Arius was correct about Jesus

[Subduction Zone]

1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

• How does that verse support that Jesus has always existed?
• Notice the and that differentiates God the Father from Jesus.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

• one God, and one mediator shows that there are two entities, God and Jesus. That means Jesus cannot be God.

Deuteronomy 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the Lord he is God; there is none else beside him.

• Why would it matter if it is OT?
• Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
  
• God is unchanging, so God cannot suddenly become a man in the NT.

Your error is in using a King James interpretation. The English can be rather difficult to understand at times. You would be better off with a more current translation:

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

 

[Subduction Zone]

like how some folk on tiktok believe that Christianity was started by Loki and Dionysus as a prank and it went too far. Someone made it as a joke just a joke they weren't serious but then folks actually believed them and now it's all over tiktok.

It's ridiculous I don't know who came up with that theory

The Christ myth theory arose due to the incredibly poor evidence for Jesus. If it was some other religion, that did not have control of a huge portion of the world for 2,000 years it would likely be rejected. In other words, why do people believe that Jesus was real? Mainly because our ancestors did. Not because of any evidence for him.

 

[VoidCat]

The Christ myth theory arose due to the incredibly poor evidence for Jesus. If it was some other religion, that did not have control of a huge portion of the world for 2,000 years it would likely be rejected. In other words, why do people believe that Jesus was real? Mainly because our ancestors did. Not because of any evidence for him.

Oh not that theory. I mean the one regarding Loki is crazy. I was responding to the with all the crazy theories folk come up with...

 

[VoidCat]

@Subduction Zone I misread your orginal comment...

I thought you were writing about how crazy someone would think Christians don't exist

 

[blü 2]

Arius was correct about Jesus. Arius lived from c. AD 256–336. He was an Christian presbyter He believed Jesus Christ is the Son of God who was begotten by God the Father with the difference that the Son of God did not always exist but was begotten within time by God the Father, therefore Jesus was not co-eternal with God the Father.

Jesus is according to the Bible God's son, Jesus is not God. Only the Father is God. In my opinion.

Any thoughts? Do you disagree or agree? Why?

I agree.

All five versions of Jesus in the NT ─ Paul's, and those of the authors of Mark, Matthew, Luke and John ─ expressly deny they're God and never claim to be God.

And as a simple matter of history, the Trinity doctrine is not invented till the 4th century CE.

 

[Subduction Zone]

@Subduction Zone I misread your orginal comment...

I thought you were writing about how crazy someone would think Christians don't exist

Yes, I screwed up and used the wrong terminology.

 

[VoidCat]

Yes, I screwed up and used the wrong terminology.

No I mean the comment I quoted at first. I was tired and only skimmed it

 

[Trailblazer]

Your error is in using a King James interpretation. The English can be rather difficult to understand at times. You would be better off with a more current translation:

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

I think the Christians changed the translation to try to make Jesus into God and this is not the only verse where that was done.

Look at the contradiction in this verse:

yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist.
And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

All things either came from God or from Jesus, all things could not have come from both God and Jesus..
And in the second sentence means there are two different entities, God and Jesus.
That means that Jesus cannot be God.

The verse below says that God was manifest in the flesh; it does not say that God became flesh.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

God cannot become flesh because God is and has always been immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived, everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men.

Jesus said that no man has ever seen God. People saw Jesus, so Jesus cannot be God.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I think the Christians changed the translation to try to make Jesus into God and this is not the only verse where that was done.
Look at the contradiction in this verse:
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist.
And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

All things either came from God or from Jesus, all things could not have come from both God and Jesus..
And in the second sentence means there are two different entities, God and Jesus.

Can you support that claim? I do not see others making it. You need more than a feeling. And the King James Bible says the same thing, it is merely harder to understand.

 

[Trailblazer]

Can you support that claim? I do not see others making it. You need more than a feeling. And the King James Bible says the same thing, it is merely harder to understand.

I don't know what you think I am claiming it means?
What do you think that verse means?

 

[rational experiences]

God O earth a planet it's gas spirit heavens.

Time shifting theist men adults humans. Only thought pondered inferred or taught by just humans as humans.

Takes the earth they stand on converts it then says in mind I time shifted the earth as a man adult. I manifested heavens god as I put gas spirit into my machine myself.

I time shifted earth into its gas. All thought acted upon... caused.

Lied. No man human is God.

God the father says two words by category one word.

God is God the state
Father changed by God the state just a human life recorded. Human adult.

Can never be the state to record as the state to record had been created in conversion history in cosmic law.

Water presence life owned communicates to water presence clouds were using in conversions the state. Our water evaporated kept safe....until too much ground removal by irradiation kills us.

No human can be God the teaching.

Science said to science... scientist you are possessed by theme spirits and meant it.

Science used calculus as a man O imposed measure by man O by recorded visionary conversion history. No spirits involved.

When man in science removed the nature garden in Egypt and other countries the visionary image of nature changed. No nature spirit in recording anymore. No more sharing visions of life.

The spirit of the living bodies eradicated. Science then accumulated visions of interactive removed nature. Evil spirits then emerged in visionary advice.

Like in movies of aliens and the end of life on earth. Takeover destruction of machines plus images portraying the outcomes. Giant bodies inferred.

Of maths mother. Maths machine designed man's conversions. Removal of mothers natural nature accumulated evil feedback monster images.

Remembering vision included man's maths science conversions that only he practiced into ancient huge gigantic earth mass shift. Recorded recordings.

Reasoned once large natural dinosaurs were bodily recorded imaged in visions. Seen in clouds also as proof recorded visions get conjured falsely.

Which in a scientists psyche he would be man advised...brother is possessed in state of AI causes. I must warn him.

However he uses the exact reason why it occurs. Science natural history O calculus only.

So humans in natural life not a scientist tell the highest truth. You both are as wrong as each other scientist when life is attacked by phenomena conditions.

As you conjured the causes. It identifies with itself and then forms evil imagery being accumulative historic of scientific causes.

To nature of life on earth.

Why science said monsters and evil spirits are not real. However humans know it is conjured by O earth mass changes.

Our consciousness hence tells the truth it is not real it was conjured. However O earth converts it's own mass itself. Be in the wrong place when it converts the human gets attacked.

Evidence life is being phenomena destroyed by earths O God. A teaching

What science never owned or used and not controlled. Mass in its nature.

Science said to science it is not science. Ignored as usual by minds who say they must understand everything. Then cause one extra new introduced evil.

Until we no longer exist in nature our teaching. The alien we said will be in visions on earth instead of life.

When someone says you only began as a hologram. When biology says two humans after ape life had human sex.

What lying in using science quotes means. Not using correctly observed information in its owned natural status.

Humans who ensure an attack that never before happened. Write about it then science tries to copy emulate it claiming it is natural.

Instead the information said was an unnatural attack on natural.

Why scientific Satanists were labelled as scientific Satanists. Believers of causing it by being advised.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don't know what you think I am claiming it means?
What do you think that verse means?

You appear to be putting your own spin on the translation. When in doubt see what more modern, and better translations say.

 

[Trailblazer]

You appear to be putting your own spin on the translation. When in doubt see what more modern, and better translations say.

I think that all the translations are saying essentially the same thing and they can be interpreted to mean more than one thing so everyone will have their own spin... What do you think they are saying?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I think that all the translations are saying essentially the same thing and they can be interpreted to mean more than one thing so everyone will have their own spin... What do you think they are saying?

My translations do not really count all that much. But the one verse that you chose from John did indicate that Jesus always existed. Everything was made through him. What ever that is supposed to mean. But since somehow the Earth was made according to the Bible then it would have had to have been "though Jesus" which would mean that he always existed in some form. I don't believe it, but that is what it appears to say.

 

[Trailblazer]

My translations do not really count all that much. But the one verse that you chose from John did indicate that Jesus always existed. Everything was made through him. What ever that is supposed to mean. But since somehow the Earth was made according to the Bible then it would have had to have been "though Jesus" which would mean that he always existed in some form. I don't believe it, but that is what it appears to say.

I do not believe it either because I believe that God is the Creator of everything, including the Earth. It is ludicrous not to mention impossible to think that a man created all things.

Most Christians believe that John 1:1-3 and John 1:14 mean that Jesus was God. I do not believe that those verses mean that Jesus is God. I have my own interpretation of those verses.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

God can never be known except through Manifestations of God which are sent by God. God sent Jesus and Jesus manifested God in the flesh.

John 1 King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Those verses are about God, not about Jesus. All things were made by God since God created the heavens and the earth.

The Holy Spirit and the Word are the appearance of God. The Spirit and the Word mean the divine perfections that appeared in Jesus Christ, and these perfections were with God. The Word does not mean the body of Jesus but rather the divine perfections manifested in Jesus. Jesus was like a clear mirror and the divine perfections were visible and apparent in this mirror. Therefore, the Word and the Holy Spirit, which signify the perfections of God, are the divine appearance. This is the meaning of the verse which says: “The Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

When God sent Jesus, God was “manifested” in the flesh and Jesus dwelt among us. God did not become flesh, but rather the divine perfections of God were manifested in Jesus who came in the flesh and revealed the Word of God to humanity.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

You can't get it any plainer than that. God was manifest in the flesh, not incarnated in the flesh. If God had been incarnated in the flesh then God would have become flesh and we would be able to see God; but Jesus said no man has ever seen God.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

 

[InChrist]

Arius was a heretic and Arianism is heresy, from my perspective and what I believe the biblical scriptures show.
Jesus is the Savior and God alone has the capability to save.
( Isaiah 45:14, 21)

 

[Truthseeker]

Arius was correct about Jesus. Arius lived from c. AD 256–336. He was an Christian presbyter He believed Jesus Christ is the Son of God who was begotten by God the Father with the difference that the Son of God did not always exist but was begotten within time by God the Father, therefore Jesus was not co-eternal with God the Father.

Jesus is according to the Bible God's son, Jesus is not God. Only the Father is God. In my opinion.

Any thoughts? Do you disagree or agree? Why?

For me the big tragedy is the in the Nicene council they were instructed by Constantine to come up with a single doctrine because he had the erroneous belief that they had to all agree on one doctrine to have unity in the Empire. As a result, no one was allowed to think for themselves without dire consequences for themselves because it was called heresy after that. An interesting fact most people don't know is that after Arius was outnumbered and voted down Constantine actually was baptized just before his death by an Arian priest.

I don't believe in uniformity of belief in a religion, rather I believe in unity in diversity.

 

[firedragon]

Who's Arius?

Its explained in the OP.

Arian heresy. It was in Turkey where Constantine organised the council of Nizea to debate and come to a consensus, where Arius lost by a show of hands and the Trinity was established as the doctrine that went on to be canonised during the end of the 4th century (council of nice 325 AD), and its called the "Athanasian Creed". Arius still had a big following after 325 for a long time, and it was the Athanasian era that put a seal on it.

Read up on the Arian heresy.

 

[firedragon]

Arius was a heretic and Arianism is heresy, from my perspective and what I believe the biblical scriptures show.
Jesus is the Savior and God alone has the capability to save.
( Isaiah 45:14, 21)

Arius said the same thing. He was just not a Trinitarian as you know it.

 

[JustGeorge]

Its explained in the OP.

Arian heresy. It was in Turkey where Constantine organised the council of Nizea to debate and come to a consensus, where Arius lost by a show of hands and the Trinity was established as the doctrine that went on to be canonised during the end of the 4th century (council of nice 325 AD), and its called the "Athanasian Creed". Arius still had a big following after 325 for a long time, and it was the Athanasian era that put a seal on it.

Read up on the Arian heresy.

When the OP was first made, there wasn't an explanation of who Arius was. I see @Meandflower has edited it to give more information to folks like me.

I've gotten enough information on him through the thread.