And if one treats it with the mocking contempt of some snot nosed junior high school kid one insults a good many Jews.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Article, “Internal Proofs of Bible Authenticity”
- Thread starter Hockeycowboy
- Start date
-
- Tags
- accuracy bible trustworthy
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Then those people are simply oversensitive. Those people should be aware of how the Bible has been abused to harm others. The interpretation that I gave showed why it is an error to abuse the Bible that way. It was aimed at those that cannot deal with reality without getting their noses pushed into their errors. It all has the warming "If one interprets the Bible literally" If one does not make that error it clearly does not apply to them.
The TLDR version is "If God cannot lie then Genesis cannot be read literally". That does not have the same effect on people.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Trailblazer said:
Did Adam and Eve die when they ate the forbidden fruit?Their physical condition changed as a result of their eating the forbidden fruit. As God had promised, they became mortal. They and their children would experience sickness, pain, and physical death. Because of their transgression, Adam and Eve *also* suffered spiritual death.Chapter 6: The Fall of Adam and Eve
I did post that but I did not write that, so it is not something that 'Trailblazer said.'
I agree with part of it but not all of it.
I agree with: They and their children would experience sickness, pain, and physical death. Because of their transgression, Adam and Eve *also* suffered spiritual death
I disagree with" As God had promised, they became mortal.
Show me where in the Bible it says that Adam and Eve were immortal before they ate the fruit.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It might, but only if I thought those scriptures meant what you think they mean.
This is not about what God needs, it is about what humans need. God has no needs.
The reason that God put us here on the Earth is so we could learn the lessons that we need to learn before we go to the spiritual world (Heaven).
This world is kind of like a classroom, where we develop the spiritual qualities that we will need in the spiritual world.
"Why do spiritual beings--human souls--begin their lives in the physical world? According to well-known Baha'i author, scholar, and educator John Hatcher, the world is a classroom designed by God to instigate and nurture mental and spiritual growth. The Purpose of Physical Reality examines the components of this classroom to show how everyday experience leads to spiritual insight. Viewing life in this way, we can learn to appreciate the overall justice of God's plan and the subtle interplay between human free will and divine assistance in unleashing human potential. The idea of physical reality as a divine teaching device not only prepares us for further progress in the life beyond, it also provides practical advice about how to attain spiritual and intellectual understanding while we are living on earth."
No, God is not going to do jack squat. God expects humans to clean up and straighten out the messes that they made.
None of those verses say that God going to straighten / clean up these conditions on Earth, so where do these Christian beliefs come from?
God revealed what humans need to straighten up their own messes so God expects us to do so.
“This is the Day in which God’s most excellent favors have been poured out upon men, the Day in which His most mighty grace hath been infused into all created things. It is incumbent upon all the peoples of the world to reconcile their differences, and, with perfect unity and peace, abide beneath the shadow of the Tree of His care and loving-kindness. It behoveth them to cleave to whatsoever will, in this Day, be conducive to the exaltation of their stations, and to the promotion of their best interests. Happy are those whom the all-glorious Pen was moved to remember, and blessed are those men whose names, by virtue of Our inscrutable decree, We have preferred to conceal.
Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.”
It is not unjust, it is simply the way history unfolded. Humans had to go through what they went through in the past in order to get to where we are today.
People who died in the past do not need another chance to live on Earth because they went to a much better place called Heaven, and they would never want to come back here.
There is never going to be a perfect Earth, with perfect people. You are living in a complete fantasy that you constructed by misinterpreting Bible verses and taking them out of context.
Nothing that JWs believe about the afterlife is supported by the Bible. People who have died and were buried are not going to be put back together again by God and resume living on Earth. Nowhere does the Bible say that.
Do you even realize how ridiculous this sounds? How do you think this would play out in reality?
If everyone who has ever died was brought back to life to live on Earth, how could earth sustain that much population?
If nobody ever dies again on Earth, as JWs believe, then how could any more births occur?
It is really sad that the JW church has convinced so many people of these beliefs, but one would gave to be a totally nonthinking person to fall for them.
Tell me, where in the Bible does it say “Earth is the destination”?
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
The Father's house is in Heaven, not on Earth.
John 5
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
I guess you think that means literal graves.... It means graves of spiritual ignorance from which they will come forth, not physical graves in the ground.
Christians have a complete misunderstanding of what resurrection means.
The Resuscitation of Man from the Dead and His Entrance into Eternal Life
421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351
I am not going to argue about the story of Adam and Eve since I believe it is only an allegory, not anything that ever happened.
Psalms 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.
That verse is correct. Earth is our home as long as we are alive and living on Earth, but it is no longer our home after we are dead and buried in the ground.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Isaiah 35:1-6
35 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.
2 It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the Lord, and the excellency of our God.
3 Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.
4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.
5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.
6 Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.
Isaiah 35 is not about a coming beautiful paradisaical world. Those verses are prophecies about what we will see after the return of Christ.
Isaiah prophesied that the Plain of Sharon and the holy mountain, Carmel, would both be centers for the light and presence of the ‘Glory of the Lord’ in the last days.
"the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the Lord, and the excellency of our God."
All these prophecies were fulfilled after Christ returned with a new name which was Baha'u'llah.
~~~~~~
Do the JWs even realize that their beliefs run completely contrary to what Jesus taught regarding what our attitude should be regarding this world?
It's kind of sad when a Baha'i has to be pointing out what is in the Bible since it is not even our holy book.
John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
Matthew 6:19-21 Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
But apparently it doesn't 'matter' to you what Jesus said. You just want what you want, like a little kid wants a lollipop.
Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else
That verse is correct. God himself formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited:
The Earth was created to be inhabited by LIVING people, not to be inhabited by DEAD people who rose from their graves.
Last edited:
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
And the Bible has harmed millions and millions and millions and millions of people for thousands of years and continues to do so.
That is why I am so vocal here in speaking out against it.
I do not blame God for that harm because the Bible was a creation of humans.
Hello blü2…
No. Immortality means you can’t die by any means: so bullets couldn’t kill you.
The “gift” of “everlasting life”(Romans 6:23) is different from immortality, in that the recipient could die if they ingested poison, got shot by a gun, etc.
Jesus, as a perfect human and also a son of God (as Adam was), could have lived forever, but he was killed.
They were not immortal. (See above.) They were created with perfect bodies; and if they had not disobeyed, thereby becoming imperfect, they would never have died… they would have stayed in their perfect, youthful state to this day.
For example, Angels are not immortal; the Devil and his demons, aka “the angels that sinned” (2 Peter 2:4) & also called “the angels that forsook their proper dwelling place” (Jude 6) prior to the Flood, are going to die, at Jehovah God’s appointed time.
RE: A&E never having to die…. God told Adam that he would die if he disobeyed. That’s the only way God said he would die. And his death was over 900 yrs later. It took a long time for his sin, which resulted in imperfection, to reach the inevitable outcome, which is sickness (Isaiah 33:24…
“And no resident will say: ‘I am sick.’ The people dwelling in the land will be pardoned for their error”)
& death (Romans 5:12…
“For just as through one man, sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.”)
This is fruitless… you’re just gonna say, ‘I dont believe that part.”
Why do you even believe in Jesus at all, if you think the Bible isn’t from God, it was “created by humans”.
I’ve read some of your later posts. Don’t get nasty.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Please cite the verses that say this.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do believe that death entered the world through one man called Adam and death spread to all men, but it was spiritual death that entered the world, not physical death.
What Adam did, how he caused the fall of humanity is explained in this passage:
“The meaning of the serpent is attachment to the human world. This attachment of the spirit to the human world led the soul and spirit of Adam from the world of freedom to the world of bondage and caused Him to turn from the Kingdom of Unity to the human world. When the soul and spirit of Adam entered the human world, He came out from the paradise of freedom and fell into the world of bondage. From the height of purity and absolute goodness, He entered into the world of good and evil......
For the spirit and the soul of Adam, when they were attached to the human world, passed from the world of freedom into the world of bondage, and His descendants continued in bondage. This attachment of the soul and spirit to the human world, which is sin, was inherited by the descendants of Adam, and is the serpent which is always in the midst of, and at enmity with, the spirits and the descendants of Adam. That enmity continues and endures. For attachment to the world has become the cause of the bondage of spirits, and this bondage is identical with sin, which has been transmitted from Adam to His posterity. It is because of this attachment that men have been deprived of essential spirituality and exalted position."
Physical death has been and always will be in the world since God man evolved with a mortal body, just like all the other animals.
No such distinction is evident to me in the Genesis text.
Not least because it would mean that you could shoot God dead ─ since it's plain God is trying to prevent A&E having the same "live forever" quality as [he] does, and the Tree of Life bestows.
I find not the slightest hint in the NT that any of the five versions of Jesus could have lived forever in human form. Mark's Jesus ─ the closest to a credible model ─ was an ordinary Jewish male until he became "son of God" by adoption, expressly on the model by which David became a "son of God" in Psalm 2:7.
Adam was a rib shy, if I recall the tale correctly.
You keep overlooking the express datum that God had denied them knowledge of good and evil
so that it was impossible for either of them to form an intention to do wrong
so that it was impossible for either of them to sin
and that they were each in that condition at the time they ate the fruit
and that sin is NEVER mentioned, not even once, in the Garden tale
'
and they were not expelled from the Garden for any other reason than as stated in Genesis 3:22-23, ie that God did it to protect [his] own position
and that it's only a folktale anyway, with no possibility of being historical.
The Tree of Life in the Garden is stated (3:22-23 again) to have the power to make you as free from death as God is, if you eat the fruit.
And God expelled A&E to prevent them eating the fruit.
So they always going to die UNLESS they ate the fruit.
I recall being in a school play and the anguish in my English master's voice as he'd groan "Lines! Lines!" The text of Genesis does NOT say what you attribute to it,
I'm a materialist, for a start. I think that on the balance of probabilities there was an historical Jesus, who was a player in the Jewish religion industry early in the 1st century CE, who was executed by the Romans. I don't believe he had a supernatural origin or supernatural powers.
My apologies.
Last edited:
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Quite a few Jews became Christians, in one city after another, when Paul “according to his custom … reasoned with them from the scriptures, explaining and proving by references that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead…” — Acts 17:2,3.
If it hadn’t made any sense to them, they certainly wouldn’t have uprooted their lives, and make themselves targets of other Jews, some of whom were former friends!
At the time of its inception, Christians were worshipers of Yahweh, the same God of the Jews.
So, God didn’t change; the only thing that changed, for them, was the way to worship God… through Christ.
But, RE: the Jews, they didn’t fully understand the complete purpose behind the Messiah; it wasn’t just to establish a kingdom for Israel.
As Daniel said in the 70 weeks of years pointing to the Messiah, it was “to finish off sin”, and “terminate transgression”. Or Isaiah 53.
No doubt these were some of “the Scriptures” from which Paul reasoned with them, helping them to ID Jesus as the Messiah.
To me, you’re reaching conclusions that aren’t supported by the text…
You said
“God had deliberately withheld [knowledge of good and bad] from them, which made them incapable of forming an intention to do wrong and therefore incapable of sinning”?
But they did sin / disobey. The account is clear that they disobeyed the command; and yes, it was a command to not eat from that one tree. It wasn’t a difficult test.
What do you think that tree was about?
WFor that matter, where do you get your understanding of what being perfect means?
Here’s one of my definitions of perfect, that fits the scenario:
“Whatever is ideal for
accomplishing a certain purpose.”
Ex.: a framing hammer is perfect for driving nails into wood.
A circular saw is perfect for cutting 2x4’s..
But a saw is imperfect to drive nails, & a hammer is imperfect to cut wood.
They were given jobs to do, and Free Will to make choices. Eventually to raise a family, and teach the children.. That took intelligence and ability to make good decisions.
And for A&E, there were no laws saying “don’t hurt animals”, or “Adam, don’t slap your wife.”
But for the Israelites, Jehovah gave them over 600 laws!
Why so many to them, but so few - in fact, only one prohibitive law - to A&E?
Because A&E were perfect; they already knew how to act properly, and were inclined to do what was right. They were given a built-in conscience.
God has ‘appointed times’ when He will step in to fulfill His purpose, one of which is to “bring to ruin those ruining the earth.” Revelation 11:18
Oh goodness… yes they do. (And many others.) The Kingdom that Jesus taught his followers to pray @ Matthew 6:9,10, was prophesied centuries earlier, in Daniel 2:44.
Yes, God is gonna really take action! His Kingdom, with Christ as Ruler, will accomplish 1 John 3:8.
Another Scripture that reveals God taking action, through Christ!
Psalm 46:9,10…. (God does it.)
Jeremiah 10:23 indicates otherwise.
If it is solely up to man…. how’s that going?
There’s no agreement anywhere!
You can’t get people to be peaceable within their own country, let alone between countries!
Why not? Living under a perfect Ruler, Christ (Dan.7:13,14 “… peoples, nations, and language groups…), humans on earth will receive wonderful blessings!
Where’s that Scripture?
Those going to Heaven… what job do they have? To rule with Christ.
Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians 15, were addressed to those who “belong to Christ”, those who were “chosen” to rule. Why would “the unrighteous” who will also be resurrected back to life (Acts 24:15), go to heaven?
Nope. The Bible refers so much to the Earth being restored - and hardly anything about going to Heaven - it comes across as amazing that the “paradise earth” paradigm the Bible references is pushed to the background… but the idea of going to Heaven, mentioned so little, is the promoted concept.
It all is. Every bit. That’s one reason our numbers are growing….because of our understanding of it, and respect for it. And worshipping Jehovah - Jesus’ God - engenders love, unity & peace, products of His Holy Spirit, which many people have observed.
It’s what the Bible states. And the Bible doesnt imply “everyone”. Neither did I.
And I already explained to you what Jehovah will do according to Scripture, and what He could do to create even more room.
No! The Greek word that Jesus used @ John 5:28,29, means “memorial tombs”. It specifically means literal graves!
Yes, I agree….most do.
(Sigh.) Trying to attack me, only makes your argument look weak.
———————————————-
The following is not mine:
“Tell me, whWhere is the Father's house? It is in Heaven, not on Earth.ere in the Bible does it say “Heaven is the destination”?”
Why did you put this in my name? I didn’t say this gobbledeegook.
Lol.
Calling me “a child with a lollipop”?
It’s bold, but not honest. Completely uncalled for.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
God has ‘appointed times’ for the fulfillment of His purpose, but that purpose will be fulfilled by humans, NOT by God.
God is not going to 'step in' to fulfill His purpose.
“This is the Day in which God’s most excellent favors have been poured out upon men, the Day in which His most mighty grace hath been infused into all created things. It is incumbent upon all the peoples of the world to reconcile their differences, and, with perfect unity and peace, abide beneath the shadow of the Tree of His care and loving-kindness. It behoveth them to cleave to whatsoever will, in this Day, be conducive to the exaltation of their stations, and to the promotion of their best interests. Happy are those whom the all-glorious Pen was moved to remember, and blessed are those men whose names, by virtue of Our inscrutable decree, We have preferred to conceal.
Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.”
God already took action by sending a NEW Messenger, Baha'u'llah. God is not going to take any further action. Now it is time for humans to take action and God expects humans to take action, by following the instructions that God set forth through Baha'u'llah.
Jesus is never going to rule on this Earth again. He said so in many verses (John 14:19, John 16:10, John 17:4, John 17:11)
Jesus is not going to rule from heaven either. That is nowhere supported by any scriptures, it is only JW dogma.
The Christian dispensation is over.
Dispensation
- the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
- an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
- a divinely appointed order or age:
Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words
The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!
I believe that the divine ordering of the affairs of the world is through the latest Messenger of God and that Messenger is Baha'u'llah.
I believe we are living in the Dispensation of Baha'u'llah so Baha’u’llah is the Messenger of God for the present dispensation and God wants us to recognize and follow Him.
I said: God revealed what humans need to straighten up their own messes so God expects us to do so.
Jeremiah 10:23 O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
How does Jeremiah indicate otherwise? That verse has absolutely NOTHING to do with what I said.
The time will come when there will be peace and agreement. Humanity did not get to where it is overnight and it is not going to come together overnight, but it will happen eventually, within this age. because it is God's Purpose for humanity.
“God’s purpose is none other than to usher in, in ways He alone can bring about, and the full significance of which He alone can fathom, the Great, the Golden Age of a long-divided, a long-afflicted humanity. Its present state, indeed even its immediate future, is dark, distressingly dark. Its distant future, however, is radiant, gloriously radiant—so radiant that no eye can visualize it."
People who died in the past do not need another chance to live on Earth because they are living in Heaven, which is far better than Earth could ever be.
Christians believe that the following verses are about Jesus, but Jesus was the Son of man, so the following verses cannot be about the Jesus.
They also cannot be about Jesus since Jesus said His work was finished here and He was NO MORE in this world.
(John 14:19, John 16:10, John 17:4, John 17:11)
Daniel 7:13-14 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
I believe that those verses are about Baha'u'llah who was one like Jesus, who was the return of the Son of man.
Jesus ascended into heaven. Baha’u’llah, one like the son of man, descended from the heaven of the Will of God, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. Those verses are about an earthly Kingdom, not a heavenly Kingdom. Jesus’ Kingdom is in heaven, Baha’u’llah’s Kingdom will be on earth, after it is built by humans.
John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Where’s the Scripture that says that those going to Heaven have a job to rule with Christ?
You can twist any Scriptures to mean what you want them to mean, so this conversation is futile.
You believe what you believe and I believe what I believe.
Where’s the Scripture that says that those who “belong to Christ”, those who were “chosen” to rule will be resurrected back to life and go to heaven?
Where does the Bible refer to the physical Earth being restored?
Restored to what? Restored to an Eden-like state?
Yes, there will be a New Earth, but it won't be 'back to Eden.' We cannot turn back the clock and nobody (except JWs) would ever want to.
Baha'is believe that the New Earth is a new world order in which we will see the spiritualization of the peoples of the world and man will become a noble being adorned with divine virtues and perfections: New Race of Men.
New Race of Men | Bahá’í Quotes
The “World Order” that Baha’is envision pertains to a number of subjects: politics and governance, economics, society, and religion, as is covered briefly in this blog: Toward a New World Order?
Toward a New World Order? | Baha'i Blog
If you have spent a considerable amount of time reading the Writings of the Baha'i Faith, it is likely that you have come across language regarding the relationship between the Faith and a new “World Order.” One of the passages that is most frequently quoted in relation to this theme is this...
www.bahaiblog.net
Not one single thing that JWs believe about the afterlife can be supported by the Bible without twisting Scriptures to mean what they do not mean.
I really respect the JW morals and way of life so it is really sad that what they teach about the afterlife is patently false and not biblical.
JWs claim that all the other Christians are wrong about the faithful going to heaven, which is ridiculous.
30 Bible Verses About Heaven and Eternal Life
Learn more about life after death with Bible verses about Heaven. Get answers to your questions about heaven from the Word of God.
Please cite any Scripture that says that anyone who has died will be brought back to life to live on Earth.
Please cite any Scripture that says that God will make more room for people to live on Earth.
Most if not all Christians, including the JWS. Any Christian who believes that resurrection means people coming out of their literal graves is dead wrong (pardon the pun).
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
The death of man is merely his soul passing from one world into another. When the soul passes from this world into the spiritual world it takes on a new form comprised of spiritual elements and the man continues to live forever.
What makes us human is our soul, not our physical body, and our soul continues to live forever. All of who we are -- our personality -- will survive the resurrection, except the physical body. The death of man is merely his soul passing from one world into another. When the soul passes from this world into the spiritual world it takes on a new form comprised of spiritual elements that exist in the spiritual realm of existence.
I am not attacking you. I am only calling you out and asking you to provide Scriptures that support your beliefs.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Allow me to rephrase what I said before.
Do the JWs even realize that their beliefs run completely contrary to what Jesus taught regarding what our attitude should be regarding this world?
It's kind of sad when a Baha'i has to be pointing out what is in the Bible since it is not even our holy book.
John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
Matthew 6:19-21 Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Does it 'matter' to you what Jesus said?
Why do JWs love their lives on Earth so much that they want to be resurrected back to life so thy can live on Earth forever?
Why do JWs lay up their treasures on Earth instead of in Heaven?
This goes against what Jesus has instructed us to do.
If you would answer my questions I would not have to say you are like a kid who just wants a lollipop.
You are either like a kid who wants a lollipop or you do not care what Jesus said, as noted above. You cannot have it both ways.
The Bible is a collection of writings, therefore is incapable of harming anyone. People harm people.
Of course the Bible was written by humans, as we are the only species capable of writing. Duh!
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That's true, but many people are harmed by reading what is in the Bible.
Part, but not all, harm comes from how they interpret the scriptures.
There is no indication, no less proof, that people are harmed by reading the Bible. You should give it a try instead of making absurd statements.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Why not allow people to speak for themselves?
Many atheists have told me that they were harmed by reading the Bible and that the Bible is the reason they are atheists.
I have given it a try and I have been harmed by it.
If I had my drothers I would never read it again, but fool that I am I keep debating with Christians so I have to read it.
Last edited:
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
It would have been nice if you had listed a few, so that we could discuss them.