As of this moment, who would you vote for in the Democratic nomination?

[dust1n]

Here's the thing.
I would definitely vote for a Sandersesque improvement to this country. I am absolutely certain that his ideas would be better for the 70% of us who are lower on the economic ladder.
But to do that he must both win the general election and then keep his campaign promises. I don't think he can do either one.
I think Trump could beat him in the election. Bernie is too far to the left for the majority of voters. He is the candidate the GOP would love to run against.
And I think he would be even less able to keep his promises than Obama. From Congress to the billionaires to the Washington insiders, he'd be opposed by everyone who matters *after the election *. What would be even worse is that those powerful people would run over him like a 18wheeler over a turtle, and do whatever they want, then blame him for the outcome.

The President is not as powerful as people think. You could fit more real power onto the Donald's personal jet, along with their entourage.
Tom

I don't necessarily disagree with your assessment. If Bernie won the general election, I'd expect 5% to 10% of the things he'd ever want to get done, to actually get done. It's sort of impossible to say what exactly would happen if it did ever come to be. Still feel like that is a better alternative, and will have better effects on third-party politics in the future I'm hoping. At worst, we don't get in a war for another 4 years.

 

[Underhill]

Here's the thing.
I would definitely vote for a Sandersesque improvement to this country. I am absolutely certain that his ideas would be better for the 70% of us who are lower on the economic ladder.
But to do that he must both win the general election and then keep his campaign promises. I don't think he can do either one.
I think Trump could beat him in the election. Bernie is too far to the left for the majority of voters. He is the candidate the GOP would love to run against.
And I think he would be even less able to keep his promises than Obama. From Congress to the billionaires to the Washington insiders, he'd be opposed by everyone who matters *after the election *. What would be even worse is that those powerful people would run over him like a 18wheeler over a turtle, and do whatever they want, then blame him for the outcome.

The President is not as powerful as people think. You could fit more real power onto the Donald's personal jet, along with their entourage.
Tom

For the most part I agree. Although on foreign policy, which may be Bern's biggest weakness, the president has quite a bit of leeway.

Domestically our government is like a high school orchestra. Congress plays the notes while the president conducts up on stage. The problem is, most of the players are so focused on their own music the conductor is just flapping his arms around....

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Not to be boring but Bernie. I feel he is objectively the best candidate. He has a history of sticking to his guns and actually meaning what he says....at least better than your average politician. He is the only democratic socialist in congress. He and one other are the only ones to have been elected into congress under the independent line in many many years. He supports single payer system. He supports reduced military activity. ect ect ect.

 

[Penumbra]

Here's the thing.
I would definitely vote for a Sandersesque improvement to this country. I am absolutely certain that his ideas would be better for the 70% of us who are lower on the economic ladder.
But to do that he must both win the general election and then keep his campaign promises. I don't think he can do either one.
I think Trump could beat him in the election. Bernie is too far to the left for the majority of voters. He is the candidate the GOP would love to run against.
And I think he would be even less able to keep his promises than Obama. From Congress to the billionaires to the Washington insiders, he'd be opposed by everyone who matters *after the election *. What would be even worse is that those powerful people would run over him like a 18wheeler over a turtle, and do whatever they want, then blame him for the outcome.

The President is not as powerful as people think. You could fit more real power onto the Donald's personal jet, along with their entourage.

I view it the opposite way; any GOP candidate has a disadvantage in a presidential-year election. It's not impossible, but it's an uphill battle. In terms of single-issue polls, Bernie the majority of the population supports Bernie. He's not as far off as people might think.

There are more registered Democrat voters than Republican voters in the US. But Republicans tend to vote more consistently, meaning they vote in midterm elections. During presidential year elections, when voter turnout is higher overall, Democrats have the advantage of numbers. More women vote than men, and women are currently polled to dislike Trump, as a statistical group. The Hispanic population is a growing voter base, and yet Trump's primary theme currently is anti-Hispanic immigrant. The group he's currently winning, is the poll of Republican voters. He will have to win the shrinking white male demographic by such a large margin to overcome the female demographic and non-white demographic, to win. He starts with a disadvantage.

Also I think Bernie would be better for the country as a whole, rather than just for the bottom 70%, at least over the long term. I'm not in the bottom 70%, and pretty much none of his policies would help me at all, but I'm still supporting him anyway. Strengthening the middle class strengthens the economy as a whole more than any other policies. And extreme wealth concentration is a predictor of eventual economic or social collapse, which I'd prefer not to see happen.

 

[dust1n]

I'm curious if the four others were just entirely for some non-candidate.

 

[TPaine]

My first choice would be Elizabeth Warren, but since she isn't running so I'll go with Bernie Sanders. Its about time we get a true progressive in the White House.

 

[metis]

Bernie, with Biden taking second with me. I'm really not a Hillary fan, but I still would prefer her over any of the Pubs.

 

[Aquitaine]

I'm not a US citizen, but if I was I'd vote for Bernie Sanders, and (if she was running) Elizabeth Warren.

 

[Copernicus]

I view it the opposite way; any GOP candidate has a disadvantage in a presidential-year election. It's not impossible, but it's an uphill battle. In terms of single-issue polls, Bernie the majority of the population supports Bernie. He's not as far off as people might think.

There are more registered Democrat voters than Republican voters in the US. But Republicans tend to vote more consistently, meaning they vote in midterm elections. During presidential year elections, when voter turnout is higher overall, Democrats have the advantage of numbers. More women vote than men, and women are currently polled to dislike Trump, as a statistical group. The Hispanic population is a growing voter base, and yet Trump's primary theme currently is anti-Hispanic immigrant. The group he's currently winning, is the poll of Republican voters. He will have to win the shrinking white male demographic by such a large margin to overcome the female demographic and non-white demographic, to win. He starts with a disadvantage.

Also I think Bernie would be better for the country as a whole, rather than just for the bottom 70%, at least over the long term. I'm not in the bottom 70%, and pretty much none of his policies would help me at all, but I'm still supporting him anyway. Strengthening the middle class strengthens the economy as a whole more than any other policies. And extreme wealth concentration is a predictor of eventual economic or social collapse, which I'd prefer not to see happen.

I very much agree with your analysis, except that I'm leaning more towards Hillary for pragmatic reasons. She still stands a good chance of losing the general election, given the way Americans tend to split evenly at the end of a long presidential race, with the electoral system there to undermine the popular vote. However, I suspect that Bernie would have a lot of baggage weighing him down that isn't obvious this early in the game. The label "socialist", which he unapologetically accepts, is political poison. He has waffled on gun control issues and seems to lack appeal to important voter blocks in the Democratic base (e.g. African Americans, Hispanics). His experience in foreign policy issues is very limited. And Sanders has a lot more shine on his halo to lose. Clinton has pretty much bottomed out.

A Bush-Kasich ticket would probably take key electoral states such as Florida and Ohio, not to mention the fact that Bush would attract a substantial minority of the Hispanic demographic. So this race is by no means certain, even if Clinton gets the nomination. It is less certain, if someone like Sanders or Biden were to get the nomination. That said, I much prefer Sanders' policy positions. I just lack the belief that he could do much to get them implemented.

 

[Yorutenchi]

I am new to American politics. But I find it strange that everywhere I go on the internet it seems that Bernie Sanders is by in large the popular vote. This poll is a good example. However the statistics when I look them up say that Clinton is ahead.

 

[dust1n]

I am new to American politics. But I find it strange that everywhere I go on the internet it seems that Bernie Sanders is by in large the popular vote. This poll is a good example. However the statistics when I look them up say that Clinton is ahead.

The Americans on RF and the fact there is so many Europeans on RF, probably skews the general vote even further left, then say, the average Democratic voter.

Also, first rule about American politics: don't talk about any actual specific legislation, and sidestep incredibly important issues by never really talking about them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I am new to American politics.

One thing about us, we never quit talking about it. It will be election night 2016, and before all the votes are counted, before the winner formally announced, we'll be talking and speculating about 2020. The Republicans, as has been their trend recently, will probably go on about how the need to appeal more to women and minorities because the white, male, middle-class vote that used to carry them to victory isn't as sure of a thing as it used to be.

 

[Druac]

#FeelTheBern

 

[sun rise]

Bernie because he is not packaged by handlers and not owing his soul to large campaign donors who don't represent the American people.

What any President can do is limited by the realities of Congress and world events. Thus politicians sell themselves by lying - making promises that they know or should know they can't keep. You see it in primaries where politicians pander to their bases and then "pivot" for the general election by being packaged by advertisers to make them seem acceptable to a broader class of voters. I'm tired of this crap - I want people who honestly stand for something I can mostly agree with and are willing to do their best to move the country in that direction from start to finish.

There are areas where I disagree with Bernie, but I agree with most of his domestic ideas.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Sanders seems to be the only realistic person I would vote for. I mostly vote depending on who is funding them. I like Bernie's list rather than any one else's list I have seen. In fact I haven't seen negative criticism of Bernie at all that wasn't just generalized "Socialism is bad" rhetoric.

AT LEAST that is better than attacking him in general. They are at least addressing (usually poorly) the issues rather than the person. Ironically its because they feel that they can still paint socialism in such a bad light that they won't need to impugn his honor.

 

[sun rise]

Sanders seems to be the only realistic person I would vote for. I mostly vote depending on who is funding them. I like Bernie's list rather than any one else's list I have seen. In fact I haven't seen negative criticism of Bernie at all that wasn't just generalized "Socialism is bad" rhetoric.

AT LEAST that is better than attacking him in general. They are at least addressing (usually poorly) the issues rather than the person. Ironically its because they feel that they can still paint socialism in such a bad light that they won't need to impugn his honor.

The word "socialism" is a dog whistle to some people. His positions are far from government ownership classical socialism. Instead he's close to the European social democrat model.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

The word "socialism" is a dog whistle to some people. His positions are far from government ownership classical socialism. Instead he's close to the European social democrat model.

Yeah. Its knee jerk reaction to something most people don't even know the definition of.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The word "socialism" is a dog whistle to some people. His positions are far from government ownership classical socialism. Instead he's close to the European social democrat model.[/QUOTE] I've always thought Sanders was pretty upfront that he is a Democratic Socialist.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I'm feelin' the Bern.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Wow. Just look at this thread. And it seems to be the same everywhere on the internet... .how is Hillary still ahead in the polls?