Arrested for weed

[Thief]

You have absolutely no clue; you're not accidentally on point.



That doesn't throw me off of anything. I can think of 100 more ways to even out the statics, but that's got nothing to do with the point I made.

You keep trying to make excuses for people who break the law, and that's all you're doing.

The ranting of a blind conformist.

Obey for the sake of obedience?

That makes your obedience shallow.

 

[HonestJoe]

Do you think that people should be obliged to obey unjust laws?

I don't think it's just that I'm not allowed to kill you and take all your stuff.

 

[Thief]

I don't think it's just that I'm not allowed to kill you and take all your stuff.

To be honest....that was quite a jump.

 

[Sunstone]

I don't think it's just that I'm not allowed to kill you and take all your stuff.

Are you trying to say you feel obligated to obey every unjust law ever written?

 

[cablescavenger]

I've never been arrested for possession or consumption of any substance. In fact I don't smoke... anything. I just thought the thread title would gather a crowd. This thread is to vent my frustrations at how many lives are ruined because our government and the "great" law enforcement in this nation have demonized a plant which, when consumed or inhaled or whatever else, is less dangerous than caffeine.

Our politicians can get drunk in public, and people kill themselves with addictive substances like tobacco, but god forbid some college students smoke bud. Sigh.

I could understand you saying that if it was true, but sadly it isn't.

Cannabis and mental health

My wife works in mental health and sees youngsters that would have had productive lives suffering from psychotic illness from cannabis.

I think the reason you do not see it legalised is because it would not pass the strict compliance testing to put a drug on the market.

People do not really know the effects, they think nothing is happening to them because it is not a physical pain, but they may well be affected by it, and be completely unaware.

It is known that it is harmful to the brain, but how do you measure that harm? What is the acceptance criteria for mental impairment for a drug being released on the market?

It is a wolf in sheep's clothing. People assume it is safe, but do not see the real story. Psychosis from smoking cannabis is common. And puts a young brain, under 30 years of age, at considerable risk of impairment.

I am not for criminalising the young, but I am not for releasing cannabis into the community either. I am not sure what the answer is, but legalisation is not it.

It is a bit like the gun. Just because people want it, doesn't mean it is safe to give it to them.

 

[HonestJoe]

Are you trying to say you feel obligated to obey every unjust law ever written?

As a rule, I feel obliged to obey the law in general. Don't you? There might be rare hypothetical exceptions in serious matters of life and death but this is about recreational drug use so comes nowhere near that.

I'm not so arrogant as to believe that just because I've decided a law is unjust that I can go ahead and break it whenever I want - my example was deliberately extreme but the principal is the same. If I object to a particular law, I may well campaign and argue for it to be changed. If the majority disagree with me though, that's just tough (maybe it even means I'm wrong).

There is also the aspect that using drugs while they are illegal tends to involve supporting wider criminal organisations, with potentially serious consequences (however far away they might be). Even if legalisation of something is strongly supported, using it while it remain illegal could still be seriously unjustifiable.

 

[not nom]

I don't feel sorry for you, at all.

for something coming from someone who doesn't smoke weed, that made surprisingly little sense

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That doesn't throw me off of anything. I can think of 100 more ways to even out the statics, but that's got nothing to do with the point I made.

You keep trying to make excuses for people who break the law, and that's all you're doing.

Then what are your proposals? During alcohol prohibition people made fortunes from bootleg alcohol. Arresting people obviously done nothing to prevent gangsters from making money and buying weapons. Alcohol was made legal again and no one is making money to buy weapons from bootleg alcohol anymore.
Drug sells are so good that even the CIA got in on it to fund the Contras in Nicaragua. Drug Cartels fund their wars from drug sells, and gangs purchase weapons that kill each other and innocents from drug sells. If drugs are legalized and sold legally, drug cartels and gangs loose their cash flow and will not be able to afford weapons or wars. Not too mention it would end the problem of jail over crowding as it would free up over one million jail and prison spaces, which would save the tax payers alot of money. It would also make it easier for people to get addiction help, as they would not have to worry about legal repercussions from seeking addiction treatment. It is an imaginary worry, but nevertheless it keeps many from seeking the help they need.

What I think is just, or unjust is irrelevant because it's the law, period. Why can't you understand this?

Wow, just....wow. Following a law just because it's the law is the dumbest excuse ever. It use to be the law in several states that you could legally kill someone just for being a Mormon. Would you have followed this law just because it's the law? If it was the law to you had to kill your children over disobedience, would you follow such a law? The government LOVES people like you. They will spoon feed you whatever crap they spew, and people like you will never challenge them. Very simply, America would not have broken from England, Gandhi would not have worked up people against England, racial segregation would not have been challenged, and dictatorships would rarely fall if all people had your mentality.

I think the reason you do not see it legalised is because it would not pass the strict compliance testing to put a drug on the market.

And alcohol and tobacco would? Two very dangerous, destructive, deadly, and highly addictive drugs? Alcohol is actually the most deadly and destructive drug there is, but it's excessive consumption, which causes addiction and destruction and deterioration of many organs, is tolerated. But pot, which is smoked by musicians, artists, actors, doctors, lawyers, honor society students, white collar workers, blue collar workers, politicians, laborers, paupers, elites, those who want peace, those who want war, and people from any other position or walk of life, is viewed as being worse than heroin.
Actually one of my good friends makes the Dean's List at school every semester, is in the honor society, is highly respected by teachers and peers, has a good work reputation, and is admired by her employers for her work ethic, and she smokes alot of pot. She smokes while doing homework, before going to school, she gets a small buzz before work, and sometimes during work. It's only reckless because of the possible legal issues, but it's obviously not detrimental to her school or work performance. And when she goes without she does just as well, and does not have any withdrawals or yearnings to get high. She just loves her pot is all.

 

[outhouse]

I've never been arrested for possession or consumption of any substance. In fact I don't smoke... anything. I just thought the thread title would gather a crowd. This thread is to vent my frustrations at how many lives are ruined because our government and the "great" law enforcement in this nation have demonized a plant which, when consumed or inhaled or whatever else, is less dangerous than caffeine.

Our politicians can get drunk in public, and people kill themselves with addictive substances like tobacco, but god forbid some college students smoke bud. Sigh.

only you decided to break the law.

dont like it? learn to not get caught.

 

[Iti oj]

I could understand you saying that if it was true, but sadly it isn't.

Cannabis and mental health

My wife works in mental health and sees youngsters that would have had productive lives suffering from psychotic illness from cannabis.

I think the reason you do not see it legalised is because it would not pass the strict compliance testing to put a drug on the market.

People do not really know the effects, they think nothing is happening to them because it is not a physical pain, but they may well be affected by it, and be completely unaware.

It is known that it is harmful to the brain, but how do you measure that harm? What is the acceptance criteria for mental impairment for a drug being released on the market?

It is a wolf in sheep's clothing. People assume it is safe, but do not see the real story. Psychosis from smoking cannabis is common. And puts a young brain, under 30 years of age, at considerable risk of impairment.

I am not for criminalising the young, but I am not for releasing cannabis into the community either. I am not sure what the answer is, but legalisation is not it.

It is a bit like the gun. Just because people want it, doesn't mean it is safe to give it to them.

sure but so is caffeine and tobacco and alcohol. damn advil is more damaging to the liver...... every heard of a high dude coming home and beating his wife? IU have never backed out from weed. i just laugh and eat a lot some times i pass out.,

I been prescribed meds from dr.s my whole life liker adderal and lexipro etc.... let me tell you adderal has done more mental emotional and physical harm then weed has done. I would stay up for weeks straight not eating. I would freak out break down and cry hate myself hate the world and hate that damn mess... the only reasonb i survived was because i smoked enough weed to get the munchies and to force myself to pass out. Weed saved mylife. Ive seen kids use weed to break other drug addiction like i used to get over my legal speed adiction/ **** what the system says, they think a drug exactly like meth is ok. Guys i cant smoke my join but its cool if i tweak out an amphetamines? word. lets eat some pills guys. seriously this entire post is ignorant. what the FDA approves is what makes them money with minimal risk off lawsuits. weed they can not regulate thus fear it.


Really man so its cool if i put poisonous deadly metals like lithum im my body? cause its gov approved? so highly additive PKs are ok? Legalized meth is ok?



i been smoking pot for 10 years on speed for a lil stronger recently broke my addiction payed for my health insurance. I have gone years with out smoking no promlem 3 days with out my script i would cry and beg people to find me some. Not to mention i was not myself. at all nor was i happy i was high strong paranoid addicted to porn i would get soooo strong out from my normal dose where drinking alchol was necessary. it gave me ocd and bipolar disorder and sores on my body.

 

[Shermana]

it would not pass the strict compliance testing to put a drug on the market.

If you say that there's always strict compliance to put a drug on the market, you don't know the FDA and its bureaucracy very well. So why aren't they outlawing Alcohol and Nicotine by this logic? Why did alcohol require a constitutional ammendment but other drugs don't?

It is known that it is harmful to the brain,

Not really. It's known that there are faulty government studies (and we know the government never ever lies for political or ideological purposes, never!) that completely ignore the other studies.

Marijuana might cause new cell growth in the brain - health - 13 October 2005 - New Scientist

But of course, why trust independent scientists when we have the honest government who never ever lies?

 

[Iti oj]

to those who think weed is bad for the mind body and emotional health... lets do a study. group a smokes pot every day group b eats at burger king every day. group c does both......who do you think will be heather at the end of lets say 3 months?

 

[Two-bit guru]

The weed was a medicine for 5,000 years, and an illegal drug in America for 74 years.
Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

 

[Thief]

As a rule, I feel obliged to obey the law in general. Don't you? There might be rare hypothetical exceptions in serious matters of life and death but this is about recreational drug use so comes nowhere near that.

I'm not so arrogant as to believe that just because I've decided a law is unjust that I can go ahead and break it whenever I want - my example was deliberately extreme but the principal is the same. If I object to a particular law, I may well campaign and argue for it to be changed. If the majority disagree with me though, that's just tough (maybe it even means I'm wrong).

There is also the aspect that using drugs while they are illegal tends to involve supporting wider criminal organisations, with potentially serious consequences (however far away they might be). Even if legalisation of something is strongly supported, using it while it remain illegal could still be seriously unjustifiable.

I see the weigh scale you are using...do you?

The majority should rule?...if only we did.

As with tobacco and alcohol, the majority did rule....however....
The minority have made suit to oppose and have won.
Tobacco is on it's way out but not because of majority rulings.
Laws suits have frightened owners of establishments.
The work place no longer allows smoking....because someone filed suit...and won.
Bars and restaurants have followed 'suit'.
I hear someone in my local area is moving toward abolishing tobacco in public parks.

Pot smokers are still the minority....and will always be.
The majority are conformists, and are willing the law as is.
The law as is doesn't affect them...they don't really care.

Should conformity rule?...you think the majority does?

Eventually, the law will change...but not because the majority said so.
The economics control the scheme of things.
As soon as Uncle Sam can find a means of control....
manufacture, distribution, sale and use....
It will be legalized and taxed.

Finding 'control'...is the actual problem.
Declaring marijuana a 'controlled substance' has been a lie...
from the day the prohibition of it was written.

 

[cablescavenger]

sure but so is caffeine and tobacco and alcohol. damn advil is more damaging to the liver...... every heard of a high dude coming home and beating his wife? IU have never backed out from weed. i just laugh and eat a lot some times i pass out.,

I been prescribed meds from dr.s my whole life liker adderal and lexipro etc.... let me tell you adderal has done more mental emotional and physical harm then weed has done. I would stay up for weeks straight not eating. I would freak out break down and cry hate myself hate the world and hate that damn mess... the only reasonb i survived was because i smoked enough weed to get the munchies and to force myself to pass out. Weed saved mylife. Ive seen kids use weed to break other drug addiction like i used to get over my legal speed adiction/ **** what the system says, they think a drug exactly like meth is ok. Guys i cant smoke my join but its cool if i tweak out an amphetamines? word. lets eat some pills guys. seriously this entire post is ignorant. what the FDA approves is what makes them money with minimal risk off lawsuits. weed they can not regulate thus fear it.


Really man so its cool if i put poisonous deadly metals like lithum im my body? cause its gov approved? so highly additive PKs are ok? Legalized meth is ok?



i been smoking pot for 10 years on speed for a lil stronger recently broke my addiction payed for my health insurance. I have gone years with out smoking no promlem 3 days with out my script i would cry and beg people to find me some. Not to mention i was not myself. at all nor was i happy i was high strong paranoid addicted to porn i would get soooo strong out from my normal dose where drinking alchol was necessary. it gave me ocd and bipolar disorder and sores on my body.

Alcohol, tobacco and caffeine are already being sold, and have been for a very long time. Caffeine would pass the test, but alcohol and tobacco would not be allowed on the market if they came along now.

I have no doubt that some drugs are undoubtedly a lot more harmful than cannabis, you are talking about powerful drugs, put together for a medical solution to health problems.

The problem with legalisation of marijuana, is that if it was legalised you are exposing the population to risk of psychotic illness, and I suspect the vast majority of users would not be seeking a medical solution, but a substance abuse solution, thereby increasing the risk.

 

[cablescavenger]

If you say that there's always strict compliance to put a drug on the market, you don't know the FDA and its bureaucracy very well. So why aren't they outlawing Alcohol and Nicotine by this logic? Why did alcohol require a constitutional ammendment but other drugs don't?

I would agree. There seems to be a reluctance to remove harmful products like tobacco and alcohol. I believe they should be removed too, on exactly the same grounds, so I agree with you.

Not really. It's known that there are faulty government studies (and we know the government never ever lies for political or ideological purposes, never!) that completely ignore the other studies.

Marijuana might cause new cell growth in the brain - health - 13 October 2005 - New Scientist

But of course, why trust independent scientists when we have the honest government who never ever lies?

Not all science is funded by Govt.

The link between mental health issues and cannabis are well known.

My wife works in mental health, and has seen many people who have only smoked cannabis suffering from severe mental illnesses, and the sufferers too have said they are convinced it was the cannabis that triggered their illness.

So I am not relying on Govt funded biased science, but first hand accounts from people at the sharp end of the problem.

I only dug a link out to illustrate the problem with cannabis.

 

[cablescavenger]

The weed was a medicine for 5,000 years, and an illegal drug in America for 74 years.
Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Given you place a higher value on the age of a cure, rather than it's effectiveness at actually curing anything, then perhaps we should replace of all modern day cures with magic and exorcism.

 

[Thief]

Alcohol, tobacco and caffeine are already being sold, and have been for a very long time. Caffeine would pass the test, but alcohol and tobacco would not be allowed on the market if they came along now.

I have no doubt that some drugs are undoubtedly a lot more harmful than cannabis, you are talking about powerful drugs, put together for a medical solution to health problems.

The problem with legalisation of marijuana, is that if it was legalised you are exposing the population to risk of psychotic illness, and I suspect the vast majority of users would not be seeking a medical solution, but a substance abuse solution, thereby increasing the risk.

You suspect?.....

Millions are lighting up right now, as I type these words.
If the 'psychosis' you allege was there, I think everyone would know it to be true, as common knowledge.

This same allegation dissipated decades ago.
"Reefer Madness" was the film of choice in an attempt to frighten the masses away from casual use.
It did quite the opposite, and proved an embarrassment to the makers of the so called drama-documentary.

 

[cablescavenger]

You suspect?.....

Millions are lighting up right now, as I type these words.

I don't doubt this is true.

I used the word suspect because the anally retentive on this site pick at words and then accuse you of manipulating reality, in order o justify some agenda.

I am not accusing you of this, I am just explaining why my language was tempered. I would have said "pretty sure", if we were in conversation.

If the 'psychosis' you allege was there, I think everyone would know it to be true, as common knowledge.

The link I provided was from the Royal College of Psychiatrists. Not something I have alleged. If you do not accept that, give me the name of a body who you would listen to and I will find something else. The link also claims high corelation with depression sufferers too.

The link suggests that correlation evidence is used, but causation is harder to prove. This presents a problem, because doubters will always be able to deny, or defend against the hypothesis that cannabis use can cause mental illness, because how can you prove causation of any mental illness? You will probably only ever be able to collect evidence based upon correlation. However if you collect many studies, and the correlation is always consistent, you have a smoking gun.


Regarding the second half of the statement "I think everyone would know it to be true, as common knowledge." is making an assumption that because something is true, it will become common knowledge, but I am sure you can think of plenty of things which are not known by many.

This same allegation dissipated decades ago.

So research is still being carried out because...

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Given you place a higher value on the age of a cure, rather than it's effectiveness at actually curing anything, then perhaps we should replace of all modern day cures with magic and exorcism.