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Arrogance of religion

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
How could I justify something that human thought is unable to reach? You'll never understand it.

Better yet what is the point of you and the other dude rambling nonsense
I was going to leave you to your claim that you have reached Brahman through thought alone, but since you chose to rattle the cage of "the other dude"...

Your error here is that you made a positive falsifiable claim, so the onus is on you to validate that claim.

What is achieved through thought can be justified through the same. So since you say you have reached Brahman through thought you should have no problem not only justifying how you reached Brahman through thought and communicating the experience to others, but you should be able to tell us what Brahman is. As of now, you have done neither. All you've done is made a weak and unsubstantiated argument that there is a contradiction in the Upanishads. So please back this up share with us first what Brahman is, and then how you have reached Brahman through thought to support your claim of contradiction.

The point is that the generalization you made in your OP intended to flame others who find truth in scripture has some gaping holes in it.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Well it's impossible for humans such as yourself, and religion made many nonsensical claims, did you force them to back them up?
As expected. Evasions.
They have clearly written the methods by which Brahman can be experienced. Any sincere person can easily follow the methods and check for themselves. No belief necessary.
 

Eliana

Member
More like itching to educate. Someone who brings up the word argument on a post like that could be said to be the one itching for one. Spot the hypocrisy and projection

Nobody asked you to come educate us, and you're not 1/10th as smart as you think you are. In order for me to be a hypocrite I'd have to be doing one thing and saying another... I haven't done that. Learn what words mean.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
How can people act like written text translated and misinterpreted and filled with contradictions is factual and talk like because something is written in one of those books that it should be taken as fact
Perhaps I am in the minority in this room, but it doesn't bother me if my religious text is not historically accurate or contains contradictions or got edited over time, etc. It inspires me, brings me closer to God, and helps me to become a better person. Isn't that what ultimately matters?
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
How can people act like written text translated and misinterpreted and filled with contradictions is factual and talk like because something is written in one of those books that it should be taken as fact
Some people are arrogant. In any worldview. Even Atheists. But it's not necessarily because they are arrogant that they believe their books are worthy of following. They might even take them as fact if they have some stories relating to some kind of history. But that's not necessarily arrogance.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
A trust that as a person of faith, God would not lead them to an incorrect understanding.
And yet all they have to do is look out onto the world around them to see all sorts of people who have faith in all different kinds of things, and yet they don't agree. God may be many things, but one thing he is not: He is not going to protect us from our mistakes.
 
Nobody asked you to come educate us, and you're not 1/10th as smart as you think you are. In order for me to be a hypocrite I'd have to be doing one thing and saying another... I haven't done that. Learn what words mean.
I was approached by several members here to come educate so don't speak for the general populous
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I was approached by several members here to come educate so don't speak for the general populous
ROFL!!!! So you think that random people with no authority asking you to come here somehow establishes you as the official teacher of Religious Forums????? That it puts you above us?????

I have news for you, bud. You have no authority, no title, no position. You are a regular Joe just like me and every other person in this forum. When you put on airs, all it does is make others disgusted with you, and then everything you say goes in one ear and out the other.

Now, if you are willing to let go of your arrogance, come back down to earth, and have a regular discussion with me and others, I'm all for that. I suggest you think that over.
 

Viker

Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
How can people act like written text translated and misinterpreted and filled with contradictions is factual and talk like because something is written in one of those books that it should be taken as fact
Because either they want to or can't help themselves but believe so.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
And yet all they have to do is look out onto the world around them to see all sorts of people who have faith in all different kinds of things, and yet they don't agree. God may be many things, but one thing he is not: He is not going to protect us from our mistakes.

Yes, that is why there is forgiveness.
And, according to Paul, Romans 8:28, All thing work together for the good of those who love God. Which would include our mistakes.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
How can people act like written text translated and misinterpreted and filled with contradictions is factual and talk like because something is written in one of those books that it should be taken as fact
I would offer it is the arrogance of man that they would reject the Word given of God, for any petty reason they choose to do so.

Regards Tony
 

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
I was approached by several members here to come educate so don't speak for the general populous
Oh good! We were lost until you decided to grace us with your presence. Please keep us in the loop on when you plan to transition from baseless claims to education.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
One can read everything has been written about Brahman...listen to every lecture by every sage...and still remain in ignorance of the nature of Brahman. Brahman isn't attainable through thought, so it is verily beyond the reach of thought.
God may be many things, but one thing he is not: He is not going to protect us from our mistakes.
These are the kinds of ideas that lead me to believe that thought about gods and ultimate reality and participation in a religion as well as the relatively fruitlessness of my prior efforts there aren't productive use of time. I really don't know what either of your get out of that. I also have no concept of Brahman nor look to gods for protection, but that leads me away from religious activity.

You're both intelligent, mindful, and decent people, and I like to think that I am as well, also seeking truth and goodness. But I find no value in theism, religion, or religious contemplation. There has been nothing of value for me there, and so it's no longer a part of my life. I wonder why that is.
Bible is not like that. I don't understand how some can claim it is, even though they can't prove it.
The Bible IS like that, but you can't see it due to a faith-based confirmation bias. You believe a priori that the Bible is the flawless word of a tri-omni deity, and so that's what you see. I see all kinds of internal contradiction, scientific and historical error which believers will call anything but that, and intellectual and moral errors attributed to what is called a tri-omni god.
I would offer it is the arrogance of man that they would reject the Word given of God, for any petty reason they choose to do so.
What's arrogant is for you to expect people to follow you and to call them arrogant for refusing to do so.

It is arrogant of you to think that your scriptures come from a deity and diminish others for disagreeing (arrogant, petty) when they're words most of literate humanity could have written.

My reason to reject your claims about your scriptures is not petty. Skepticism, or the willingness to challenge claims and to require more than just claims before believing, is one of the greatest ideas man has ever had. It alone frees us from the tyranny of superstition. It transformed astrology and alchemy into astronomy and chemistry. It transformed creationism into modern biology and cosmology. It transformed ossified, received morals into rational ethics.
 

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
These are the kinds of ideas that lead me to believe that thought about gods and ultimate reality and participation in a religion as well as the relatively fruitlessness of my prior efforts there aren't productive use of time. I really don't know what either of your get out of that. I also have no concept of Brahman nor look to gods for protection, but that leads me away from religious activity.

You're both intelligent, mindful, and decent people, and I like to think that I am as well, also seeking truth and goodness. But I find no value in theism, religion, or religious contemplation. There has been nothing of value for me there, and so it's no longer a part of my life. I wonder why that is.
It has already been explained by another Hindu in this thread and by me elsewhere on the forum that though Brahman is not attainable through thought alone, It can be experienced directly. For some, it may be through a spontaneous mystical experience; for others it may take many years of practice, and yet for others, they may never experience Brahman in their lifetime despite their dedication to their practice.
 

Jimmy

King Phenomenon
It has already been explained by another Hindu in this thread and by me elsewhere on the forum that though Brahman is not attainable through thought alone, It can be experienced directly. For some, it may be through a spontaneous mystical experience; for others it may take many years of practice, and yet for others, they may never experience Brahman in their lifetime despite their dedication to their practice.
Sounds like how some Christians will never get to truly know “Jesus”.
 
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IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Yes, that is why there is forgiveness.
And, according to Paul, Romans 8:28, All thing work together for the good of those who love God. Which would include our mistakes.
What possible relationship does any of this have to do with my remark that you quoted?

Quote: One thing is certain, a pitbull is a kind of dog.
Reply: Yes, and that is why we should be so grateful for Taylor Swift.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
What possible relationship does any of this have to do with my remark that you quoted?

Quote: One thing is certain, a pitbull is a kind of dog.
Reply: Yes, and that is why we should be so grateful for Taylor Swift.

You said God doesn't protect us from our mistakes.
There is no need to.
So while agreeing with you, your post doesn't detract from what I said.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
What's arrogant is for you to expect people to follow you and to call them arrogant for refusing to do so.

It is arrogant of you to think that your scriptures come from a deity and diminish others for disagreeing (arrogant, petty) when they're words most of literate humanity could have written.

My reason to reject your claims about your scriptures is not petty. Skepticism, or the willingness to challenge claims and to require more than just claims before believing, is one of the greatest ideas man has ever had. It alone frees us from the tyranny of superstition. It transformed astrology and alchemy into astronomy and chemistry. It transformed creationism into modern biology and cosmology. It transformed ossified, received morals into rational ethics.
Firstly, I have no expectations for any other person, I am only responsible for my own self.

The arrogance of man knows no boundaries, those who appears in this creation in a blink of eternal time, thinking that they have any authority of opinion over any other man or creature.

The Messengers are born from the eternal source of creation. They are not men like us.

It is to that Spirit, that I hope to disolve my arrogance into nothingness.

Regards Tony
 
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