Article, “Internal Proofs of Bible Authenticity”

[Hockeycowboy]

Allow me to rephrase what I said before.

Do the JWs even realize that their beliefs run completely contrary to what Jesus taught regarding what our attitude should be regarding this world?
It's kind of sad when a Baha'i has to be pointing out what is in the Bible since it is not even our holy book.

John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

Matthew 6:19-21 Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Does it 'matter' to you what Jesus said?

Why do JWs love their lives on Earth so much that they want to be resurrected back to life so thy can live on Earth forever?

Why do JWs lay up their treasures on Earth instead of in Heaven?

This goes against what Jesus has instructed us to do.


If you would answer my questions I would not have to say you are like a kid who just wants a lollipop.
You are either like a kid who wants a lollipop or you do not care what Jesus said, as noted above. You cannot have it both ways.

What does this even mean?

We are no part of this world…. storing “treasures on the Earth”? We don’t!

It - this world - is going down!
1 John 2:15-17; James 4:4

There’s a big difference between this planet & the world on this planet!

The vast majority of JW’s, including me, hope to be part of “the meek [who] will inherit the Earth.” (Matthew 5:5; psalms 37:10,11,29)

I’m not answering your questions? I have been… you just don’t like the answers.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

God has ‘appointed times’ for the fulfillment of His purpose, but that purpose will be fulfilled by humans, NOT by God.
God is not going to 'step in' to fulfill His purpose.

Of course He is! It’s God’s purpose, no one else’s.

Psalm 46:9 (which I quoted) says “He is bringing an end to wars…”

He is Jehovah.

Man can’t even “direct his step.” Jeremiah 10:23. How can you quote that, and say it doesn’t apply? It tells you right there, man is incapable of self-rule, and we have 6,000 years of evidence that man is inept.


Like I asked, how’s that going?
Wake up.

‘God won’t step in’… grief, it is pretty much what the Bible’s all about: the sanctification / making hallowed of Jehovah’s Name, the vindication of His sovereignty, and the role His Son Jesus plays as Savior and in executing Jehovah’s judgements. — 2 Thessalonians 1:6-8

Who will “bring to ruin those ruining the earth”? (Rev.11:18)
This is fruitless…. For someone who doesn’t accept the Bible, you sure make a lot of statements claiming that you understand it.

Well, here’s something to chew on…

The Bible teaches that the soul dies…and stays dead!

Leviticus 19:28…

Leviticus 21:1…

Leviticus 21:11…

Numbers 5:2…

Numbers 6:6…

Numbers 6:11…

Numbers 19:13…

Deuteronomy 14:1…

Ezekiel 18:4…

Ezekiel 18:20…

..and so many others.

Use a Hebrew interlinear, like what BibleHub.com has…. It should enlighten you.

The concept of the “immortal soul”, is not found in the Bible.

In fact, such a doctrine conflicts with Jesus’ future Resurrection promise (John 5:28,29; John 6:40), for if the dead are already ‘living in another realm’, as is often taught, then there’s no need to bring them back to life…..

“To resurrect is to bring back from the dead…Resurrecting always involves bringing something back to life.”

Resurrect - Definition, Meaning & Synonyms

To resurrect is to bring someone back from the dead. You can also resurrect things that are inactive or out of use.

www.vocabulary.com

 

[shunyadragon]

You speak words without knowledge.
Archaeology has consistently verified it is reliable.

Where do you get your (mis)information?
All you have to do, is find an unbiased, reliable stele or relic that refutes a Biblical Event.

The academic archaeology and historical evidence cited repeated on this forum document the fact that the Pentateuch is not reliable accurate history.

Example: (1) The geologic, archeological evidence demonstrates that the Noah flood never happened as described in the Bible. It is based on more ancient Sumerian and Babylonian texts of events in the Tigris Euphrates Valley.. (2) There is absolutely no known text of the Pentateuch before 600 BCE to confirm the provenance and authorship of the events recorded. (3) The documented archeological and historical evidence and Egyptian texts confirms there was never an invasion by a Joshua army in the Levant, because it was occupied and colonized by the Egyptians at the time. We have absolutely no known independent evidence that Joshua ever existed, (4) The Hebrew language did not exist before 800 BCE. All we have is scrapes of Canaanite texts related to the Hebrews before 800 BCE.

Can you provide any independent text evidence before 600 BCE that confirms the text of the provenance and authorship of the Pentateuch?

 

[shunyadragon]

I agree.

The article provides independent sources.

The article only refers in internal (not proofs?) justification for the historicity of the Pentateuch. It provided no independent evidence.

 

[shunyadragon]

There is genealogy extending over 50 pages in the Hindu Puranas. Therefore they must be true.

True?

 

[shunyadragon]

Great article, covering many facets!
I think it deserves its own thread:

Internal Proofs of Bible Authenticity | 2001 Commentaries

The following is an excellent Jewish source concerning the fact that there is no "independent" evidence for Exodus as described in the Pentateuch

The Exodus: Does archaeology have a say?

The Exodus is so fundamental to us and our Jewish sources that it is embarrassing that there is no evidence outside of the Bible to support it.

www.jpost.com

The Exodus: Does archaeology have a say?​

The Exodus is so fundamental to us and our Jewish sources that it is embarrassing that there is no evidence outside of the Bible to support it.​

By STEPHEN GABRIEL ROSENBERGAPRIL 14, 2014 07:21


The short answer is “no.” The whole subject of the Exodus is embarrassing to archaeologists. The Exodus is so fundamental to us and our Jewish sources that it is embarrassing that there is no evidence outside of the Bible to support it. So we prefer not to talk about it, and hate to be asked about it.For the account in the Torah is the basis of our people’s creation, it is the basis of our existence and it is the basis of our important Passover festival and the whole Haggada that we recite on the first evening of this festival of freedom. So that makes archaeologists reluctant to have to tell our brethren and ourselves that there is nothing in Egyptian records to support it. Nothing on the slavery of the Israelites, nothing on the plagues that persuaded Pharaoh to let them go, nothing on the miraculous crossing of the Red Sea, nothing. Nothing at all. There are three Pharaohs who said they got rid of the hated foreigners, but nothing to say who the foreigners were, and no Pharaoh is named as having persecuted foreign slaves or suffered unspeakable plagues.

 

[Trailblazer]

What does this even mean?

It means....

1 John 2
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

We are no part of this world…. storing “treasures on the Earth”? We don’t!

The injunction from Jesus not to lay up for yourselves treasures on earth is figurative, not literal.
It means what it says in 1 John 2:15 -- Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.

Matthew 6:19-21 Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

You and all the JWs lay up your treasures on earth since you love the world so much that you want to spend all of eternity on earth.
Apparently you do not even realize that this goes completely against what Jesus taught, which is why I pointed it out.

It - this world - is going down!
1 John 2:15-17; James 4:4

Those verses that you cited do not say that this world is going down.
However, the old world order is indeed going down and a new world order is rising in its stead.

"Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 6-7

There’s a big difference between this planet & the world on this planet!

The world is this planet. It is called Earth.

The vast majority of JW’s, including me, hope to be part of “the meek [who] will inherit the Earth.” (Matthew 5:5; psalms 37:10,11,29)

The only way that you and them will be “the meek [who] will inherit the Earth.” is if you are alive when the new world order is rolled out.

I’m not answering your questions? I have been… you just don’t like the answers.

No, you did not answer my questions.

Where’s the Scripture that says that those going to Heaven have a job to rule with Christ?

Where’s the Scripture that says that those who “belong to Christ”, those who were “chosen” to rule, will be resurrected back to life and go to heaven?

Where does the Bible refer to the physical Earth being restored?

Please cite any Scripture that says that anyone who has died will be brought back to life to live on Earth.

Please cite any Scripture that says that God will make more room for people to live on Earth.

 

[Trailblazer]

Of course He is! It’s God’s purpose, no one else’s.

Psalm 46:9 (which I quoted) says “He is bringing an end to wars…”

He is Jehovah.

He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; He breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; He burneth the chariot in the fire. Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
Psalm 46:9-11 KJV - Bible.com

God makes wars to cease unto the end of the earth by sending a messenger who reveals scriptures that instruct humans how to make wars cease.
That has been done. It was done when God sent Baha'u'llah with the instructions for humanity to follow.

Man can’t even “direct his step.” Jeremiah 10:23. How can you quote that, and say it doesn’t apply? It tells you right there, man is incapable of self-rule, and we have 6,000 years of evidence that man is inept.

Jeremiah 10:23 O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

So you think that verse means that God is going to take over and direct man's steps?
The verse does not say that.

Like I asked, how’s that going?
Wake up.

It is going just fine.
Wake up.

‘God won’t step in’… grief, it is pretty much what the Bible’s all about: the sanctification / making hallowed of Jehovah’s Name, the vindication of His sovereignty, and the role His Son Jesus plays as Savior and in executing Jehovah’s judgements. — 2 Thessalonians 1:6-8

Who will “bring to ruin those ruining the earth”? (Rev.11:18)
This is fruitless…. For someone who doesn’t accept the Bible, you sure make a lot of statements claiming that you understand it.

God steps in by sending messengers to Earth. Jesus was one such messenger.

Well, here’s something to chew on…

The Bible teaches that the soul dies…and stays dead!

You are clueless as to what Bible verses mean.
The destruction of the soul means separation from the life of God.

Well, here’s something to chew on…

Soul Cannot Die

The Scripture says the spirit, or soul, cannot be annihilated. Though the body may die, the spirit will live on. Death, therefore is not the end of conscious life. It is the separation of the body and the spirit. The spirit, however, lives on in another realm. The body is only the temporary residence of humans. Jesus said.

Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Matthew 10:28).
Destroy has the idea of punish, not annihilate. The destruction of the soul means separation from the life of God. Though living, the soul of the unbeliever has no connection whatsoever to God.

Can the Spirit, or Soul, Be Destroyed?

The Bible teaches that humans are made up of both body and spirit. Life begins when the two are united, and life ends when the two are separated. Death Of The

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[sayak83]

True?

I was being sarcastic

 

[jimb]

The academic archaeology and historical evidence cited repeated on this forum document the fact that the Pentateuch is not reliable accurate history.

Example: (1) The geologic, archeological evidence demonstrates that the Noah flood never happened as described in the Bible. It is based on more ancient Sumerian and Babylonian texts of events in the Tigris Euphrates Valley.. (2) There is absolutely no known text of the Pentateuch before 600 BCE to confirm the provenance and authorship of the events recorded. (3) The documented archeological and historical evidence and Egyptian texts confirms there was never an invasion by a Joshua army in the Levant, because it was occupied and colonized by the Egyptians at the time. We have absolutely no known independent evidence that Joshua ever existed, (4) The Hebrew language did not exist before 800 BCE. All we have is scrapes of Canaanite texts related to the Hebrews before 800 BCE.

Can you provide any independent text evidence before 600 BCE that confirms the text of the provenance and authorship of the Pentateuch?

The Pentateuch is not meant to be "accurate history", any more than an article about academic archaeology or historical evidence is meant to instruct anyone about God.

a) I spent enough time in academia to know that there is always differing proof on any given subject, especially in areas like archeology or history.

b) Why do you on and on and on and on about this one subject? Speaking for myself, I don't care and I'm sure many others agree.

 

[SkepticThinker]

That is a bad translation, which sometimes happens with the King James Version

Exodus 21:20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.
(NIV)

Wow, that's even worse.

 

[Truthseeker]

Be still, and know that I am God

We have that verse on the wall between the dining room and the kitchen!

 

[shunyadragon]

The Pentateuch is not meant to be "accurate history", any more than an article about academic archaeology or historical evidence is meant to instruct anyone about God.

a) I spent enough time in academia to know that there is always differing proof on any given subject, especially in areas like archeology or history.

b) Why do you on and on and on and on about this one subject? Speaking for myself, I don't care and I'm sure many others agree.

First, those that wrote, compiled and edited the Pentateuch believed what they wrote and meant it to be actual history. The authors of the NT and the Church Fathers considered the Pentateuch historically accurate history.

Speak for your self, from 40-50% of Christians today believe in a literal or nearly literal Pentateuch. There beliefs involve rejecting rge academic archeology and history of the Middle East, and the sciences of evolution and the academic history of the earth, and contemporary cosmology,

The Doctrines of some churches require a literal interpretation of the Pentateuch as historically accurate.

I am responding to @Hockeycowboy who believes the above and I was responding to him not you.

 

[shunyadragon]

I was being sarcastic

OK

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Great article, covering many facets!
I think it deserves its own thread:

Internal Proofs of Bible Authenticity | 2001 Commentaries

Internal remarks can never prove that any text is the word of God. For example:

Surat Ash-Shu'ara (26:192-194): "Indeed, it is a revelation from the Lord of the worlds. The Trustworthy Spirit (Gabriel) has brought it down upon your heart, [O Muhammad] – that you may be of the warners."

 

[Hockeycowboy]

True?

He was being facetious.

That’s a problem you seem to have: you reply to posts, without following the context.

“He who responds to a matter before he hears the facts, that is foolish on his part and a humiliation.” Proverbs 18:13

Of course, in this case it could be you just don’t get sarcasm.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Can you provide any independent text evidence before 600 BCE

The silver scrolls.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

That’s a problem you seem to have: you reply to posts, without following the context.

Because with written language you don't see a person's body language or hear their voice, it is extremely common to not correctly identify humor or sarcasm. Let's cut people a break.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Matthew 10:28).

The Greek word is not Hades, which is rendered hell. It does not say “Hell” or “Hades” there.

The word Jesus used there, is “ge•enna”, “Gehenna”

Destroy has the idea of punish, not annihilate.

That is not what “destroy” means!

I see you didn’t check an interlinear which would help you learn.

I’m going to try again….
Did you know animals are souls? And souls die?

Revelation 16:3,

King James Bible
“And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.”

Now you’re gonna say, “that’s just the animals.”

No!

Numbers 6:6….
Smith's Literal Translation
“All the days of his consecrating himself to Jehovah, he shall not go in to a dead soul.”

It’s a shame that, on BibleHub even, this is the only translation wording the above correctly!
The Hebrew verse literally says, “dead soul”, but translators have always had an agenda to promote, the Pagan idea of the immortality of the soul, ie., immediate life-after-death, so they say “body”, or “person”.

Just like many have twisted the Bible to make it seem “Jesus-is-God”, so they have with the soul, making people think it can’t die.


Please, enrich your knowledge by using a respected Hebrew-English interlinear for the OT, and a Greek-English Interlinear for the NT.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The Greek word is not Hades, which is rendered hell. It does not say “Hell” or “Hades” there.

The word Jesus used there, is “ge•enna”, “Gehenna”

For whatever its worth, the Jewish concept of Gehenna (greek) or Gehinnom (Hebrew) refers to a TEMPORARY hell where we are purified for the resurrection and the world to come. It is far, far more similar to the Catholic idea of Purgatory than to the idea of an eternal hell where the torture never ends.

The Hebrew word that most closely corresponds to the greek word Hades would be Sheol, the abode of the dead, sometimes translated as the netherworld. It is neither heaven nor hell, and is believed to be below the earth.