Arkansas inflicts child abuse on its school children

[ImmortalFlame]

Please describe this supposed proven treatment and how this helps children.

The treatments vary between individuals depending on the level and kind of dysphoria. If diagnosed with early onset dysphoria (diagnosed in children), it is recommended that a child first be given extensive medical examination to identify the level of the dysphoria and establish the best treatment for the child. This can often simply be a degree of counselling or therapy, but it is also often that an individual level of dysphoria is so high that experiencing puberty of the non-associated gender could be deemed significantly harmful to the child's mental wellbeing. To combat this, the most common prescription is puberty blockers that delay a male/female puberty until such a time that the child is able to legally consent to further gender reassignment procedures or decides to stop and have a natural puberty of their own accord (or if health experts deem it to be appropriate to stop treatment for other reasons). By this point, almost nothing in the process is irreversible. If the child wishes not to transition, or if the dysphporia is misdiagnosed, the blockers can be stopped and the child can have a natural puberty.

Beyond this, there is social and medical transition. While it is common for people who grew up with gender dysphoria to decide to medically transition once they reach adulthood, it is becoming increasingly common for them to decide to forgo medical transition entirely and simply adopt social transitioning (which involves adopting their preferred gender expression, using and encouraging other people to use the correct pronouns, changing their name and other legal documents, etc.). Studies show that going through these processes significantly reduce the likelihood of both children and adults to self-harm, exhibit mental illness or commit suicide.

What are the root causes of this psychological condition?

Difficult to say, but there is evidence to sugget a biological or genetic component to it. Studies on trans female brains, for example, have shown certain difference in brain structure from those of cis men. Other studies suggest a genetic link, when it was discovered that there is a higher rate of shared trans identity in twins than in non-twin siblings. But these studies are in their infancy, and social and cultural factors cannot be dismissed entirely.

The point is that transgender people harm nobody by merely expressing their identity, and it is proven that acknowledging trans people as being their associated gender (or no associated gender) significantly reduces harm to those people, while denying their gender and constantly misgendering them leads directly to harm. We have a moral obligation, therefore, to help trans people by accepting them for who they are and protecting them from persecution or oppression.

 

[ElishaElijah]

What's wrong and perverted about helping children with a psychological condition by using a treatment that is proven to reduce their likelihood of future mental health problems and decrease their suicide rate?

Will give you this article because it expresses what I’m communicating to you on this subject. The Absurdity of Transgenderism: A Stern but Necessary Critique - Public Discourse

 

[ElishaElijah]

We have a moral obligation, therefore, to help trans people by accepting them for who they are and protecting them from persecution or oppression.

There isn’t any disagreement with treating every human being with honor and respect. We differ on the best way to help people and what’s appropriate or inappropriate for schools to teach especially in a society where these views differ significantly. So teach the subjects where there is agreement and leave the rest out of the curriculum, or make it like a college where you have basic studies and freedom to choose others or opt out.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Will give you this article because it expresses what I’m communicating to you on this subject. The Absurdity of Transgenderism: A Stern but Necessary Critique - Public Discourse

I don't care much for opinion pieces. I could provide you a hundred essays written by transgender people, scientists and specialists all explaining the harm done by transphobia and anti-trans attitudes like the ones expressed in that essay, but I doubt it woulf hold much weight for you. Also, this essay is obviously pretty poor. It seems to operate under the baseless assumpion that trans people are somehow confused about their own biology, while never once acknowledging the difference between sex and gender. It's just misinformed nonsense.

My argument is based on facts and material harm. It is a fact that misgendering trans people leads to harm, and helping trans people transition decreases that harm. If you disagree with this, then you are in favour of ideologies which cause more harm than good.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

There isn’t any disagreement with treating every human being with honor and respect. We differ on the best way to help people and what’s appropriate or inappropriate for schools to teach especially in a society where these views differ significantly.

Do you not agree with the overwhelming scientific consensus, then?

So teach the subjects where there is agreement and leave the rest out of the curriculum, or make it like a college where you have basic studies and freedom to choose others or opt out.

There are literally no subjects (except maybe mathematics) where Universal agreement is even possible. The fact is that the treatment of trans people is accepted by the overwhelming scientific consensus, and is supported by the preponderance of available evidence on the subject.

I also find it odd that I took the time to write a lengthy explanation (albeit general and simplified) of the processes that go in to treating gender dysphoria and you have no response to it whatsoever - not even a cursory "thankyou for the information".

Why is it that you are so keen to avoid discussing facts in this debate? Are you capable of acknowledging that your preconceptions about how gender dysphoria is diagnosed and treated in children are wrong?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Do you not agree with the overwhelming scientific consensus, then?

Overwhelming scientific consensus on what?

 

[ElishaElijah]

I don't care much for opinion pieces. I could provide you a hundred essays written by transgender people, scientists and specialists all explaining the harm done by transphobia and anti-trans attitudes like the ones expressed in that essay, but I doubt it woulf hold much weight for you. Also, this essay is obviously pretty poor. It seems to operate under the baseless assumpion that trans people are somehow confused about their own biology, while never once acknowledging the difference between sex and gender. It's just misinformed nonsense.

My argument is based on facts and material harm. It is a fact that misgendering trans people leads to harm, and helping trans people transition decreases that harm. If you disagree with this, then you are in favour of ideologies which cause more harm than good.

In that “opinion piece” He sites the suicide rate study and other things, he also cites his credentials. I gave you that to try to clear up any misconceptions you may have on what I’m communicating. Did you even look or read it? If not fine but you said suicide rates drop when this study shows the opposite. This article makes perfect sense and accurate.

 

[ElishaElijah]

There are literally no subjects (except maybe mathematics) where Universal agreement is even possible. The fact is that the treatment of trans people is accepted by the overwhelming scientific consensus, and is supported by the preponderance of available evidence on the subject.

Treatment of trans people as well as other psychological disorders are accepted by most everyone. And just by the way you frame your comments are deceptive and dishonest because the actual treatments you propose are not overwhelmingly supported.
So have a nice day, good talking to you, thank you for your views and information. And done.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Overwhelming scientific consensus on what?

That trans people exist and that the best way to treat gender dysphoria is by transition.

 

[ElishaElijah]

That trans people exist and that the best way to treat gender dysphoria is by transition.

False

 

[ImmortalFlame]

In that “opinion piece”

Why the inverted commas? It IS an opinion piece, not a scientific paper.

He sites the suicide rate study and other things,

No, all he does is mention a study that showed people who have had gender reassignment are more likely to commit suicide than THE GENERAL POPULATION, while deliberately omitting the fact that the suicide rate in trans people post-medical transition is still LOWER than the suicide and depression rates of trans individuals BEFORE transition, and that the leading causes of suicide and depression among trans people are lack of social acceptance and family support. That's called cherry-picking, and it is a strategy used by the dishonest in order to manipulate people.

he also cites his credentials.

Which have nothing to do with gender science, so they are irrelevant.

I gave you that to try to clear up any misconceptions you may have on what I’m communicating.

How does presenting somebody else's opinion clear up misconceptions about your opinions? Just present your opinions.

Did you even look or read it? If not fine but you said suicide rates drop when this study shows the opposite. This article makes perfect sense and accurate.

This is a perfect example of how that article mislead you. It does NOT say that suicide rates increase, it just says that suicide rate is still higher than than the general (i.e, non-trans) population.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Treatment of trans people as well as other psychological disorders are accepted by most everyone. And just by the way you frame your comments are deceptive and dishonest because the actual treatments you propose are not overwhelmingly supported.

Yes, they are. They are supported by the vast majority of medical bodies and the WHO. You are, again, factually wrong.

So have a nice day, good talking to you, thank you for your views and information. And done.

Do you or do you not admit that your views on the diagnosis and treatment of children with gender dysphoria were inaccurate?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

False

You are literally denying facts right now.

 

[ElishaElijah]

You are literally denying facts right now.

No I haven’t ignored the facts but you are. And the facts are that most children grow out of any confused feelings and should be dealt with outside of school, you’re not even sure the cause of these feelings yet you prescribe a treatment. When someone becomes an adult then they can make that decision. The other fact is no matter how a person feels about themselves they can never change their sex, that’s a fact.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

No I haven’t ignored the facts but you are.

Nope. You are the one denying the established medical consensus and accepting the random opinions of uninformed people as a basis for your position.

And the facts are that most children grow out of any confused feelings and should be dealt with outside of school, you’re not even sure the cause of these feelings yet you prescribe a treatment.

Firstly, "confused feelings" is not the same thing as actual, diagnosed gender dysphoria.

Secondly, just because we cannot pin down one singular cause for gender dysphphoria does not prevent us from assessing what actions lead to better outcomes in the treatment of it. The science on this is clear: treatment that denies the gender identity of people diagnosed with gender dysphoria leads to further harm, and treatment which affirms their gender identity reduces harm.

I am in favour of reducing harm.

When someone becomes an adult then they can make that decision.

So, you didn't bother reading my post where I explained that this has basically always been the case?

The other fact is no matter how a person feels about themselves they can never change their sex, that’s a fact.

You're correct.

They can, however, change their GENDER.

Hence, trans-GENDER. The clue is in the name.

 

[ecco]

Never thought of it that way, probably not seen as God said be fruitful and multiply and fill the Earth. Childbearing is a blessing from the Lord. Miscarriage and abortion are result of sin, not God’s plan but consequences of our rebellion and bringing sin into the world Adam and Eve.

Typical preprogrammed blind acceptance apologetics:
Good: GodDidIt
Bad: Adam's fault

You, of course, ignore that your God knew A&E would disobey Him long before He ever created them. More preprogrammed blind acceptance.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Typical preprogrammed blind acceptance apologetics:
Good: GodDidIt
Bad: Adam's fault

You, of course, ignore that your God knew A&E would disobey Him long before He ever created them. More preprogrammed blind acceptance.

The problem is your view of God, your own blindness and ignoring what lengths God went to redeem us.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Nope. You are the one denying the established medical consensus and accepting the random opinions of uninformed people as a basis for your position.


Firstly, "confused feelings" is not the same thing as actual, diagnosed gender dysphoria.

Secondly, just because we cannot pin down one singular cause for gender dysphphoria does not prevent us from assessing what actions lead to better outcomes in the treatment of it. The science on this is clear: treatment that denies the gender identity of people diagnosed with gender dysphoria leads to further harm, and treatment which affirms their gender identity reduces harm.

I am in favour of reducing harm.


So, you didn't bother reading my post where I explained that this has basically always been the case?


You're correct.

They can, however, change their GENDER.

Hence, trans-GENDER. The clue is in the name.

The problem is with human beings image of themselves and the problem is their lack of relationship with their Creator. When this image and relationship is restored the problem is solved.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Nope. You are the one denying the established medical consensus and accepting the random opinions of uninformed people as a basis for your position.


Firstly, "confused feelings" is not the same thing as actual, diagnosed gender dysphoria.

Secondly, just because we cannot pin down one singular cause for gender dysphphoria does not prevent us from assessing what actions lead to better outcomes in the treatment of it. The science on this is clear: treatment that denies the gender identity of people diagnosed with gender dysphoria leads to further harm, and treatment which affirms their gender identity reduces harm.

I am in favour of reducing harm.


So, you didn't bother reading my post where I explained that this has basically always been the case?


You're correct.

They can, however, change their GENDER.

Hence, trans-GENDER. The clue is in the name.

The problem is with human beings image of themselves and the problem is their lack of relationship with their Creator. When this image and relationship is restored the problem is solved.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

The problem is with human beings image of themselves and the problem is their lack of relationship with their Creator. When this image and relationship is restored the problem is solved.

Okay. Then all you have to do is demonstrate that a creator exists and exactly what relationship that creator prefers.

Also, the fact that I write these lengthy explanations and responses to you and you can only manage to respond to the odd paragraph just demonstrates to me that you are noy debating in good faith, and not considering opposing views. If your views were accurate and well substantiated, I would expect more effort from you.