As we learn about Mother Tamil and matriarchal society, patriarchal society

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

I hope you appreciate the fringe nature of your theory, and that it isn't based on any reliable sources.

I will make the point that I also started with an Aryan/Sanskrit consideration, but I have since rejected that in favour of Proto-Dravidian/Tamil when it comes to answering the question of who lived in the Indus Valley Civilization circa 3500BCE.

Removing the Sankritization of the Tamil language and culture such that one can analyze the Indus Valley Civilization will take time, but I am certain it will be worth every ounce of effort.

Yes. It requires more study. Thank you.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It is theoretically possible that Kashyap was a Proto-Indo-European person. We do not know and it is not relevant. The Pie argument is related to 1500 BCE, whereas Kashyap and Indra were in 3500 BCE. So, if Kashyap was Proto-Indo-European, he did not bring the language at that time. And there was another wave of Proto-Indo-European at 1500 BCE, which may be through trade, through which the language has come to India.

Kashyap, a sage or a Hindu adam of Puranas,, and Indra, the Indo-Aryan Chief God,, both are myths. Wikipedia says that Book #9 "Soma Pavamana" has hymns by him and his progeny (incidently, a hymn in that book has verses which are supposed to have been written by my progenitor, though we belong to a different line of descent. Book 9 is not considered among the older books of RigVeda). Indra, sure, is an old entity, but not so sure about Kashyapa (though he has an interesting etymology).

"Kashyapa means "turtle" in Sanskrit. According to Michael Witzel, it is related to Avestan kasiiapa, Sogdian kyšph, Kurdish kûsî, New Persian kašaf, kaš(a)p which mean "tortoise", after which Kashaf Rūd (a river in Turkmenistan and Khorasan) is named. Other relations include to Tokarian B kaccāp ("brainpan"), Tokarian A kāccap ("turtle", "tortoise")."

Kashyapa - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There is evidence for just one Indo-Aryan migration to India around 1,500 BCE. Around 3,500 BCE, Indo-Europepans had not started moving towards East. They had moved into Eastern Europe and Samara in the North. BMAC came up only around early 2nd millennium.

 

[River Sea]

I highlighted the above since I found this interesting when I looked into rice farming. The idea here is to work out how to maximize the harvest, since you could start seeds on dryland and then move them to land that was already flooded once they were seedlings. This would free up the dryland for other use, and also increase the yeild from wet-land paddy farming.

I learned that rice grows best in alluvial soil because it can retain water.

Now I'm curious, what would happen when traveling when a person puts alluvial soil on their skin? Will that help a person as they travel? What would happen if a person ate alluvial soil? What would that do to the body? What ways did matriarchal patriarchal societies use alluvial soil besides growing rice?

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/alluvial

Definition of 'alluvial'

alluvial
(əluviəl IPA Pronunciation Guide)
adjective
Alluvial soils are soils which consist of earth and sand left behind on land which has been flooded or where a river once flowed.

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Yes, rice can grow in alluvial soil. In fact, rice grows best in alluvial soil because it can retain water, which rice needs to grow.
Here are some other things to know about growing rice:
Soil type: Rice can grow in a variety of soils, including silts, loams, gravels, alkaline soils, and acid soils. However, clayey loam is considered the best soil for growing rice.
Climate: Rice requires high temperatures, high humidity, and rainfall.
Field conditions: Rice is often grown in flooded fields, known as paddies.
Location: Farmers grow rice on alluvial plains, flooded valleys, and terraced hillsides.

What do you think alluvial means?

Now it's your turn. Where do you say the water came from?

It had to cover the top of Mt Everest, so it had to lift present sea levels something a shade under 30,000 feet, and for that you're going to need 1.113 billion cubic miles of water over and above the water on the earth, as you can quickly check by doing your sums. But let's allow a bit because the Himalayas may have risen somewhat due to tectonic forces in that period, and settle for a round billion cubic miles of water.

Where did it come from and where is it now?

What would alluvial mean in Tamil, and what was this about the Himalayas rising due to tectonic forces?

What causes tectonic forces, and how come the word influenced isn't used in this situation?

What are the similarities and differences between forced and influenced?

When it comes to people, is it more reasonable to use the word influenced, and when it comes to nature, is it more reasonable to use the word forced? If that's the case, how come?

 

[blü 2]

What causes tectonic forces, and how come the word influenced isn't used in this situation?

Here's a good introduction to tectonics >Tectonics - Wikipedia<. Enjoy!

 

[River Sea]

Here's a good introduction to tectonics >Tectonics - Wikipedia<. Enjoy!

Never heard of this before icy moons

Planetary tectonics​

[edit]
Techniques used in the analysis of tectonics on Earth have also been applied to the study of the planets and their moons, especially icy moons.[3]

 

[blü 2]

Never heard of this before icy moons

Planetary tectonics​

[edit]
Techniques used in the analysis of tectonics on Earth have also been applied to the study of the planets and their moons, especially icy moons.[3]

This may appeal to you then: >ScienceDaily: Your source for the latest research news<

 

[River Sea]

(1) The dates are calculated from the winter solstice for the start of the month of Thai (10th), which I calculate as 3 days and 3 weeks from the date of the winter solstice. This means the 1st day of Thai will fall between 14/15 of January on the Gregorian calendar.
(2) The Gregorian calendar is also designed to follow the equinoxes and solstices, meaning the days that these specific moments fall on will only vary over 2-4 days. Corrections need to be made for leap years, but overall it is considered stable.
(3) The Tamil calendar is setup like the Gregorian calendar with 12 months but it allows for variances in the days of all the months, meaning the adjustments can be made every year if required.
(4) There is a lot of information about the "Hindu" aspect of the Tamil calendar, and how certain stars are prominent during certain months. These were later additions to the calendar that was added by the Vedic influence upon the Tamil peoples.

@GoodAttention
What about 13 months? The Hindu calendar has 13 months every four years. Also, the Hebrew calendar has 13 months too. The Hebrews need to adjust their calendar and add a 13th month 7 times in 19 years.

Update: Just learn that the Hindu calendar has a 13th month every four years. So, what are the calendar similarities between Hinduism and Hebrews? Because there are 13 months in the Lunisolar Hebrew calendar too, the Hebrews need to adjust their calendar with a leap year Add a 13th month (2nd Adar) 7 times in 19 years

@Wandering Monk Yeah your right Hebrews doesn't strictly use the lunar calendar and uses a lunar-solar calendar. You're right about what you wrote.

 

[GoodAttention]

@GoodAttention
What about 13 months? The Hindu calendar has 13 months every four years. Also, the Hebrew calendar has 13 months too. The Hebrews need to adjust their calendar and add a 13th month 7 times in 19 years.

All lunisolar calendars are complicated and in my opinion inaccurate in the sense that major adjustments will always need to be made over time.

Solar calendars such as the Persian calendar are far more accurate, since there is less variation.

Hindu calendar is largely separate to the Tamil calendar.

 

[River Sea]

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala

Do many Yadavas today believe that Krishna was their kin and Jews/Hebrews were Yadavas?

 

[River Sea]

This may appeal to you then: >ScienceDaily: Your source for the latest research news<

@blü 2 how would people in BCE understand
Unifying Gravity, Magnetism, Electricity & Dielectricity as ONE THING ONLY

@GoodAttention did Tamil know anything about
Unifying Gravity, Magnetism, Electricity & Dielectricity as ONE THING ONLY

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala did Yadavas know anything about
Unifying Gravity, Magnetism, Electricity & Dielectricity as ONE THING ONLY

your thoughts about video and I learned a lot from this video

Unifying Gravity, Magnetism, Electricity & Dielectricity as ONE THING ONLY

 

[River Sea]

"Kashyapa means "turtle" in Sanskrit. According to Michael Witzel, it is related to Avestan kasiiapa, Sogdian kyšph, Kurdish kûsî, New Persian kašaf, kaš(a)p which mean "tortoise", after which Kashaf Rūd (a river in Turkmenistan and Khorasan) is named. Other relations include to Tokarian B kaccāp ("brainpan"), Tokarian A kāccap ("turtle", "tortoise")."

Kashyapa - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I thought Michael Witzel was extremely thinking about invasion. I'm not into invasion; @Aupmanyav you're into merging. As you showed about Indo-Aryans from Afghanistan, and now you show about turtles, yet showing from an author who's into invading. I wonder if Michael Witzel ever heard about merging.

Indo-Aryans migrated to India around 4,000 years ago from Afghanistan. As late as in Alexander's time the region was known as Ariana.

@Aupmanyav
What did Afghanistan people thought about turtles, were turtle shells ever used as currency similar to how seashells were used as currency that @GoodAttention shown about? I could reference later if needed.

@blü 2 the website you shared sciencedaily. I found this about Indus Valley
skeletal remains from the ancient city of Harappa provides evidence that inter-personal violence and infectious diseases played a role in the demise of the Indus Civilization.

@Aupmanyav @GoodAttention @Bharat Jhunjhunwala take a look this is from website that @blü 2 shown.

Violence, infectious disease and climate change contributed to Indus civilization collapse

A study of skeletal remains from the ancient city of Harappa provides evidence that inter-personal violence and infectious diseases played a role in the demise of the Indus Civilization.

www.sciencedaily.com

Violence, infectious disease and climate change contributed to Indus civilization collapse
Date:
January 16, 2014

Source:
Appalachian State University

Summary:
A study of skeletal remains from the ancient city of Harappa provides evidence that inter-personal violence and infectious diseases played a role in the demise of the Indus Civilization.

A new study on the human skeletal remains from the ancient Indus city of Harappa provides evidence that inter-personal violence and infectious diseases played a role in the demise of the Indus, or Harappan Civilization around 4,000 years ago.

The Indus Civilization stretched over a million square kilometers of what is now Pakistan and India in the Third Millennium B.C. While contemporaneous civilizations in Egypt and Mesopotomia, are well-known, their Indus trading partners have remained more of a mystery.
Archaeological research has demonstrated that Indus cities grew rapidly from 2200-1900 B.C., when they were largely abandoned. "The collapse of the Indus Civilization and the reorganization of its human population has been controversial for a long time," lead author of the paper published last month in the journal PLOS ONE, Gwen Robbins Schug, explained. Robbins Schug is an associate professor of anthropology at Appalachian State University.

(there's more to read there)

I'm responding with a question:

I never thought of an infection disease; I do remember learning from @Bharat Jhunjhunwala that Krishna had to deal with poison snakes in a pond of water that couldn't flow. Yet how would that then later show infection diseases in skeletal remains that's found later? What was this about? Your thoughts, please?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I thought Michael Witzel was extremely thinking about invasion. I'm not into invasion; @Aupmanyav you're into merging. As you showed about Indo-Aryans from Afghanistan, and now you show about turtles, yet showing from an author who's into invading. I wonder if Michael Witzel ever heard about merging.



@Aupmanyav
What did Afghanistan people thought about turtles, were turtle shells ever used as currency similar to how seashells were used as currency that @GoodAttention shown about? I could reference later if needed.

@blü 2 the website you shared sciencedaily. I found this about Indus Valley
skeletal remains from the ancient city of Harappa provides evidence that inter-personal violence and infectious diseases played a role in the demise of the Indus Civilization.

@Aupmanyav @GoodAttention @Bharat Jhunjhunwala take a look this is from website that @blü 2 shown.

Violence, infectious disease and climate change contributed to Indus civilization collapse

A study of skeletal remains from the ancient city of Harappa provides evidence that inter-personal violence and infectious diseases played a role in the demise of the Indus Civilization.

www.sciencedaily.com

Violence, infectious disease and climate change contributed to Indus civilization collapse
Date:
January 16, 2014

Source:
Appalachian State University

Summary:
A study of skeletal remains from the ancient city of Harappa provides evidence that inter-personal violence and infectious diseases played a role in the demise of the Indus Civilization.

A new study on the human skeletal remains from the ancient Indus city of Harappa provides evidence that inter-personal violence and infectious diseases played a role in the demise of the Indus, or Harappan Civilization around 4,000 years ago.

The Indus Civilization stretched over a million square kilometers of what is now Pakistan and India in the Third Millennium B.C. While contemporaneous civilizations in Egypt and Mesopotomia, are well-known, their Indus trading partners have remained more of a mystery.
Archaeological research has demonstrated that Indus cities grew rapidly from 2200-1900 B.C., when they were largely abandoned. "The collapse of the Indus Civilization and the reorganization of its human population has been controversial for a long time," lead author of the paper published last month in the journal PLOS ONE, Gwen Robbins Schug, explained. Robbins Schug is an associate professor of anthropology at Appalachian State University.

(there's more to read there)

I'm responding with a question:

I never thought of an infection disease; I do remember learning from @Bharat Jhunjhunwala that Krishna had to deal with poison snakes in a pond of water that couldn't flow. Yet how would that then later show infection diseases in skeletal remains that's found later? What was this about? Your thoughts, please?

I generally disagree with Michael Witzel. Not just Afghanistan, you could say that about Central Asia too: Why was turtle important for them? I do not know the answer.
The Mohenjodaro skeletons do not show any evidence of violence. Infectious disease is a possibility. I do not agree with Appalachian University article.
You be happy with Jhunjhunwala. For me he is a big fake.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I thought Michael Witzel was extremely thinking about invasion. I'm not into invasion; @Aupmanyav you're into merging. As you showed about Indo-Aryans from Afghanistan, and now you show about turtles, yet showing from an author who's into invading. I wonder if Michael Witzel ever heard about merging.



@Aupmanyav
What did Afghanistan people thought about turtles, were turtle shells ever used as currency similar to how seashells were used as currency that @GoodAttention shown about? I could reference later if needed.

@blü 2 the website you shared sciencedaily. I found this about Indus Valley
skeletal remains from the ancient city of Harappa provides evidence that inter-personal violence and infectious diseases played a role in the demise of the Indus Civilization.

@Aupmanyav @GoodAttention @Bharat Jhunjhunwala take a look this is from website that @blü 2 shown.

Violence, infectious disease and climate change contributed to Indus civilization collapse

A study of skeletal remains from the ancient city of Harappa provides evidence that inter-personal violence and infectious diseases played a role in the demise of the Indus Civilization.

www.sciencedaily.com

Violence, infectious disease and climate change contributed to Indus civilization collapse
Date:
January 16, 2014

Source:
Appalachian State University

Summary:
A study of skeletal remains from the ancient city of Harappa provides evidence that inter-personal violence and infectious diseases played a role in the demise of the Indus Civilization.

A new study on the human skeletal remains from the ancient Indus city of Harappa provides evidence that inter-personal violence and infectious diseases played a role in the demise of the Indus, or Harappan Civilization around 4,000 years ago.

The Indus Civilization stretched over a million square kilometers of what is now Pakistan and India in the Third Millennium B.C. While contemporaneous civilizations in Egypt and Mesopotomia, are well-known, their Indus trading partners have remained more of a mystery.
Archaeological research has demonstrated that Indus cities grew rapidly from 2200-1900 B.C., when they were largely abandoned. "The collapse of the Indus Civilization and the reorganization of its human population has been controversial for a long time," lead author of the paper published last month in the journal PLOS ONE, Gwen Robbins Schug, explained. Robbins Schug is an associate professor of anthropology at Appalachian State University.

(there's more to read there)

I'm responding with a question:

I never thought of an infection disease; I do remember learning from @Bharat Jhunjhunwala that Krishna had to deal with poison snakes in a pond of water that couldn't flow. Yet how would that then later show infection diseases in skeletal remains that's found later? What was this about? Your thoughts, please?

I generally disagree with Michael Witzel. Not just Afghanistan, you could say that about Central Asia too: Why was turtle important for them? I do not know the answer. Aryan cosmology did not have a turtle supporting the world.
The Mohenjodaro skeletons do not show any evidence of violence. Infectious disease is a possibility. I do not agree with Appalachian University article.
You be happy with Jhunjhunwala. For me he is a total fake.

 

[GoodAttention]

Adding another recent video describing the Indus Valley civilisation. The main point I ascertain are the following,

(1) Peaceful, egalitarian society that valued equality. It appears the people developed inter-cropping, which is growing different types of plants at the same time. They also allowed for areas of no farming, where the soil could rejuvenate, known as farrowing.

(2) Population was predominantly agricultural and supported the city centres. These centres would then trade amongst themselves also.

(3) Sea-faring with evidence of goods in present day Oman.

(4) Referred to by Mesopotamians as Meluha.


Interestingly, mel in Tamil refers to woman, and also making moulds of wax for clay and perhaps metalwork, as well as the spreading of cow-dung over land.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Most probably Meluha is 'Malwa' (Prosperous region). We have two Malwas in India.
Punjab: South of River Sutlej and North of River Ghaggar.
Madhya Pradesh: North-western part of the state.

 

[GoodAttention]

Most probably Meluha is 'Malwa' (Prosperous region). We have two Malwas in India.
Punjab: South of River Sutlej and North of River Ghaggar.
Madhya Pradesh: North-western part of the state.

View attachment 99060

Not according to Wikipedia.

Malwa (Punjab) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The name comes from the Malavas tribe, present during Alexander the Great’s time. They are said to have migrated to Madhya Pradesh after the invasion.

There is also too much phonetic divergence from mel to mal, in addition to the time period being separated by 2-3000 years.

The Tamil translation provides more sense, I will give dictionary translations shortly.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Not according to Wikipedia.

Malwa (Punjab) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The name comes from the Malavas tribe, present during Alexander the Great’s time. They are said to have migrated to Madhya Pradesh after the invasion.

There is also too much phonetic divergence from mel to mal, in addition to the time period being separated by 2-3000 years.
The Tamil translation provides more sense, I will give dictionary translations shortly.

Those who lived in Malwa will naturally be termed as 'Malavya' in Sanskrit, like the word pronounced with the palate is known as "Talavya'.
The word used in Gulf countries in ancient times was not 'Mel', but 'Meluhha'.

"Meluḫḫa or Melukhkha (Sumerian: Me-luḫ-ḫaKI) is the Sumerian name of a prominent trading partner of Sumer during the Middle Bronze Age. Its identification remains an open question, but most scholars associate it with the Indus Valley Civilisation."

Meluhha - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Don't treat history as your hand-maiden.

 

[River Sea]

I generally disagree with Michael Witzel. Not just Afghanistan, you could say that about Central Asia too: Why was turtle important for them? I do not know the answer.
The Mohenjodaro skeletons do not show any evidence of violence. Infectious disease is a possibility. I do not agree with Appalachian University article.
You be happy with Jhunjhunwala. For me he is a big fake.

That website wasn't from @Bharat Jhunjhunwala
That website was from @blü 2

This may appeal to you then: >ScienceDaily: Your source for the latest research news<

@blü 2 showed the ScienceDaily website because I thought it was interesting about icy moons.

From there I typed in Indus Valley.

From there was a website that was full of errors.

From there, you @Aupmanyav blamed @Bharat Jhunjhunwala.

The discussion could have been this

The Mohenjodaro skeletons do not show any evidence of violence. Infectious disease is a possibility. I do not agree with the Appalachian University article.

My response could have been this.

Oh, so the Mohenjodaro skeletons do not show any evidence of violence. Infectious disease is a possibility.

Then others could have joined in the discussion about the Mohenjo-Daro skeletons.

Then I and others could had learn more about the MohenjoDaro skeletons

So perhaps I should apologies to you @blü 2

@blü 2
Thank you for the website as I did write, that's interesting about the icy moons

And my apologies to you @Bharat Jhunjhunwala about look at the website that @blü 2 shown when discussing about tectonics.

Never heard of this before icy moons

Planetary tectonics​

[edit]
Techniques used in the analysis of tectonics on Earth have also been applied to the study of the planets and their moons, especially icy moons.[3]

My apologies to @GoodAttention for bringing up about Tamil. Even though you @GoodAttention research, similarly to @Bharat Jhunjhunwala researching. Both @GoodAttention and @Bharat Jhunjhunwala researches,

I'm sorry
My apologies

 

[GoodAttention]

Those who lived in Malwa will naturally be termed as 'Malavya' in Sanskrit, in the word pronounced with the palate is known as "Tal;avya'.
The word used in Gulf countries in ancient times was not 'Mel', but 'Meluhha'.

"Meluḫḫa or Melukhkha (Sumerian: Me-luḫ-ḫaKI) is the Sumerian name of a prominent trading partner of Sumer during the Middle Bronze Age. Its identification remains an open question, but most scholars associate it with the Indus Valley Civilisation."

Meluhha - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Your same source provides a Tamil translation using melu to mean raised and akam meaning place from one source.

I divide it as mel, then ur, then aka, meaning from peoples and not a specific place.

Don't treat history as your hand-maiden.

I give my opinions and I provide reasoning for a history that is yet to be understood.

Truth will not stay buried forever.

Mleccha - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[River Sea]

Your same source provides a Tamil translation using melu to mean raised and akam meaning place from one source.

I divide it as mel, then ur, then aka, meaning from peoples and not a specific place.



I give my opinions and I provide reasoning for a history that is yet to be understood.

If anything I am treating history like a male miscreant that has been waiting a long time for a strict beating.

Truth will not stay buried forever.

Mleccha - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

My apologies to @GoodAttention for writing Tamil that brought you to research similar to @Bharat Jhunjhunwala researching

I met two researches name @GoodAttention and @Bharat Jhunjhunwala

I'm sorry
my apologies for having a conversation