Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
So what? That does not show him to be wrong. It only means that he disagreed with the sort of Christianity established in the 4th century.
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Arius was correct about Jesus
- Thread starter Starlight
- Start date
I think Bible agrees with that, which I think is more important than if I agree.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:5
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
He was a wrong headed, stupid heretic. Better?
"They do not tend to be," "they rarely refute anything," but you do not know what I was referring to so you don't know if it is or not, so how can you claim that I am conflating a non-refutation with a refutation? It is rather odd.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
That does not matter. You were the one that brought up apologetics and somehow thought that your authority figures had refuted objections to the trinity.
What matters to me is that you accused me of something with no basis than an assumption about what I may have been talking about. If it doesn't matter to you then perhaps we have different ideas about what matters, which is absolutely to be expected in my view.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Dud! You brought up apologetics, though you did not use the term. I did not accuse you with "no basis". I quoted you where you brought it up. The only thing that you did not use was the word "apologetics". You are only objecting to terminology.
I was objecting to "you are conflating apologetics, ... with a refutation." While you have said "almost never is" or "rarely" or "tend not to be" and not knowing whether or not what I was referring to was a refutation or not, so you do not know if I was conflating non-refutations with actual refutations or not, yet said "you are."
Colt
Well-Known Member
A soul is born when Gods children, who have a beginning in time, begin to cooperate with doing Gods will. Each time we choose to do Gods will we are contributing to the growth of the soul which is potentially eternal. Therefore our soul did not exist in the past and will only exist in the future if we choose to remail loyal to God...so are you [ simply expressing your belief ]
What is a soul?
Are souls immortal?
If not, where do they come from, and where do they go to?
I would say that ALL human beings had a beginning in the "eternal past" ..
What does it even mean?
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
That does not answer the question of where a soul comes from.
OK .. it comes from God. How?
We know that it is not a physical thing, so saying "God creates it" is pretty meaningless really..
God is a concept .. He is eternal [ He is not male or female ]
A soul is from God, of God, belongs to God.
A belief that souls are created, and are only eternal if we go to heaven is a belief that relies on a specific interpretation of scriptural verses.
There is nothing rational about such a belief, nor is it in agreement with many other verses that teach "eternal torment".
Eternal means eternal. God has always existed and always will.
A rational belief is that souls are identical in this respect, imo.
Colt
Well-Known Member
Eternal torment is an irrational, backward belief concocted by the shamans of religion in order to scare people into belief in God.
Do you remember existing before this word? Neither does your soul because it didn't exist either.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
The vote against Arius was very close indeed at Nicaea. For a considerable time it was the preferred view of both the council and of Cesar..
Had he won the final vote it would have been the Trinitarians who were outcast as heretics.
His are the preferred views of most Christian Unitarians to this day most of whom do not see Jesus as God.
Had he won the final vote it would have been the Trinitarians who were outcast as heretics.
His are the preferred views of most Christian Unitarians to this day most of whom do not see Jesus as God.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
No. Why should anybody be scared, unless they believe it to be true? [ which I do ]
Faith is in two parts.
Hope in God's mercy [ which is greater than a mother to her child ]
..and fear of God's wrath.
In other words, no "stick" and all carrots results in an incomplete faith.
..and we end up in problem.
If it was just a case of a naughty soul is extinguished, then that soul wouldn't know what it was missing.
That makes no logical sense to me. The cosmos continues, but I am no longer.
Sounds a bit like an atheist, to me, when they say "there is nothing after death" . They would be right
A pointless comment. Many things are hidden from us .. including the magnifence of God.
..you still haven't explained what it means for "a soul coming into existence" .. WHERE FROM??
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Creationists aren't heretics.
Colt
Well-Known Member
No. Why should anybody be scared, unless they believe it to be true? [ which I do ]
Faith is in two parts.
Hope in God's mercy [ which is greater than a mother to her child ]
..and fear of God's wrath.
In other words, no "stick" and all carrots results in an incomplete faith.
..and we end up in problem.
If it was just a case of a naughty soul is extinguished, then that soul wouldn't know what it was missing.
That makes no logical sense to me. The cosmos continues, but I am no longer.
Sounds a bit like an atheist, to me, when they say "there is nothing after death" . They would be right
A pointless comment. Many things are hidden from us .. including the magnifence of God.
..you still haven't explained what it means for "a soul coming into existence" .. WHERE FROM??
There is either life, which comes from God, or death which also comes from God.
Only in a dysfunctional family do the children claim to love the father for fear of being tortured by him if they don't. Man will only truly love a good God.
I did explain that the soul comes into being on the day we choose to do Gods will rather than our human, animal will.
Maybe you cant behave unless you have a monster God of eternal torture to fear???? Some people need a God like that, who knows what they might do if they weren't afraid?
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
No it wasn't. Where do you get this stuff?
After being in session for an entire month, the Council promulgated on 19 June the original Nicene Creed. This profession of faith was adopted by all the bishops but two.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
I completely disagree, but let's not get into this soul / spirit / body thing.
I am talking about the non-physical part of us. Where does it come from? From God, surely?
Now .. we all know that God is eternal.
Behave ! God has no need of torturing anybody. If we end up in hell, it will be our own doing.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Old? If you are old I am ancient.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
How strange?
One would think that if it was so clear-cut, the dispute would have fizzled out.
Maybe the "Arian bishops" weren't present for some reason
Colt
Well-Known Member
Personality, the unique self identity, comes from God. It must come at conception. Mind is material, it can choose God or reject it. Material mind is extinguished at death. We are then at the mercy of the spirit of God to download our memory transcripts, in the new form in heaven, with our "soul" and reunited with our personality. We don't know where personality is during the sleep of death.
Dust returns to dust, we have to be rebuilt in the next life. We are powerless to do that ourselves.
Hell is fake but if it did exist God made it. Only a sick sadistic monster God would torture his kids for an eternity. Obviously primitive human minds invented hell.