Arranged Marriages

[Jayhawker Soule]

Do you believe that societies (that do have arranged marriages) are incapable of exactly the same thing, poor wisdom, being naive or using peer pressure thereby setting them up for failure ... ?

No.

... or do you believe that societies are not capable of learning or changing?

No.

It doesn't matter to me whether you care that I look down on arranged marriages or not, ...

That says much about you.

DUET. 32.8 You specifically stated that I had a cultural bias, how can you state I have a cultural bias if you don't even know what it is?

One can be biased against something in much the same way as one can be biased for something.

... , I look down on most societical control and conditioning as a whole and I don't care what excuse is used, religious or otherwise.

Would that include republicanism, civil law, societal guidelines governing etiquete, etc.?

 

[Dr. Nosophoros]

One can be biased against something in much the same way as one can be biased for something.

That still doesn't answer the question, you stated I have a cultural bias, but you have also said you have no idea which culture I represent.

Would that include republicanism, civil law, societal guidelines governing etiquete, etc.?

Absolutely, but I said "most societical control and conditioning" not all.

 

[Isis-Astoroth]

Personally, I think both arranged marriages, and 'choice' marriages can be either bound for success, or doomed to failure. It depends on the situations, and the people, in those marriages.

 

[prash4]

Here is an interesting read:

http://prash4.esmartdesign.com/lmam.htm

 

[almifkhar]

look at it like this, arranged marrages have a much lower divorce rate then those based on "love". i know of only 2 arranged marrages which have ended in divorce, and i know of 30 non arranged marraged that ended in divorce, infact i know of only 2 non arranged marrages that still exist and one of them desires to divorce. i know of 30+ arranged marrages and like said before only 2 divorced and none of the rest seeks a divorce. i think that people put too much emphasis on love. love is something that grows marrage is about creating family, having a life long partner and friend. for a family to arrange a marrage means to cement ties in the community, insures diginity of their childrens reputation and that of the families involved. in islam, those to be married have the right to agree or disagree to the marrage. we are not allowed under the religion to date so arranging is the custom. for those sons and daughters who are forced to marry a person they just don't want to marry is wrong.

 

[prash4]

I am a Hindu, and I think either type of marriages are ok - they are two inherently different systems. Neither one is superior to the other, it's only the husband and wife who can determine the success or failure of their relationship.

Why American marriages have 50% divorce rate? It is not because love marriages fail, but because of their mentality - Americans cannot tolerate even the slightest of abuse, and they always demand equal respect from either sex. That's why they are very open about their relationship - if things do not work out, they very freely go for a divorce & place less emphasis on their kids (who may or may not like to the divorce).

Whereas, Indian mentality is totally opposite - we adjust and put up with all **** & somehow get along with each other. We always try to customize ourselves to our dearest ones' liking and we always try to make others happy. Also, we Indians believe in marriage as a sacred union of two humans of the opposite sex, meaning that once we marry, we 'coalesce' to form an invincilble union. Such a union is formed by sexual intercourse after marriage.

Americans (also British, Germans, russians and all Protestants) have perverted this idea by indirectly encouraging premarital sex, extramarital sex and above all the most evil thing - the divorce and remarriage system. Once this system was adopted, divorce has become all too common in American society, over the generations.

We Indians, like Catholics, are strictly against divorce (at least catholics discourage it, whereas a lot of Indians don't even know what it means in the first place!) meaning that even if our relationship turns sour, or (face it) our parents 'screwed up' in the arrangement - we still have to live together until death do us part. Even though India is undergoing westernization & lot of people are now changing their attitudes, believe me - deep inside are these values ingrained in our blood cells, from our ancestors passed through our parents to us & will probably be the same for ever.

 

[Sunstone]

I'm not sure that we should measure the success of a marriage solely by its duration. I've seen unhappy marriages last a very long time. But does the mere fact that a marriage lasts a long time indicate that its successful?

 

[prash4]

I'm not sure that we should measure the success of a marriage solely by its duration. I've seen unhappy marriages last a very long time. But does the mere fact that a marriage lasts a long time indicate that its successful?

You have a point there, Sunstone. But in my personal opinion, I think the success of a marriage depends mainly on the duration - because, I believe the ultimate purpose of marriage is to raise your kids, give them as much of your love and encouragement & help them develop a good personality and give them good brains and hard-working mentality.

If your purpose of marraige is just to keep loving your wife/husband, then you don't even have to marry in the first place - you can just live your life as lovers in cohabitation.

So, I think even if you are having an abusive married relationship - you have to somehow work it out & stay together, as your kids will still have a mother and father to come to. That is extremely important. Because, in my personal opinion, they would be better off with a 'fighting' mom and dad, rather than seeing their mom with a totally different stranger

 

[Sunstone]

Having once been in an abusive relationship, I cannot fathom why you would believe that an abusive relationship was somehow better than divorce. When a spouse abuses their partner, they usually abuse their kids too. So, the notion that the abuse stays just between the spouses is probably invalid. And even if it does, have you considered what effect it has on the kids to witness one of their parents abusing the other?

 

[Master Vigil]

I also agree that a divorce is MUCH better than an abusive relationship. Better for both the parents and kids. Also, kids who are grown up in abusive households become abusive themselves. Its just not a good environment.

 

[prash4]

I can understand what you are trying to say - even my parents had a healthy relationship was very healthy for the first 15 yrs or so when they were very loving and caring towards each other & they passed on their love to me and my sister. However, things took a shocking turn due to financial circumstances & my dad resorted to abuse once he got into depression. He started fighting with my mom and made her cry at times, and I had to console her everytime. It made me feel as bad as my mom did, when she was at the recieving end of abuses. But everytime he did that, the next day he would call all of us onto the table, talk to us & apologize for his rude behaviour & give a family hug Everything will resume to normal. This was about a year ago since I left my parents to come to the US for studies. Apparently now the abuses have stopped, but my dad is yet to recover from his depression. But I still have my dad and mom to support me for my education, and with my job I will support them in their future.

If an American woman was in my mom's place, what would she do? Just think about it.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

I can understand what you are trying to say - even my parents had a healthy relationship was very healthy for the first 15 yrs or so when they were very loving and caring towards each other & they passed on their love to me and my sister. However, things took a shocking turn due to financial circumstances & my dad resorted to abuse once he got into depression. He started fighting with my mom and made her cry at times, and I had to console her everytime. It made me feel as bad as my mom did, when she was at the recieving end of abuses. But everytime he did that, the next day he would call all of us onto the table, talk to us & apologize for his rude behaviour & give a family hug Everything will resume to normal. This was about a year ago since I left my parents to come to the US for studies. Apparently now the abuses have stopped, but my dad is yet to recover from his depression. But I still have my dad and mom to support me for my education, and with my job I will support them in their future.

If an American woman was in my mom's place, what would she do? Just think about it.

Well, if she suffered from battered wife syndrome, she'd do exactly the same thing your mother is.

 

[michel]

PART QUOTE: Prash 4 ['But I still have my dad and mom to support me for my education, and with my job I will support them in their future.']



'I will support them in their future' - very laudable; however - Marie (My wife) has spent most of her life looking after her parents; in their later years, I had to look after mine (though it was mostly my father, after mum had died).

Marie and I have both made a pact that we will never put ourselves in the position of our sons having to look after us; we know what a toll it has taken (As well as a pleasure most of the time), especially for Marie.

She virtually had no childhood (she became her parent's carer at the age of about twelve-long involved story). She was still looking after them when she met me, and we married; (nearly 29 years)- two years after our marriage, she had our first son. and so she bacame a parent in her own right.

Now the 'Kids ?' have left home, and, of coursewhilst her father passed away 15 years ago, her Mum is very demanding. We don't want to put our own children through that.

 

[prash4]

lady_lazarus, if that is what you call some wierdo syndrome, then that applies to nearly 90% of Indian women.

Because, in our society of arranged marriages, when a girl reaches a marriageable age - her parents choose the suitable groom for her & invite his parents to their house, or even the other way round. Then, their marriage is fixed - their parents give her the following statement and advice:

"This is your husband, he is of our caste & sub-caste and comes from a very reputed family. He is the guy whom you will have sex with; he is the guy with whom you will bear kids; he, on the other hand, will work and earn money for the family, while you have to stay at home, look after the kids, do all the household duties & your husband will be busy with his own professional work & will come home exhausted - then you will comfort him, and give him all the pleasure he needs. When he falls ill, you will take utmost care of him - even if it distracts you from your work patterns. Besides all that, you must stick to him and share his feelings and make him happy whenever he is sad; no matter how he reacts to you - whether he is excited, happy, joyous, kind, or even sad, angry, abusive, shouting, physical - you should always stand by him and prove that you are the woman for him, the one whom he can trust and love for eternity."

This is just a glimpse of premarital 'training' that many Hindu women are given when they are engaged. No wonder why our marriages have such long duration and almost negligible divorce rate.

 

[standing_on_one_foot]

Out of curiosity, what is the guy told?

 

[prash4]

Nothing much, I guess. The wife always obeys her husband.

 

[morgan]

Hmmm what about free will and all that? I for one am glad we dont do that here. What if you are arranged with someone you absolutely cant stand..or worse are downright abusive??? Im glad we dont do that arranged marriage thing in the States. But this is just my opinion..lol

 

[prash4]

I guess you just get used to that person... I agree it's bad, but that's how abusive marriages work

 

[standing_on_one_foot]

Why doesn't the guy go through marriage training too? Y'know a "don't abuse your wife" training might not hurt, you think about it. Stand by your wife, take care of her, be the person she can trust and love, 'coz she's going to be doing the same for you...of course, I don't think the success of a marriage is measured purely by it's duration.

Arranged marriages can work. But I don't think that means abuse should be put up with in them. It's not fair to the people involved.

 

[prash4]

Dude, that's our Indian tradition - we believe (and a lot of traditional communities around the world do too) that man is the aggressor, but woman is the pacifier. A man can be whatever he wants to be, but his wife should always stand by him, be forebearing and support him for whatever he is.

Americans and Protestants do not believe in the same way.

Arranged marriages may work, but they never guarantee that the relationship will be as good as it is initially - things will change with time, personalities change, financial circumstances change - this is the same even with Love marriages. Abuse may set in at any time, but unpredictable. It is ultimately the people involved in the relationship who can handle it.