Arius was correct about Jesus

[Trailblazer]

Behave ! God has no need of torturing anybody. If we end up in hell, it will be our own doing.

That's true. I believe that we make our own hell by our choices and actions.

“It is clear and evident that all men shall, after their physical death, estimate the worth of their deeds, and realize all that their hands have wrought. I swear by the Day Star that shineth above the horizon of Divine power! They that are the followers of the one true God shall, the moment they depart out of this life, experience such joy and gladness as would be impossible to describe, while they that live in error shall be seized with such fear and trembling, and shall be filled with such consternation, as nothing can exceed. Well is it with him that hath quaffed the choice and incorruptible wine of faith through the gracious favor and the manifold bounties of Him Who is the Lord of all Faiths…” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 171

 

[Trailblazer]

You're not switching to our team now, are you?
#confused

I was never on the Christian team, I am a Baha'i. But I have been close to switching to the atheist team and if only I did not believe in God you'd have me on your team because sometimes I'd love to be an atheist.

 

[muhammad_isa]

We don't know where personality is during the sleep of death.

Nor do we know where it is when we are asleep.
..nevertheless, we find ourselves conscious once more.

..we have to be rebuilt in the next life. We are powerless to do that ourselves..

I'm not saying that we can..

Hell is fake but if it did exist God made it. Only a sick sadistic monster God would torture his kids for an eternity. Obviously primitive human minds invented hell.

"obvious" to you, because you either don't understand or won't understand.
I'm not going to bombard you with Bible verses that clearly talk about eternal torment .. because I'm sure you are aware of them.

..but you have ignored my point, that God, not being "a man in the sky with a whip", does not literally torture us in fire.
It is the consequence of our own deeds.
..mental anguish, if you will. OUCH !

 

[Colt]

Nor do we know where it is when we are asleep.
..nevertheless, we find ourselves conscious once more.



I'm not saying that we can..



"obvious" to you, because you either don't understand or won't understand.
I'm not going to bombard you with Bible verses that clearly talk about eternal torment .. because I'm sure you are aware of them.

..but you have ignored my point, that God, not being "a man in the sky with a whip", does not literally torture us in fire.
It is the consequence of our own deeds.
..mental anguish, if you will. OUCH !

Hell in the Bible was translated from the term "death".

Have you done something that deserves eternal punishment in whatever you think hell is???? What was that???

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I was never on the Christian team, I am a Baha'i. But I have been close to switching to the atheist team and if only I did not believe in God you'd have me on your team because sometimes I'd love to be an atheist.

Heh...there is a certain simplicity to it.
But I get it. I had some Christian friends told me I pretty much acted Christian anyway.
(Err...I liked them, and they meant it as a compliment, so I bit my tongue on a couple of responses that sprang to mind)

But ultimately I don't believe in God. I could follow every tenet of some theist religion or another, and I'd remain an atheist.

 

[Shadow11]

Well that was the argument it was this doctrine or the trinity doctrine Christianity accepted the trinity doctrine.

Arius, a priest from Alexandria, Egypt, taught that Christ, because He was the Son of God, must have had a beginning and therefore was a special creation of God. Further, if Jesus was the Son, the Father of necessity must be older.

Opposing the teachings of Arius was Athanasius, a deacon also from Alexandria. His view was an early form of Trinitarianism wherein the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were one but at the same time distinct from each other.
With the emperor's approval, the Council rejected the minority view of Arius and, having nothing definitive with which to replace it, approved the view of Athanasius—also a minority view. The church was left in the odd position of officially supporting, from that point forward, the decision made at Nicaea to endorse a belief held by only a minority of those attending.

The groundwork for official acceptance of the Trinity was laid—but it took more than three centuries after Jesus Christ's death and resurrection for this teaching to emerge.

The ongoing disagreements were at times violent and bloody. Of the aftermath of the Council of Nicaea, noted historian Will Durant writes, "Probably more Christians were slaughtered by Christians in these two years (342-3) than by all the persecutions of Christians by pagans in the history of Rome" (The Story of Civilization, Vol. 4: The Age of Faith, 1950, p. 8). Atrociously, while claiming to be Christian many believers fought and slaughtered one another over their differing views of God!

I will also note Constantine was not a Christian he had a death bed baptism.

Haven't enough people died deciding this doctrine or does it need to happen again.

You could always become an LDS member which is closer to what you believe.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Creationists aren't heretics.

Really? Since when is a belief that calls God a liar not heresy?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Have you done something that deserves eternal punishment in whatever you think hell is????

I don't think so..
..but I'm concerned in case I do

 

[Trailblazer]

Heh...there is a certain simplicity to it.

Yeah, that's what I like about it.

But ultimately I don't believe in God. I could follow every tenet of some theist religion or another, and I'd remain an atheist.

But ultimately I believe in God, so unless someone can prove that God does not exist, I will remain a believer.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..unless someone can prove that God does not exist, I will remain a believer.

God willing

..but watch out for the dajal [ the Beast ]
He will claim to be God, and will cause dead people to become alive.
He will blind us with science

 

[Wildswanderer]

Really? Since when is a belief that calls God a liar not heresy?

That has to be the most ridiculous thing I've heard today.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That has to be the most ridiculous thing I've heard today.

That is only because you are probably very ignorant of the sciences. People that understand the sciences can see how creationists are claiming that God is a liar.

Let me rephrase it for you. The only way that the Genesis myths could be true is if God is a liar since all of the objective evidence out there proves them to be wrong. God would have had to have planted endless false evidence, which is a form of lying, for those myths to be true. And we are not just speaking of fossil evidence. That is only the most obvious lies that he would have had to have planted. There is endless evidence for evolution and none to the contrary. Where did that evidence come from? If you say "Satan" then you are saying that Satan can and has changed the DNA of every animal living on the face of the Earth.

 

[Wildswanderer]

That is only because you are probably very ignorant of the sciences. People that understand the sciences can see how creationists are claiming that God is a liar.

Let me rephrase it for you. The only way that the Genesis myths could be true is if God is a liar since all of the objective evidence out there proves them to be wrong. God would have had to have planted endless false evidence, which is a form of lying, for those myths to be true. And we are not just speaking of fossil evidence. That is only the most obvious lies that he would have had to have planted. There is endless evidence for evolution and none to the contrary. Where did that evidence come from? If you say "Satan" then you are saying that Satan can and has changed the DNA of every animal living on the face of the Earth.

This isn't an evolution thread.
And you are obviously ignorant about what creationists teach.

 

[InChrist]

Arius said the same thing. He was just not a Trinitarian as you know it.

One who denies the Triune God is a heretic, in my view and I believe according to the biblical scriptures.

 

[Subduction Zone]

This isn't an evolution thread.
And you are obviously ignorant about what creationists teach.

Oh I know what creationists teach. There is a whole range of their ignorance. But you can choose the version that you want. And it is not just the creation myth that requires on to believe in a lying God. The Noah's Ark myth requires that too. You were the one that denied that creationists are heretics and I was merely explaining why they were.

 

[Subduction Zone]

One who denies the Triune God is a heretic, in my view and I believe according to the biblical scriptures.

That is a bit of a circular argument since the Bible as you know it was not formed until the 4th century. Heretics are just those that did not agree fully with the books chosen to be in the Bible.

 

[InChrist]

That is a bit of a circular argument since the Bible as you know it was not formed until the 4th century. Heretics are just those that did not agree fully with the books chosen to be in the Bible.

I don’t share your view. The nature of God was understood and scriptures were in place and shared among the early church well before the 4th century.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Oh I know what creationists teach. There is a whole range of their ignorance. But you can choose the version that you want. And it is not just the creation myth that requires on to believe in a lying God. The Noah's Ark myth requires that too. You were the one that denied that creationists are heretics and I was merely explaining why they were.

Have fun finding a Christian who agrees with your ridiculous interpretation of theology.

 

[savagewind]

Arianism was very successful in early Middle Ages, especially among Germanic tribes such as Lombards, Vandals...etc...

It deals with a heresy that deserves respect.

But I fully disagree with it. Jesus is God. He has always existed. It is present everywhere in the New Testament, and particularly in John 1:1.

That said I love and respect all Christians. Several Churches who still exist nowadays can be defined "Arian".
It is a theological aspect.

Just so you know...because knowing is precious, isn't it?... I call that 'friendly< because you wrote that some heresy deserves repect. Thank you!

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don’t share your view. The nature of God was understood and scriptures were in place and shared among the early church well before the 4th century.

That is only your belief, but it is not supported by history. There was quite a range in belief. The fact that we are discussing one of the individuals that had different beliefs demonstrates that. They were not rebels, or haters of Jesus. They simply had different beliefs. They did not buy the self contradicting trinity story that appears to have been largely invented to cover up some of the self contradictions in the Bible. And you really have no idea how well supported the beliefs of others were because most of those competing works were destroyed.