plain old common sense, the stats bear it out. We have vastly more accidental killings, combined with family/friends killed in disputes, combined with suicides with guns, than there are burglars or potential murderers shot and killed in the home. Heck, all one has to do is to turn on the nightly news to see that. With an average of around 30,000 gun deaths per year here in the States, only a very small fraction relate to killing criminals in defense of one's home.

BTW, I just looked up the stat, and it's about 100 per year-- that's all. -- http://www.theatlantic.com/national...-the-irrational-fear-of-home-invasion/266613/

 

[Underhill]

Yes, and not only is this just plain old common sense, the stats bear it out. We have vastly more accidental killings, combined with family/friends killed in disputes, combined with suicides with guns, than there are burglars or potential murderers shot and killed in the home. Heck, all one has to do is to turn on the nightly news to see that. With an average of around 30,000 gun deaths per year here in the States, only a very small fraction relate to killing criminals in defense of one's home.

BTW, I just looked up the stat, and it's about 100 per year-- that's all. -- http://www.theatlantic.com/national...-the-irrational-fear-of-home-invasion/266613/

Yeah, I spent some time on this issue and came to a slightly different conclusion. The problem is that people don't see homicide as the only reason to arm themselves. It is to prevent theft. And you won't convince them it isn't necessary in those cases.

 

[metis]

Yeah, I spent some time on this issue and came to a slightly different conclusion. The problem is that people don't see homicide as the only reason to arm themselves. It is to prevent theft. And you won't convince them it isn't necessary in those cases.

I hear ya.

But let me just say that the best protection against theft is preventative, and that can be handled through various techniques that are effective and also protect the homeowner and the family. Anyone who tries to break into my home is gonna have one helluva problem, and what it cost me is less than what a good handgun would cost.

 

[Revoltingest]

I hear ya.

But let me just say that the best protection against theft is preventative, and that can be handled through various techniques that are effective and also protect the homeowner and the family. Anyone who tries to break into my home is gonna have one helluva problem, and what it cost me is less than what a good handgun would cost.

Well that works for you, but I don't have a 79 year old geezer wearing a
blue fuzzy thong & a Nixon mask to scare the bejeebus out any robbers.
So I resort to locking the doors at nite.

 

[Mycroft]

Yeah, I spent some time on this issue and came to a slightly different conclusion. The problem is that people don't see homicide as the only reason to arm themselves. It is to prevent theft. And you won't convince them it isn't necessary in those cases.

People in England don't feel like they need a gun to prevent theft, so why should Americans?

 

[Revoltingest]

People in England don't feel like they need a gun to prevent theft, so why should Americans?

Just in case the British return.

 

[Underhill]

People in England don't feel like they need a gun to prevent theft, so why should Americans?

*shrug We feel we have a right to protect what is ours? I wouldn't think it's a far fetched notion.

 

[metis]

*shrug We feel we have a right to protect what is ours? I wouldn't think it's a far fetched notion.

But ya gotta remember that deadly force cannot legally be used if the only thing at risk is property.

 

[Mycroft]

*shrug We feel we have a right to protect what is ours? I wouldn't think it's a far fetched notion.

So you think another man's life is less important than your baubles and trinkets?

 

[Revoltingest]

So you think another man's life is less important than your baubles and trinkets?

The life of someone who'd steal from me is definitely worth less than my stuff.
But the threat of deadly force would typically be enuf to thwart the attempt.

 

[Altfish]

The life of someone who'd steal from me is definitely worth less than my stuff.
But the threat of deadly force would typically be enuf to thwart the attempt.

The US crime figures obviously back that fact up.....don't they??